Anderson ($$$$) vs Haas ($$) for general entrepreneurship

Question

Hey there everybody! I have been super fortunate and been admitted to 2 amazing schools, UCLA Anderson and Berkeley Haas, both for the FTMBA programs. They have given me a generous full scholarship at the former and a partial scholarship at the latter. I am struggling to make a decision... It's a wonderful struggle to have, but it is nonetheless a struggle! Here's my quick bio: - Italian working in my family business in Italy, not certain about when I will return (right after MBA, a couple years after, further down the line). - I am not overly concerned about traditional recruiting, I am not looking to follow a consulting or IB path. I want to either start my own thing, collaborate with others in starting something, work in a small and growing project, and/or expand my family's operations into different sectors and geographies. - Location-wise, if I were to stay some time in the US after my MBA, California would be my number 1 choice; preferring the LA area over the Bay Area, but happy in both. My image of the schools (with many "?" included

) is: Anderson: - Overall it could be a more enriching experience, being in a bustling city such as LA. Experiential learning opportunities seem more abundant? - There appears to be a more diverse (backgrounds, career paths, personality types) mix of students? People seem to be super smart, but perhaps not as intellectually "bright" (Haas is simply outstanding at this) but maybe more...interesting? - Also, people maybe are more fun? I feel as though the social scene at Haas is more quiet and quirky (not criticizing, just perhaps not what I would like most for my experience) - Career paths may be broader (vs Tech and Silicon Valley) and more people without a clear defined path (explorers) - Much better weather, dating scene (not decisive factors, but they do make the experience nicer) + LA with an extra $70k... Haas: - Much stronger brand, specially internationally (UC Berkeley is extremely well known around here, UCLA not so much). Even if I am not looking to work at a large firm, the brand accompanies you your whole life and will come handy in many occasions. - I think there are more Haasies around Europe than Andersons. - Peers will most likely be intellectually brighter. - Probably more people going into starting their own ventures, better access to interning / joining ft start-ups. - Quality of the academics will probably be incredibly good, more so than at Anderson. - I don't want the opinion of others be determining for me, but just about everyone sees Haas as an obvious - not even close - choice vs Anderson. - People seem to be less of the "let's go to a bar and have a few beers" type and more of the hiking and bbq type (not saying I want the full-on alcohol fused MBA experience, but I do enjoy bars and I want to be out and about meeting people - incl. non-MBAs) - Politics seem to be a big thing there (I really dislike and avoid all things politics). - Berkeley itself seems to be somewhat a boring town? (Surprised, considering there's around 40k students attending the university) And Haasies don't go to SF that much (according to the ones I've spoken to). TL;DR: I feel Anderson might be more fun, the people more interesting on a personal level, and the access to the outside community easier and better. Haas enjoys an undoubtedly stronger name (and selectivity) and that will surely reflect a stronger program and more intellectually bright peers, and that brand is something I'll carry my whole life. I seem to have created an image of the type of people at each school that I don't know if it's accurate. I think fit is the #1 factor for me to decide a school, so I would immensely appreciate any input you can provide here.

Thanks a lot GMAT Clubbers!

mperalta · Answer

C'mon guys, show a brother some love

Fellow clubber struggling here Posted from my mobile device

BananaNation · Answer

Hey  mperalta , happy to give you some insights about Haas.

First, want to say that you can certainly negotiate with Haas on your scholarship and leverage Anderson's full ride.

Now to address some of your issues and preceptions about Haas:
 - Much stronger brand, specially internationally (not sure why, but UC Berkeley is extremely well known around here, UCLA not so much). Even if I am not looking to work at a large firm, the brand accompanies you your whole life and will come handy in many occasions. 
Generally yes, Berkeley will be better known brand around Europe.

- I think there are more Haasies around Europe than Andersons. 
There are definitely a lot of Berkeley grads in Europe, but not sure about Haas specifically.

- Peers will most likely be intellectually brighter. 
The majority of people in top business schools are smart and I wouldn't worry about the caliber of people regardless of whether you end up at Haas or Anderson.

- Probably more people going into starting their own ventures, better access to interning / joining ft start-ups. 
100%, Haas and overall Berkeley has so many accelerators and programs that help you launch your company that I cannot even name all of them. A lot of my classmates are starting their own businesses and they are doing pretty well. Another advantage is Berkeley itself, you can recruit undergrads who are probably some of the smartest people I ever met (especially those studying computer science)

- Quality of the academics will probably be incredibly good, more so than at Anderson. 
Haas definitely has good academics, all of our exchange students (specifically LBS and CBS) definitely noted this in the past.

- People seem to be less of the "let's go to a bar and have a few beers" type and more of the hiking and bbq type (not saying I want the full-on alcohol fused MBA experience, but I do enjoy bars and I want to be out and about meeting people - incl. non-MBAs) 
Definitely not true, hiking and bbq have dominated during the pandemic only, for obvious reasons. During normal times (which I hope will resume in August) there is bar of the week every Thursday and we used to go out for drinks, live concerts, night outs in SF etc. very often. People here certainly know how to party and have fun, I wouldn't even worry about this part.

- Politics seem to be a big thing there (I really dislike and avoid all things politics). 
Not going to lie, people in Berkeley love politics. I am in the same boat as you, I hate constant, extreme, one-sided political discussions that a certain small group of our classmates engages in. 90% of my classmates absolutely hate those discussions too and are here to enjoy, so we learned to ignore politics and just enjoy our life.

- Berkeley itself seems to be somewhat a boring town? (Surprised, considering there's around 40k students attending the university) And Haasies don't go to SF that much (according to the ones I've spoken to). 
Berkeley is a student town, so don't expect anything fancy here. With that said, we are having a lot of fun here even during the lockdown. As for SF, we used to go there pretty often before the lockdown for concerts, night outs etc.

DM me and I would be more than happy to jump on a quick call or connect you with others at Haas so you can get a proper picture of our school.

variantguy · Answer

Hi, congratulations on your admits! I'm matriculating at Haas this fall and can speak a bit to the consideration points that you've listed in your post (feel free to take it with a pinch of salt

). I think Berkeley, while not comparable to LA, has a rich history and culture. It's one of the most progressive cities in the country and has enviable landscapes and weather. The nightlife won't be as glamorous as LA, but SF is a short ride away, and students kind of get the best of both living in a college town and close to a big city. The diversity that I have observed in the incoming class so far at Haas makes me very excited, no matter which lens of diversity you apply. There are people from all parts of the world, including non-feeder countries like Kuwait, Cyprus, Iran, Israel, Malaysia, and smaller ones in Africa and Latin America; there are people who identify across the gender/sexuality spectrum; there are people who want to pursue a wide array of goals (though tech seems to be a common theme, people have their own inspiring ideas of using tech as an enabler in transforming XYZ industries). I've found many interesting people who are not coming to business school just to get a high-paying job (at least so far) and have high ambition and aspirations of driving a positive impact in the world. I'd urge you to interact in the Slack channel and I'm sure you'll find people you can vibe with. I think there are all kinds of people at all schools, and again, I'm certain that you'll find a group of like-minded people if you go out and interact. Without taking anything away from UCLA, I think it's difficult to imagine that UCLA will open any door that Haas wouldn't, except maybe some companies in media and entertainment (which anyway doesn't seem to be your target industry and also as an international, you would run into visa issues with those companies). FYI, UCLA sends a higher % of its class into tech than Haas. And as I mentioned above, many incoming students whom I've interacted with are coming in with non-traditional career goals post-MBA, especially because they want to either focus on entrepreneurship or are very specific about themes vs. industries/roles (sustainability, social impact, DEI, education, financial inclusion, etc.) Can't speak for the dating scene but I think you'd be splitting hairs comparing Berkeley and LA weather and outdoorsy scenes.

The money is definitely a huge advantage though! I think you have formed an image that seems to overvalue UCLA's culture and fit and undervalue that of Haas. Perhaps this is because subconsciously, the full-ride at UCLA appeals more to you (and nothing wrong with that), or it could be that you haven't had enough first-hand interactions with Haasies. If it's the former, you should take UCLA and not look back. But if it's the latter, then I'd urge you to connect with more people in Slack and also attend the upcoming admit weekend. It may or may not change your final decision, but I'm certain it will change your image of Haas' culture and community.

I think BananaNation has already done a fantastic job of replying to your pointers about Haas, and if I were to answer those I'd just be repeating what has been said already. Good luck with your decision-making, and feel free to DM me if you'd like to get on Zoom/call and talk through your thought process.

mperalta · Answer

Wow, BananaNation and variantguy . Amazing responses and great insights. Thanks a LOT for giving such a thorough and understanding answer

Still struggling to decide, but much more comfortable with Haas after hearing from you guys. (Will DM you for sure though!). Any Anderson gmat-clubber who could provide some perspective from their side? Posted from my mobile device

dagoberto · Answer

mperalta  Benvenuto a Haas.

I won’t repeat  BananaNation  posts since he is spot on. I think I can provide some insight, went to UCLA for undergrad and MBA at Haas. I love both schools (except 🏀 go BruWINS).

Both campuses are bellas, probably an advantage of Haas is that it’s easier to break into MBB and PM roles. Also both schools have smart kids, one difference would be the pedigree of pre-MBA experience. At Haas You get a lot of MBB folks that want to pivot to FAANG roles, Andersono has More Big4.

Andersono is a more beautiful campus.
Andersono has a better career center
Haas (and Berkeley as a whole) has more resources for entrepreneurship.

Let me let u in on a big secret, academics don’t matter, my STEM undergrad at UCLA was more rigorous than either school. Yes Andersono is probably more into party scene, Haas has different levels to turn loco, I prefer a hike over a party. But there are plenty of people that prefer the inverse.

I actually got more dinero at Haas, so for me it was an easy decision. If the money were equal, I would still go to Haas. Given your situation, I actually don’t know what I would do, so keep us updated.

mperalta   BananaNation  you both don’t enjoy politics? shame on you!!! No soup for you 🤣🤪

If liberal politicics are your thing, this is the perfect echo chamber, however please note that both Haas and Berkeley Law are not as Liberal as other grad programs. The rest of the school views us as greedy capitalist

Posted from my mobile device

Regenerate · Answer

As a guy who's spent most of the last 25+ years in startup / small / mid-sized business dealing with owners / investors / management teams ... every penny you don't have to invest in getting your MBA is another penny you can invest in your business to (i) increase the odds its successful and (ii) increase the % of the company you can retain if it all goes well. I voted for Anderson. PS -- Haas will be awesome for tech entrepreneurship ... however ... there are a bajillion other things to start-up and grow besides another app company.

PPS -- I was FLOORED when the ADCOM's for Anderson's EMBA program told me there is more manufacturing businesses per-capita in Los Angeles than any other city in the US!

mperalta · Answer

dagoberto , Regenerate Great insights, thanks!

It's 50-50 at the moment, I think that's the only balanced Anderson vs Haas polling I've seen (almost always Haas comes out much more voted, even when there are scholarships at stake). I'd love to get some insights from some gmat-clubbers with personal experience who could comment on this too. No Andersonians have commented yet! Would love seeing your side of the story! Thanks guys

bb · Answer

Hi. I remember this topic and I remember seeing some heavy hitters reply to your question and not seeing a lot of value I could add, I moved on to a different topic. but I will gladly share my thoughts. Though instead of taking the usual approach, I’ll take the approach of a devils advocate and tell you what do you all miss out on in case you choose to attend Anderson.

First of all, Berkeley has traditionally been at spot seven in the US news rankings. Anderson is spot 15. That’s a pretty big difference. There’s not as much difference between spot 25 and 35 or 45 and 65 but 7 and 15 are a meaningful difference. You can take a look at my post about the value of a top 10 MBA That outlines what you can expect in terms of different experience as you get into a higher ranked program.

You should be prepared to spend a decent amount of time in the car in Los Angeles. I’m not sure if you have visited but it’s a pretty spread out place. Many students are concentrated around Brentwood and live in Santa Monica or West LA but anything in LA requires 45 minutes of driving and living without a car is pretty tough. I think Uber has definitely made it more feasible to be without a car but it’s still frustrating. There’s definitely nightlife in Santa Monica and West LA but all the best clubs and party places tend to be in Hollywood and that’s 45 minutes as I mentioned 😉. If you don’t have issues with owning a car and driving and things like that, which is pretty easy by the way in the United States and is nothing like driving in Europe or Italy 😂, then you would be fairly happy with Anderson. You’ll get a good mix of party guys in serious guys and hustlers and a few east coast or military suit and tie folks.

It sounds like You’re more focused on experience rather than recruiting. 90% of people here are focused on recruiting and that should be the way really for them. Your situation seems to be different. I think in terms of glamour and quality of life and excitement factor, away probably trumps bay area. Mostly because it’s so huge whereas San Francisco is very condensed and Berkeley is pretty small too. I think weather is very comparable by the way.

I would say if you’re not looking to network in tech or if you’re not looking for VC or start up environment, you won’t lose much going to Anderson. Your classmates will be a bit less competitive and you would have few were on campus recruiting opportunities which you don’t care about but in terms of transformative experience and your personal goals, you can definitely achieve that at the Anderson or even at Loyola Marymount University near the LAX. You will have ample opportunities to better yourself and to grow and to take leadership positions and be engaged and still have things left to do. I’m sure money helps as well and makes it more palatable with the folks financing your lifestyle for the next two years 😉 I don’t see any big mistakes you’ll be making by going to Anderson Because of your unique situation but there will be a collection of small things that will make a difference. There’s not much access to VC or entrepreneurship at the Andersen and you have a greater percentage of classmates who are there to have a good time as a post to focusing on their future career and if you try to recruit in Bay Area, you’ll have to work a lot harder to find opportunities. The best tech opportunities are in bay area close to start ups and central offices.

PS. I am a bit surprised and disappointed that we have not heard from anyone going to Anderson or already attending. Perhaps that is the final hint/sign 😂

Posted from my mobile device

mperalta · Answer

Thanks a lot for your thorough and spot on comments bb . Yes, there were some great insights provided by other gmatclubbers before (thx a lot!), but your addition is, nonetheless, super helpful. I've got one last issue I'd like to ask you about. Considering that the difference in academics is gonna be pretty much imperceivable (as least, that's my impression, correct me if I'm wrong please), it comes down to: - Recruiting opportunities (not an issue in my case) - Overall quality of the cohort (bright, engaged, interesting). Haas seems to have a slight edge here. - Focus of the school and of the cohort. Here's my question at the end of the msg. - Personal fit with the people and the place. Slightly more LA in my case - despite having to spend hours in a car, thank God for podcasts.

(There's brand recognition also, but in a non-recruiting-interested profile, between these two it doesn't seem differential; and alumni network). I'm a family business / small non-tech business profile, whose interest is mostly around growing and expanding a small business (non-tech), and entering into new ventures (undefined). I don't know if the focus and student profile of Anderson falls more into general management, less tech focused, more small business, with more family business people, whereas Haas (and Haasies) is overwhelmingly focused on tech and tech-supporting activities (also location centered around that vs LA where entrepreneurship outside tech might be more present). I don't know, do you think that regardless of that, the prestige, innovation and entrepreneurial mindset, purpose-driven and superbly bright cohort of Haas would better help the professional goals of someone in my position? Thanks a lot for your insights and help, I am seriously struggling and your comments are extremely helpful. If anyone else has an opinion, it'd be greatly appreciated! (Looking at you silent Andersons!) Posted from my mobile device

bb · Answer

Good to see you back!

I would say that MBA is a management degree whichever way you look at it. Tech PM jobs - that's product manager or program manager. The only reason it is a Tech job is because it is sexy, pays a lot, and that's where the jobs are. It could have been anything. MBA Teaches you how to deal with people, manage projects, prioritize, etc. etc. I would not say that it teaches you any specialized skills - e.g. programming, or others, though I did manage to take one class I thought it was going to kill me - it was an Excel modeling class. Was the second most useful class I took during my MBA and involved Visual Basic programming in excel... which I have not done in years now. My first most useful class was Business Law. It was awesome and very engaging. Case based and required lots of reading but it was worth it in the end. I digress. Sorry about that. The second most popular MBA job track is consulting - that's as vanilla general management as it gets. MBA is about management and congregating basic knowledge into a framework to solve complex issues regardless of the industry.

So I would not be worried about Haas being too techy per se. Your classmates may have worked at Google, FB, Netflix, MSFT, and Apple, or they may be looking to go there but it won't be any different from Anderson. All of those students would love to get those jobs too and many try for them in Bay Area.

However, if you are pushed more towards Anderson and that setting, your knowledge you take out of the program will be similar but not the same. A lot of your learning experience comes from interactions with students. Small groups, friends, partnerships you build. Your school curriculum may be very similar but professors will be slightly different and no way to tell which one will be better but the student-based learning likely be a notch higher in a Top 15 vs. a Top 10. program.... but your priorities may be slightly different. I would be careful about partying and focusing on that in LA perhaps too much. You definitely will have lots of opportunities for that but one can get carried away and lose track of time. Something to be sensitive to if you don't have good self-control.

Anderson ($$$$) vs Haas ($$) for general entrepreneurship

Which school do you think is a better fit?

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