Darden ($$$) or Columbia ($)

Question

Looking to get some outside help on a decision I've been struggling with.

My post MBA goal is consulting with MBB in either DC or NY. I already have substantial student loan debt due to previous poor decision-making. Darden has offered me a full tuition scholarship and Columbia has offered me $30K, but only for my first year. What would you choose if you were in my position and why?

Kelzie01 · Answer

I have what seems to be the minority opinion in these type of questions. I'd go with the full ride over the marginally better school. You have debt already. You know how much it sucks. Columbia would what, double it? At least? I have half the debt you'll wind up with from Columbia and I'm somewhat close to the starting salary already. And it looks fine on paper but you toss in a mortgage, a car payment, and a couple kids in daycare and those monthly loan payments really suck.

Plus I saw some study someone else posted that people who are ACCEPTED to the good schools but don't go are just as successful as those that do attend. Which kinda makes sense. If you have the drive and ability to get accepted at a great school, you're going to do just fine even if you end up attending a school with a marginally lower rating.

Anyway, my $.02. I haven't even applied to any school yet so keep that in mind!

pate13 · Answer

First off, congratulations. Getting in to either of those schools is not easy. I have the same aspirations as you (MBB in NYC). Based upon your career aspirations, I would choose Columbia.

Best of luck.

DCTech87 · Answer

Previous poor decision making is going to make this next decision tough, but you're in a good place

. I never liked the advice of "it's a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things" - those people must already have an awfully large bucket or have no idea what they're talking about. Having said that - CBS will offer you the key to more cities, locations and general optionality than Darden. Darden is a great school and Charlottesville is AMAZING, but you're more likely to chase the MBB to ATL from Charlottesville than DC, and NYC is definitely tough. Something that's underrated - what your friends from your MBA go on to do is also an incredibly important asset and will help you 1,5,10 years out, which to me was also worth the premium. Finally I can't speak to Darden's 2015 class, but I can say I work for an MBB and our class probably just out of chance doesn't at the moment have representation from Darden, but I"m not in DC (or the SE). If the money scares you, that's not just understandable but logical. But in similar shoes a while back I took the risk and knew I'd come out well, and I have no regrets.

Mo2men · Answer

Congrats.

It is really tough decision because of your debt. You are the only one who knows how much are the previous debt and how to recover it. I can't deny CBS is great and maybe on long run will be more beneficial but Darden not that far in quality and options. Also, do not forget the cost of living in NY compared to Charlottesville.

I'd like to highlight anther issue not to make you afraid but to make you aware. When you attend CBS, you maybe unconsciously rushed into networking an d spend time to get job. It may leads to imbalance between concentration on getting the value or courses and finding a job to secure your MBB goal. This could weaken you in interviews and cause to overlook other options that may pop up.

There was a great discussion about Darden on the following link with great data about MBB
tuck-vs-darden-212158.html

Again, this is my view. Although CBS is great, I'm leaning towards Darden in your case.

Flyte · Answer

Take CBS, it is a better program, places better into MBB than Darden, and uniquely offers you the opportunity to do term time internships. The latter is invaluable for career switchers.

DCTech87 · Answer

I'd agree that you'd certainly save money in Charlottesville, and with the DC offices there is a clear path to MBB (plus with McK and BCG, you'll probably end up in NYC a ton anyways). The second paragraph seems like a bit of ungrounded conjecture... I didn't recruit 1st year, worked in startups and cleantech, and recruiting 2nd year without a problem. It's pretty easy to avoid the standard recruiting cycle at any school (it sounds like you're into MBB though and they recruit at every school at pretty much the same time, so it's also easy to get your feet up early during the program).

Mo2men · Answer

Maybe I was not clear enough. Because s/he may be burdened with debt, s/he would like to secure an internship early in hope to get an offer (although nothing guaranteed in internship). The goal to get an offer with high pay to afford debt as much as s/he could put anyone under stress and miss good opportunity. In normal situation, I would agree with you. Nothing to be worried if anyone miss any recruitment cycle. Going to Darden may reliefe stresses and make him/her enjoy the program. It all depends on the personality.

DCTech87 · Answer

I get what you're saying now. I read "When you attend CBS, you maybe unconsciously rushed into networking and spend time to get job" as specifically CBS will rush you into a job, not increased amounts of debt resulting from attending XXX school without scholarship will make you feel rushed to get a job. Debt definitely isn't a throw away issue. I think we'd agree - figure out which one puts s/he in the best position to succeed long term at what s/he wants, use debt as a lever to push you one way or the other. If NY/Rest of Country,stronger marionette system, and wider set of options for interning while studying matter, it's NY. If MBB general with minimal debt is what matters, Darden gives you a pretty clear route to DC/ATL/Charlotte.

undecidedadmit99 · Answer

I really appreciate the responses thus far. A few other considerations:

1) A point in favor of Columbia is that because of the ability to take on academic year internships, I think I have a better shot at setting up my post MBB exit opportunity.

2) A point in favor of UVA is that it's a small campus and I do think I would probably be able to get more out of my education there without time lost in my day to commuting (I have a sense of where I would likely live if I attend CBS and the commute will not be ideal). I've read some of the articles online, but  DCTech87  it would be helpful if you could shed some light on what the "typical" day as a CBS student is like.

DCTech87 · Answer

You'd get more out of "maximizing your academics" deciding whether the case method is better for you than worrying about a day in the life. From what I understand the basics are pretty much identical (skyscappers and Jeffersonian Architecture excluded) - on campus early with split cohorts/clusters defining your class flow early on, more personal choice as you progress/exempt coursework. No day is the same - classes, club meetings, company presentations, always a ton of social events, speaker series, debates or guest conferences, amazing parties and fun weekend trips if you feel inclined/can afford it.

As a UVA undergrad - no one lives on campus, but there is a strong community for sure among all the programs there. As a CBS alum - I can say I got a lot more out of my education, but I think that's the nature of personal experience and classmates with real world experience (I imagine Darden is not that different). Rent was more expensive, the social playground was a lot bigger and much more fun, the city itself is just a much more worldly place, but everyone is on campus during the week for classes, clubs, evening events (receptions, parties after, etc.). Everyone goes to the same events, birthday parties, school sponsored functions, etc. Preppy v. NY style, countryside v. City.

In the end, you're riding a 20 minute bus or driving to campus at Darden, or a 20 minute subway ride in Manhattan (I walked 10 minutes, you can live a few blocks off from campus in townhouses off the river which is awesome). You're in a bubble in any school, with community more or less forced on you by your surrounds.

DCTech87 · Answer

You'd get more out of "maximizing your academics" deciding whether the case method is better for you than worrying about a day in the life. From what I understand the basics are pretty much identical (skyscappers and Jeffersonian Architecture excluded) - on campus early with split cohorts/clusters defining your class flow early on, more personal choice as you progress/exempt coursework. No day is the same - classes, club meetings, company presentations, always a ton of social events, speaker series, debates or guest conferences, amazing parties and fun weekend trips if you feel inclined/can afford it.

As a UVA undergrad - no one lives on campus, but there is a strong community for sure among all the programs there. As a CBS alum - I can say I got a lot more out of my education, but I think that's the nature of personal experience and classmates with real world experience (I imagine Darden is not that different). Rent was more expensive, the social playground was a lot bigger and much more fun, the city itself is just a much more worldly place, but everyone is on campus during the week for classes, clubs, evening events (receptions, parties after, etc.). Everyone goes to the same events, birthday parties, school sponsored functions, etc. Preppy v. NY style, countryside v. City.

In the end, you're riding a 20 minute bus or driving to campus at Darden, or a 20 minute subway ride in Manhattan (I walked 10 minutes, you can live a few blocks off from campus in townhouses off the river which is awesome). You're in a bubble in any school, with community more or less forced on you by your surrounds.

Mo2men · Answer

Hi DCTech87,

I know that CBS is planning to open new magnificent stat-of-the-art facilities.

Do you know when CBS are going to open them for MBA students?

DCTech87 · Answer

Ha they've been saying it's five years away since before the recession. The overall university is expanding to a bunch of new facilities in Manhattanville, and CBS is waiting in line when it comes to getting the new building. They need to do it because frankly it's a rankings gimmick that other schools have used to their advantage, but I have no idea when it'll actually open. When I left they had just finished digging out the foundation if that tells you anything.

Darden ($$$) or Columbia ($)

Darden with full tuition for both years or Columbia with $30K for first year?

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