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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
Okay. I have a very serious question. DO people all across the world need to know the difference between a carp and a swine ? I know what is a swine but I don't know what is a carp. And if I don't know what is a carp how am I supposed to figure out the correct idiom ? How do I eliminate "SUCH AS" ?
Can such terms be tested on GMAT ? Because it's difficult to know a name of a fish and other such animals/flowers which are probably found in Lake Michigan but not in other parts of the world. The other day I came across another question on GMAT club which include names of 2 rugby teams. In my country no-one follows rugby so it's really difficult to figure out the correct answer.

Please help chetan2u Magoosh VeritasKarishma ManhattanPrep GMATNinja
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
Okay. I have a very serious question. DO people all across the world need to know the difference between a carp and a swine ? I know what is a swine but I don't know what is a carp. And if I don't know what is a carp how am I supposed to figure out the correct idiom ? How do I eliminate "SUCH AS" ?
Can such terms be tested on GMAT ? Because it's difficult to know a name of a fish and other such animals/flowers which are probably found in Lake Michigan but not in other parts of the world. The other day I came across another question on GMAT club which include names of 2 rugby teams. In my country no-one follows rugby so it's really difficult to figure out the correct answer.

Please help chetan2u Magoosh VeritasKarishma ManhattanPrep GMATNinja generis
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
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TaizKaran wrote:
Okay. I have a very serious question. DO people all across the world need to know the difference between a carp and a swine ? I know what is a swine but I don't know what is a carp. And if I don't know what is a carp how am I supposed to figure out the correct idiom ? How do I eliminate "SUCH AS" ?
Can such terms be tested on GMAT ? Because it's difficult to know a name of a fish and other such animals/flowers which are probably found in Lake Michigan but not in other parts of the world. The other day I came across another question on GMAT club which include names of 2 rugby teams. In my country no-one follows rugby so it's really difficult to figure out the correct answer.

Please help chetan2u Magoosh VeritasKarishma ManhattanPrep GMATNinja generis



Hi,

I will not waste time on a question like this.
GMAT would often test you on topics in RC that one would never want to read in normal circumstances. But, GMAT will never expect you to know these terms and would ask you questions that are based on the flow of passage or that are based on the reasoning in the para.
You can expect the same case in SC too. If ever, it throws a word that’s alien to most of the text takers, you can be rest assured that the word will not have a direct or indirect role in eliminating some choice.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
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TaizKaran wrote:
Okay. I have a very serious question. DO people all across the world need to know the difference between a carp and a swine ? I know what is a swine but I don't know what is a carp. And if I don't know what is a carp how am I supposed to figure out the correct idiom ? How do I eliminate "SUCH AS" ?
Can such terms be tested on GMAT ? Because it's difficult to know a name of a fish and other such animals/flowers which are probably found in Lake Michigan but not in other parts of the world. The other day I came across another question on GMAT club which include names of 2 rugby teams. In my country no-one follows rugby so it's really difficult to figure out the correct answer.

Please help chetan2u Magoosh VeritasKarishma ManhattanPrep GMATNinja generis


Certainly, one would never ever need to know such a thing for the GMAT. However, as I noted above, I've spent a lot of time digging here, and I'm quite confident that one does not need to know what either feral swine or Asian carp are in order to answer this question. Thus, after quite a lot of review, I think this question is fine and valid.

Whatever they are, it is not possible for Asian carp to be an example of feral swine "but far larger, [etc.]" -- how can I be simultaneously both (1) a swine and (2) far larger than a swine? It must be that these are different things, simply based on the way that the sentence sets up a contrast between them. Also, if you at least knew swine, then it's even clearer that carp cannot be swine "but far larger... and mounted on four legs" -- this paradoxically implies that swine don't have four legs!

Side note: It's amusing that you describe Asian carp as "a fish and other such animals/flowers which are probably found in Lake Michigan but not in other parts of the world" -- in fact, the point of this sentence is that Asian carp are an invasive species from Asia and not native to Lake Michigan. That's neither here nor there, of course, but it is worth noting that this question is not aiming to favor, say, Michigan residents' knowledge of local fauna.

I don't know the rugby question you mention, but I also doubt it hinges on being an expert on the subject or knowing team names.

Please see my prior comment in this thread for my fuller analysis of the answer choices. Also take a look at my video on The Intersection of Meaning and Grammar for another version of my thoughts on this question (beginning around the 34:30 mark).

Originally posted by AnthonyRitz on 13 Jun 2020, 14:33.
Last edited by AnthonyRitz on 29 Jun 2020, 11:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
sayantanc2k wrote:
razelle wrote:
Please explain how to get to the correct answer for the below question:
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome ??? such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.
A)such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
B)like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
C)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
D)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
E)such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA


"Asian carp" is not an example of "feral swine". Hence A and E can be eliminated ("such as" is used to introduce examples). It is meant that "Asian carp" is similar to "feral swine". Hence "like" is correct. B, C and D remain.

Comma + conjunction is used to introduce a clause - therefore ", but" must have been followed by a subject and a verb ("that are", not just "are"). Hence C can be eliminated. B and D remain.

The past perfect "have threatened" is wrong. The "threatening" is not an action that has been completed in the past, but whose effect is stil there. Henec B is wrong. D remains.


aren't we comparing"unwelcome" to asian carp.?? How to resolve this ambiguity?
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
Gauravvinod92 wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
razelle wrote:
Please explain how to get to the correct answer for the below question:
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome ??? such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.
A)such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
B)like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
C)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
D)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
E)such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA


"Asian carp" is not an example of "feral swine". Hence A and E can be eliminated ("such as" is used to introduce examples). It is meant that "Asian carp" is similar to "feral swine". Hence "like" is correct. B, C and D remain.

Comma + conjunction is used to introduce a clause - therefore ", but" must have been followed by a subject and a verb ("that are", not just "are"). Hence C can be eliminated. B and D remain.

The past perfect "have threatened" is wrong. The "threatening" is not an action that has been completed in the past, but whose effect is stil there. Henec B is wrong. D remains.


aren't we comparing"unwelcome" to asian carp.?? How to resolve this ambiguity?


"unwelcome" is an adjective. "Asian carp" is a noun phrase. There's no basis to think that these elements are parallel, nor that they are being compared.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome — such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.

(A) such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
Such as is used to give examples but in this sentence we are comparing the two subjects hence like is more appropriate.

(B) like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
Carp is not an entity that can threaten or announce to threathen.

(C) like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
More vicious is missing are.

(D) like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
But far larger is missing the verb are.

(E) such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
Such as is used to give examples but in this sentence we are comparing the two subjects hence like is more appropriate.
Answer id D
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
@Egmat- kindly provide explanation for this question as like cannot be used in clause.

Posted from my mobile device

Originally posted by Varunsawhney8 on 04 Jul 2020, 10:19.
Last edited by Varunsawhney8 on 05 Jul 2020, 00:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
sayantanc2k wrote:
razelle wrote:
Please explain how to get to the correct answer for the below question:
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome ??? such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.
A)such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
B)like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
C)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
D)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
E)such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA


"Asian carp" is not an example of "feral swine". Hence A and E can be eliminated ("such as" is used to introduce examples). It is meant that "Asian carp" is similar to "feral swine". Hence "like" is correct. B, C and D remain.

Comma + conjunction is used to introduce a clause - therefore ", but" must have been followed by a subject and a verb ("that are", not just "are"). Hence C can be eliminated. B and D remain.

The past perfect "have threatened" is wrong. The "threatening" is not an action that has been completed in the past, but whose effect is stil there. Henec B is wrong. D remains.


Hi,
D also has ,but then how it is different from C. Can you please explain?
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
Hi Experts,

I need some clarification with respect to option D. I feel that "are" should also be present immediately before "far larger". It would be great if you could clear this confusion.
I am also not being able to determine whether Asian carp is used as an example of feral swine or is just used for comparison.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
What's the difference between Present perfect "have threatened" and present continuous "are threatening"? "Have" means something which started in the past and continued till the present, whereas present continuous means something which started in the present in present and will continue in the future.

In the is sentence "agreement" started in the past and continued in till present in is presented in (B), but "D" "are threatening" means it has started now only.

Then why (B) is wrong?
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
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lakshya14 wrote:
What's the difference between Present perfect "have threatened" and present continuous "are threatening"? "Have" means something which started in the past and continued till the present, whereas present continuous means something which started in the present in present and will continue in the future.

In the is sentence "agreement" started in the past and continued in till present in is presented in (B), but "D" "are threatening" means it has started now only.

Then why (B) is wrong?


Hi Lakshya

You have got the application of the present perfect form absolutely right - "have threatened" means the threat was made in the past and is still valid. However, your interpretation of the present continuous form is incorrect.

A present continuous form only means that the action is ongoing at present - it does not tell us anything about when it started. For example:

He is running.

This only means that the action of running is happening at the present moment. The running might have started 10 hours ago, 2 hours ago or right this instant - the word "running" does not tell us anything about when it started.

Similarly, "are threatening" only means the threat is happening now and not necessarily that it started in the past.

The only difference between options (B) and (D) is that (B) uses the present perfect + noun ("have threatened an invasion") whereas (B) uses present continuous + verb ("are threatening to invade"). Personally, I don't find anything wrong with either usage. There are, however, other problems with both options with respect to parallelism and modifiers. Refer to the posts by daagh and GMATNinja on this. Overall, this is a poor question and I would recommend that you ignore it.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
How am I going to know whether Asian carp is same as swine or not. For all I know I would think both are pigs and hence an example is justified. AnthonyRitz Experts


sayantanc2k wrote:
Ayush Mishra wrote:
hii,
Although going through all post ,I understood structure of the sentence but still I am unable to get the meaning of the sentence .Pls help


The meaning is as follows:

The following is generally agreed:
Feral swine are unwelcome because they are similar to Asian carp that are threatening to invade lake Michigan. However the difference between those Asian carp and Feral swine are as follows:
Feral swine are larger and more vicious, and they have 4 legs.

Compare with the following simpler construction:
I am like my brother, but more intelligent and less healthy.


Posted from my mobile device
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
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ag153 wrote:
How am I going to know whether Asian carp is same as swine or not. For all I know I would think both are pigs and hence an example is justified. AnthonyRitz Experts


Okay, but how could carp be simultaneously both (1) a type of swine and (2) "far larger" and "more vicious" than swine? Logically, even if I know nothing about carp and swine, this sentence draws a contrast that could not make sense if one was a type of the other.

Like imagine I said "I am better at the GMAT than human beings are." You'd have some serious concerns about me, and not just about my arrogance, right? Like, about the fact that apparently I don't consider myself to be human. And if I said "I am a human being, but better at the GMAT than human beings are," then you're just presumably confused at the contradiction.

Compare, among several official examples, this question:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/unearthed-in ... 04114.html
Here, it is illogical nonsense when the wrong answers discuss "evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered" -- since the evidence in question is itself evidence that has been discovered.

Does that help?
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
sayantanc2k wrote:
razelle wrote:
Please explain how to get to the correct answer for the below question:
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome ??? such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.
A)such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
B)like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
C)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
D)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
E)such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA


"Asian carp" is not an example of "feral swine". Hence A and E can be eliminated ("such as" is used to introduce examples). It is meant that "Asian carp" is similar to "feral swine". Hence "like" is correct. B, C and D remain.

Comma + conjunction is used to introduce a clause - therefore ", but" must have been followed by a subject and a verb ("that are", not just "are"). Hence C can be eliminated. B and D remain.

The past perfect "have threatened" is wrong. The "threatening" is not an action that has been completed in the past, but whose effect is stil there. Henec B is wrong. D remains.


I agree with all the reason for why option (D) is supposed to be correct, but regarding the explaination for option (C)

Paris75 wrote:
For non-native speaker, this one is really hard. First, what is carp? and second: is it a swine?
In order to kick out such as or like, you are quite stuck...

nevertheless, I have a question here:

Why chose D over C? because for me C has a better comparison: Zombies are funny but ARE dead

Can somone explain here plz?

Thanks


As per the above quote, is it mandatory for a Comma + conjunction to always introduce a subject? - (the above example)

Kindly please help me clarify the above discrepancy

Sajjad1994 sayantanc2k egmat KarishmaB
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
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nayas96 wrote:
As per the above quote, is it mandatory for a Comma + conjunction to always introduce a subject? - (the above example)

Kindly please help me clarify the above discrepancy


Not strictly speaking, no. Comma + conjunction usually introduces an independent clause, but there are some exceptions. These exceptions sadly include style commas, which can be included just to help the flow of a sentence, so it is generally not advisable to eliminate an answer on this basis.

As for C, it's wrong because it describes the carp as being large, vicious, and four-legged, and swine as not being those things, which is logically insane if you know what carp and swine are.

But C is also wrong because the phrase "are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted" is a list that fails parallelism: The verb "are" is present in the first and third elements but not the second.
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Re: There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome such as [#permalink]
Expert Reply
nayas96 wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
razelle wrote:
Please explain how to get to the correct answer for the below question:
There is generally agreement that feral swine are unwelcome ??? such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs.
A)such as the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but that are far larger, more vicious and mounted on four legs
B)like the Asian carp that have threatened an invasion of Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
C)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger, more vicious, and are mounted on four legs
D)like the Asian carp that are threatening to invade Lake Michigan, but far larger, more vicious, and mounted on four legs
E)such as the Asian carp that threaten to invade Lake Michigan, but are far larger and more vicious, and mounted on four legs
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA


"Asian carp" is not an example of "feral swine". Hence A and E can be eliminated ("such as" is used to introduce examples). It is meant that "Asian carp" is similar to "feral swine". Hence "like" is correct. B, C and D remain.

Comma + conjunction is used to introduce a clause - therefore ", but" must have been followed by a subject and a verb ("that are", not just "are"). Hence C can be eliminated. B and D remain.

The past perfect "have threatened" is wrong. The "threatening" is not an action that has been completed in the past, but whose effect is stil there. Henec B is wrong. D remains.


I agree with all the reason for why option (D) is supposed to be correct, but regarding the explaination for option (C)

Paris75 wrote:
For non-native speaker, this one is really hard. First, what is carp? and second: is it a swine?
In order to kick out such as or like, you are quite stuck...

nevertheless, I have a question here:

Why chose D over C? because for me C has a better comparison: Zombies are funny but ARE dead

Can somone explain here plz?

Thanks


As per the above quote, is it mandatory for a Comma + conjunction to always introduce a subject? - (the above example)

Kindly please help me clarify the above discrepancy

Sajjad1994 sayantanc2k egmat KarishmaB


Hello nayas96,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, the "comma + conjunction" construction is used to introduce the last element of a list with more than two elements, and to join two independent clauses; although such clauses tend to begin with their subject, the "comma + conjunction" construction need not be followed by the subject.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
GMAT Club Bot
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