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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella

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New post 19 Nov 2018, 04:36
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"comma+verbing" modify preceding action or present the result
for eg : I went to my school,riding my bicycle >> doer = I. action = went . modifier modifying action by telling us how I went.

How is "training" modifying "was influential" ??
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New post 05 Dec 2018, 17:50
Stella as an actress is one artist. Stella as a teacher of acting is one artist.
^ This makes sense to me.

One artist as an actress is Stella. One artist as a teacher of acting is Stella.
^ This doesn't make sense to me.

I may have oversimplified, but this is why I eliminated (D) and (E)

The distinction between actress and teacher of acting doesn't seem particularly important if the following clause is "Stella Adler trained several generations of actors". We may be interested in saying something about her experience in acting, but mentioning that she is a teacher of acting seems redundant.

This is why I eliminated (B) and (E)

The "who" in (A) has reference problems, so this can be eliminated.

We are left with (C)

As a side note, I don't see much wrong with any of the "includes" clauses so far. I may change my opinion on this later.
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New post 19 Jan 2019, 05:16
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Reposting the excellent question asked by gmatman1031 on our SC "ask me anything" discussion, just in case it helps somebody on this thread:

gmatman1031 wrote:
Hey Charles,

I'm reviewing the SC question found here about Stella Adler. And your analysis on this has been super helpful.

However, I have a concern about "include" vs "included" here. Wouldn't it better be to say "include" rather than "included" since these actors still are and will always be considered among the ranks of actors taught by Stella Adler?

I don't think it's enough to seriously call into question the validity of answer (C), but it's a small point that I've been curious about.

I end up thinking about this fairly often: it's often the case that multiple verb tenses would work in the same sentence, without really changing the meaning much. And I think this is one of those cases.

Here's a stripped-down version of the Stella Adler sentence, one in past tense, and one in present tense:

  • Stella Adler trained several generations of actors whose ranks included Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.
  • Stella Adler trained several generations of actors whose ranks include Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

I think you could argue that either one is fine. The training happened in the past, so it seems appropriate enough to say that the ranks included Brando and De Niro in the past tense. You could also argue that because the present tense just indicates a general characteristic, you could use the present tense here: the ranks of actors inherently include Brando and De Niro.

Honestly, I think past tense seems more reasonable here. For example, you probably wouldn't say something like "the ranks of dinosaurs include raptors and brontosauruses." That would be weird, since the dinosaurs are clearly dead. It wouldn't be WRONG, exactly, to use the present, but I think it would feel strange, and confuse the reader a little bit. ("Why is the author using present tense to talk about dinosaurs? OH CRAP!! Jurassic Park was a documentary?!?! It was REAL?! AAAAAAAAAAGH! We're all going to get chomped! I need to panic-eat ice cream. RIGHT NOW!")

But of course, the GMAT didn't actually make you choose between the past and present tenses in the Stella Adler question. (The present tense appears in (B), but that answer choice is horrendously wrong for other reasons.) And generally, the GMAT won't force you to choose between those two if there's any ambiguity whatsoever.

I hope this helps a bit! (And for anybody looking for a general treatment of GMAT verb tenses, check out this video.)
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New post 21 Jan 2019, 07:59
TommyWallach

TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

While you all got to the write answer here, there are a lot of mistakes made in the explanations that I'd like to correct.

49. As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.

The category of this question is MODIFIERS, which are responsible for almost every error. We can recognize this simply by reading the original sentence. First, it starts with a prepositional modifier (as an actress...), and then we'd notice the "who trained", which is a modifier opened with a relative pronoun. The most important rule to remember for modifiers is that noun modifiers need to touch the thing they're modifying.

a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: The first modifier is correct ("As an actress..." is touching "Stella Adler"). Unfortunately, the second modifier is incorrect. "Who trained several..." should be touching Stella Adler as well. Instead it's modifying "American theater", which doesn't make any sense.

b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include




Is the use of "whose ranks included" alright? Since it is a fact, shouldnt the correct version be like "whose ranks include"?
PROBLEM: The problem here is two-fold. First of all, our modifier gets odd here. If you take out the middle man "one of the most...", we end up with a sentence saying that "As an actress and a teacher of acting, Stella Adler trained several generations of actors." That doesn't make any sense. She only taught people as a teacher, not as an actress. Also, the "who include" is modifying incorrectly here.

Think about this sample sentence, "I have a lot of friends who include Dave and Jim." It sounds like my friends are including Dave and Jim (when they hang out together), rather than that Dave and Jim are two of my many friends.

c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included
ANSWER: This fixes both problems I discussed in B.


d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: First, the opening modifier "As an actress" needs to be modifying Stella Adler, but now it's modifying "one of the most influential artists...". The "including" is also problematic, like "include" in b.


e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
PROBLEM: Same as above in terms of modifier. Also makes the "trained" mistake that B made. The loss of the comma creates a lack of clarity, but NOT a run-on sentence (that's when you have independent clauses without a period or semicolon to separate them).

Hope that helps!

-tommy


In option (B), Is the version "whose ranks included" correct here? Since this is a fact, I thought the correct for, should be more like "whose ranks include".
Please help.
Thanks in advance
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Feb 2019, 14:27
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mikemcgarry wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included


I'm happy to respond. :-)

The first thing I'll say is --- after the long introductory phrase before the underlined part, it's very natural to expect the name right away. Choice (D) & (E) are awkward in that they delay the name even further. Stella Adler is the focus of the sentence, the star of this particular sentence, so we want to get to her. Just as it wouldn't make sense to have a 3 hour movie in which we meet the star of the movie only in the last 30 minutes, so it doesn't make sense for the subject & focus of a sentence to be unnecessarily buried further & further in the sentence. That's one problem with (D) & (E). We will reject both of those.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
Trainwreck modifier mistake!! The phrase beginning with "who" is an ordinary noun modifier, modifying the subject, Stella Adler. Noun modifiers much touch the noun they modifier. This is incorrect.

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
Most of this is good, until the end. We get a weird shift in verb tense in the final verb --- everything in the sentence is past tense until we get to present test "include." Why is this last verb in the present tense? That simply doesn't make sense with the rest of the sentence. This is incorrect.

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
Brilliant! I have to say, as someone who regularly writes GMAT SC practice questions, I am always impressed by the brilliance of the folks at GMAC. This one is 100% correct. Unlike the "who" modifier in (A), the "training" modifier is a little more flexible ---- it can be thought of as modifying the entire independent clause, so it doesn't need to "touch" anything. The truly brilliant part is --- the sentence creates the expectation that the underlined section would end:
... several generations of actors, including ...
That would have been perfectly correct. Of course, if we just replaced the active participle "including" with the passive participle "included", that would be entirely incorrect:
...several generations of actors, included ...
Instead, the folks at GMAC came up with this very clever alternative:
...several generations of actors whose ranks included...
This is different from what one might have expected, but it's 100% correct. Here, the word "included" is not a participle, but a full bonafide verb, the verb of the clause beginning with "whose ranks." Because this structure was unexpected and less familiar, I see that many folks on this page rejected choice (C). That's the sign of a very well written question, if the correct answer is something that many people thing sounds wrong.

OA = (C)

laxieqv wrote:
btw, I double-check :P ...Robert was born in 1943 ....Brando 1924 ....clearly they were from two different generations

I don't know whether laxieqv, who posted that comment 9 years ago, is still following this post, but just FYI, in the first Godfather movie, Marlon Brando plays the elderly father Vito Corleone, and in the following, Godfather II, Robert Di Nero (a generation younger than Brando), played the young Vito Corleone in the flashback portions. I highly recommend both of those movies as classics.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hi, thanks for your explanation. I had a strong doubt on this one because of another question in the OG 2018.
Here is the question:

Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and parteners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.
Choice C: the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably.
Choice D: yet the proportion of women judges and parteners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable

The right choice is C. In this answer, we see clearly that the ‘who’ is a modifier of ‘firms’ not ‘judges and Partners’ by using the rule talked by everybody in this topic. The OG says that the modifying clause ‘who are women’ follows ‘judges and partners at major law firms’ as closely as is possible given the content of the sentence. This really made me confusing.

I think the ultimate correct explanation should be this one: generations of actors including is not correct beacause generations could not include names of people. Otherwise, if we pick up the answer C ‘training several generations of actors’, the training is a modifier of theatre actually. Then it can make sense for answer A by indicating that the ‘Who’ is a modifier of theatre.

I did choose A at the beginning.
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[quote="kimmyg"]As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.


(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included

(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

I think choice A contain only two following problems
first , "including" must go after comma to refer to a preding set.
so , choice A lack a comma before including
I have 3 holidays, including next monday

the second error is that "who trains " refer to the "influential artist". this is not logic.

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 12 Apr 2019, 05:56.
Last edited by thangvietnam on 22 Jan 2020, 22:45, edited 1 time in total.
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New post 16 Apr 2019, 12:32
I don't see a reason for "who trained" to skip over the modifier "in the American theater" to modify "artists," but since neither choice makes sense, we can cross this out without worrying about it. Now if we had something like "It was Stella Adler of the New York Theater Company who trained a generation . . . " we might be able to make that work.
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New post 21 Apr 2019, 00:22
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

While you all got to the write answer here, there are a lot of mistakes made in the explanations that I'd like to correct.

49. As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.

The category of this question is MODIFIERS, which are responsible for almost every error. We can recognize this simply by reading the original sentence. First, it starts with a prepositional modifier (as an actress...), and then we'd notice the "who trained", which is a modifier opened with a relative pronoun. The most important rule to remember for modifiers is that noun modifiers need to touch the thing they're modifying.

a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: The first modifier is correct ("As an actress..." is touching "Stella Adler"). Unfortunately, the second modifier is incorrect. "Who trained several..." should be touching Stella Adler as well. Instead it's modifying "American theater", which doesn't make any sense.

b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
PROBLEM: The problem here is two-fold. First of all, our modifier gets odd here. If you take out the middle man "one of the most...", we end up with a sentence saying that "As an actress and a teacher of acting, Stella Adler trained several generations of actors." That doesn't make any sense. She only taught people as a teacher, not as an actress. Also, the "who include" is modifying incorrectly here.

Think about this sample sentence, "I have a lot of friends who include Dave and Jim." It sounds like my friends are including Dave and Jim (when they hang out together), rather than that Dave and Jim are two of my many friends.

c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included
ANSWER: This fixes both problems I discussed in B.


d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: First, the opening modifier "As an actress" needs to be modifying Stella Adler, but now it's modifying "one of the most influential artists...". The "including" is also problematic, like "include" in b.


e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
PROBLEM: Same as above in terms of modifier. Also makes the "trained" mistake that B made. The loss of the comma creates a lack of clarity, but NOT a run-on sentence (that's when you have independent clauses without a period or semicolon to separate them).

Hope that helps!

-tommy


I just don't understand your explanation for b and e regarding the modifier. If a person cannot train generations of actors as an actress, then how can a person be an artist as a teacher of acting? If we interpret it as a mismatch of meaning between the modifier at the start and the main clause, then either way the sentence is screwed.
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New post 24 Apr 2019, 15:00
viptest There is a difference. In her capacity as an actress, she didn't train anyone. However, her influence as an artist was through both her work and her teaching.
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New post 12 Jun 2019, 05:57
Is this really a 600 level question?
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New post 12 Jun 2019, 06:18
Silly mistake :(. I missed to see a clear error of tense in B :(
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New post 16 Dec 2019, 10:00
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

Issue (1) the relative pronoun ‘who’ touches the word ‘theater’ that means the noun modifier (who trained several generations of actors) incorrectly modifies 'American theatre.' The word ‘who’ can modify a person but a thing.

Issue (2) Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro were actors, but the word ‘including’ modifies ‘generations of actors’ that distorts the meaning.

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

Issue (1) Stella Adler trained actors as a teacher of acting not as an actress, both the roles are mentioned in the opening modifier (As an actress and as a teacher of acting). So, the clause ‘Stella Adler trained several generations of actors’ does not match with the opening modifier.

Issue (2) Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro were actors, but the words ‘who include’ modify ‘generations of actors’ that distorts the meaning.

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included

Option C is the correct answer. The present participle modifier (training several generations of actors) presents additional information about the preceding clause here.

(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

Issue (1) the first modifier presents information about a person. So, a person (Stella Adler) should be placed immediately after the beginning of the modifier. This error is apparent in both options D and E.

(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

Related Grammar Concepts:

1. present participle modifier:

A clause + comma + present participle modifier. This sentence pattern presents either additional information or a result of the preceding clause. For example:

Stella Adler was an influential artist in the American theater, training several generations of actors.

2. A noun modifier:

A noun modifier generally modifies the immediately preceding noun. For example:

The artists voted Miss. Stella, who was a teacher of acting, to train all the young actors.

3. A noun modifier with a prepositional phrase:

The artists voted Miss. Stella of Blue team, who was a teacher of acting, to train all the young actors.

In the scenario above, who correctly modifies Stella as the prepositional phrase (of Blue team) modifies Miss Stella. So, a noun modifier can modify a slightly far away noun.
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New post 16 Dec 2019, 20:56
C is the answer.

A. “Who trained” indicates…she is one of many trainers
B. MODIFIER wrong: “Trained” speaks to “how she trained” . “She trained them as an actress” not logical
C. “Training” phrase modifies/describes how she was one of “the most influential artists”. Different meaning than other sentences.
D. MODIFIER wrong: Subject not after comma
E. MODIFIER wrong: Subject not after comma
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Suggest ideas on Spoken English classes and IELTS coaching.
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New post 12 Jan 2020, 05:09
What is the meaning of ''whose ranks included'' , and how it is contacting the meaning with the names of actors?
Looking forward to having response from experts.
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New post 14 Jan 2020, 11:36
jananiram wrote:
Suggest ideas on Spoken English classes and IELTS coaching.


I think one should write here a respective post related query. Anyway, you can see www.talkenglish.com for spoken lessons and buy online videos of Simon for IELTS coaching.

Thank you.
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New post 14 Jan 2020, 11:50
sani15 wrote:
What is the meaning of ''whose ranks included'' , and how it is contacting the meaning with the names of actors?
Looking forward to having response from experts.



I think the clause whose ranks included modifies generations of actors, and the clause refers to the actors who were under the category of different generations.
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New post 18 Jan 2020, 06:12
GMATNinja wrote:
Quote:
(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

The first issue is that the phrase beginning with "who" is right next to "the American theater", and that doesn't really make sense. "The American theater" isn't a person, and it didn't train generations of actors. Sure, you could maybe argue that "who trained several generations of actors..." reaches back to modify the entire phrase "one of the most influential artists in the American theater", but that's far messier than just modifying "Stella Adler", who is actually the one who trained the actors. We can argue about whether this is definitively WRONG, but at the very least, we can do better than this.

The second issue is that "including" seems to modify "several generations of actors", and that doesn't really make sense: Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro are examples of actors, not "generations of actors." It's subtle -- and probably not the worst error we've ever seen on a GMAT SC question -- but it makes (A) worse than at least one of the alternatives below.

So we can get rid of (A).

Quote:
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

There's still a minor problem with the very last part of the underlined portion: "several generations of actors who include Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro" sounds OK, because those two fellows are examples of actors, but then why are we saying "generations of actors"? Brando and De Niro are examples of actors, not "generations of actors." And there's another problem: "include" is present tense, and it's hard to justify the use of present tense here when the other action related to the actors occurred in the past tense ("trained").

And if you aren't completely sold by that last paragraph, there's something else at the beginning of the sentence: "as an actress... Stella Adler... trained several generations of actors." No, she only "trained generations of actors" as a "teacher of acting" -- not "as an actress." Subtle and nasty. But (B) is out.

Quote:
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included

That opening modifier makes sense now: "as an actress and... as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists..." Cool, that's great. The modifier "training several generations of actors..." also makes sense: it modifies the previous clause, telling us more about Stella Adler and her life as "one of the most influential artists in the American theater.

Superficially, that last part of the underlined portion looks wordy: "several generations of actors whose ranks included..." But adding the phrase "whose ranks included" actually makes the phrase clearer than in (A) or (B): Brando and De Niro were among the ranks of those generations of actors. Fair enough.

So we can keep (C).

Quote:
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

The underlined portion is preceded by "as an actress and... as a teacher of acting", a phrase that really needs to modify "Stella Adler." It's ridiculously indirect for that phrase to modify "one of the most influential artists in the American theater." So (D) is much less clear than (C) in that part of the sentence.

Plus, we have the same minor issue with the phrase "generations of actors including..." as we did in (A). See above for more on that issue.

So (D) is gone.

Quote:
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

(E) has the same problem as (D): the beginning of the sentence needs to modify "Stella Adler." More broadly, "Stella Adler" really needs to be the subject of the sentence, since she's the one that trained the generations of actors -- and it's an indirect mess to use "one of the most influential artists..." as the subject of the sentence.

So (E) is out, and (C) is the best option.



As "who" is the subject of the second clause, can it refer back to the subject of the previous clause?? i.e. 'Stella Adler'
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2020, 17:47
venkivety wrote:
As "who" is the subject of the second clause, can it refer back to the subject of the previous clause?? i.e. 'Stella Adler'

I assume you're asking about choice (A):

Quote:
(A) As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

If we wanted to modify Stella Adler with "who trained...", then we'd have to put the "who" clause much closer to "Stella Adler". For example: "... Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors...".

The placement of the "who" clause in choice (A) leads us to believe that it modifies "American theater" or maybe "one of the most influential artists". The "who" clause would have to jump over both of those options in order to modify "Stella", and that would make the meaning pretty darned unclear.

Choice (C) avoids this problem entirely, so it's a much better option.

I hope that helps!
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella   [#permalink] 22 Jan 2020, 17:47

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