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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella

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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2018, 04:36
MagooshExpert DmitryFarber
"comma+verbing" modify preceding action or present the result
for eg : I went to my school,riding my bicycle >> doer = I. action = went . modifier modifying action by telling us how I went.

How is "training" modifying "was influential" ??
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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2018, 17:50
Stella as an actress is one artist. Stella as a teacher of acting is one artist.
^ This makes sense to me.

One artist as an actress is Stella. One artist as a teacher of acting is Stella.
^ This doesn't make sense to me.

I may have oversimplified, but this is why I eliminated (D) and (E)

The distinction between actress and teacher of acting doesn't seem particularly important if the following clause is "Stella Adler trained several generations of actors". We may be interested in saying something about her experience in acting, but mentioning that she is a teacher of acting seems redundant.

This is why I eliminated (B) and (E)

The "who" in (A) has reference problems, so this can be eliminated.

We are left with (C)

As a side note, I don't see much wrong with any of the "includes" clauses so far. I may change my opinion on this later.
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jan 2019, 05:16
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Reposting the excellent question asked by gmatman1031 on our SC "ask me anything" discussion, just in case it helps somebody on this thread:

gmatman1031 wrote:
Hey Charles,

I'm reviewing the SC question found here about Stella Adler. And your analysis on this has been super helpful.

However, I have a concern about "include" vs "included" here. Wouldn't it better be to say "include" rather than "included" since these actors still are and will always be considered among the ranks of actors taught by Stella Adler?

I don't think it's enough to seriously call into question the validity of answer (C), but it's a small point that I've been curious about.

I end up thinking about this fairly often: it's often the case that multiple verb tenses would work in the same sentence, without really changing the meaning much. And I think this is one of those cases.

Here's a stripped-down version of the Stella Adler sentence, one in past tense, and one in present tense:

  • Stella Adler trained several generations of actors whose ranks included Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.
  • Stella Adler trained several generations of actors whose ranks include Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

I think you could argue that either one is fine. The training happened in the past, so it seems appropriate enough to say that the ranks included Brando and De Niro in the past tense. You could also argue that because the present tense just indicates a general characteristic, you could use the present tense here: the ranks of actors inherently include Brando and De Niro.

Honestly, I think past tense seems more reasonable here. For example, you probably wouldn't say something like "the ranks of dinosaurs include raptors and brontosauruses." That would be weird, since the dinosaurs are clearly dead. It wouldn't be WRONG, exactly, to use the present, but I think it would feel strange, and confuse the reader a little bit. ("Why is the author using present tense to talk about dinosaurs? OH CRAP!! Jurassic Park was a documentary?!?! It was REAL?! AAAAAAAAAAGH! We're all going to get chomped! I need to panic-eat ice cream. RIGHT NOW!")

But of course, the GMAT didn't actually make you choose between the past and present tenses in the Stella Adler question. (The present tense appears in (B), but that answer choice is horrendously wrong for other reasons.) And generally, the GMAT won't force you to choose between those two if there's any ambiguity whatsoever.

I hope this helps a bit! (And for anybody looking for a general treatment of GMAT verb tenses, check out this video.)
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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2019, 07:59
TommyWallach

TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

While you all got to the write answer here, there are a lot of mistakes made in the explanations that I'd like to correct.

49. As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.

The category of this question is MODIFIERS, which are responsible for almost every error. We can recognize this simply by reading the original sentence. First, it starts with a prepositional modifier (as an actress...), and then we'd notice the "who trained", which is a modifier opened with a relative pronoun. The most important rule to remember for modifiers is that noun modifiers need to touch the thing they're modifying.

a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: The first modifier is correct ("As an actress..." is touching "Stella Adler"). Unfortunately, the second modifier is incorrect. "Who trained several..." should be touching Stella Adler as well. Instead it's modifying "American theater", which doesn't make any sense.

b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include




Is the use of "whose ranks included" alright? Since it is a fact, shouldnt the correct version be like "whose ranks include"?
PROBLEM: The problem here is two-fold. First of all, our modifier gets odd here. If you take out the middle man "one of the most...", we end up with a sentence saying that "As an actress and a teacher of acting, Stella Adler trained several generations of actors." That doesn't make any sense. She only taught people as a teacher, not as an actress. Also, the "who include" is modifying incorrectly here.

Think about this sample sentence, "I have a lot of friends who include Dave and Jim." It sounds like my friends are including Dave and Jim (when they hang out together), rather than that Dave and Jim are two of my many friends.

c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included
ANSWER: This fixes both problems I discussed in B.


d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
PROBLEM: First, the opening modifier "As an actress" needs to be modifying Stella Adler, but now it's modifying "one of the most influential artists...". The "including" is also problematic, like "include" in b.


e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
PROBLEM: Same as above in terms of modifier. Also makes the "trained" mistake that B made. The loss of the comma creates a lack of clarity, but NOT a run-on sentence (that's when you have independent clauses without a period or semicolon to separate them).

Hope that helps!

-tommy


In option (B), Is the version "whose ranks included" correct here? Since this is a fact, I thought the correct for, should be more like "whose ranks include".
Please help.
Thanks in advance
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Feb 2019, 14:27
mikemcgarry wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included


I'm happy to respond. :-)

The first thing I'll say is --- after the long introductory phrase before the underlined part, it's very natural to expect the name right away. Choice (D) & (E) are awkward in that they delay the name even further. Stella Adler is the focus of the sentence, the star of this particular sentence, so we want to get to her. Just as it wouldn't make sense to have a 3 hour movie in which we meet the star of the movie only in the last 30 minutes, so it doesn't make sense for the subject & focus of a sentence to be unnecessarily buried further & further in the sentence. That's one problem with (D) & (E). We will reject both of those.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
Trainwreck modifier mistake!! The phrase beginning with "who" is an ordinary noun modifier, modifying the subject, Stella Adler. Noun modifiers much touch the noun they modifier. This is incorrect.

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
Most of this is good, until the end. We get a weird shift in verb tense in the final verb --- everything in the sentence is past tense until we get to present test "include." Why is this last verb in the present tense? That simply doesn't make sense with the rest of the sentence. This is incorrect.

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
Brilliant! I have to say, as someone who regularly writes GMAT SC practice questions, I am always impressed by the brilliance of the folks at GMAC. This one is 100% correct. Unlike the "who" modifier in (A), the "training" modifier is a little more flexible ---- it can be thought of as modifying the entire independent clause, so it doesn't need to "touch" anything. The truly brilliant part is --- the sentence creates the expectation that the underlined section would end:
... several generations of actors, including ...
That would have been perfectly correct. Of course, if we just replaced the active participle "including" with the passive participle "included", that would be entirely incorrect:
...several generations of actors, included ...
Instead, the folks at GMAC came up with this very clever alternative:
...several generations of actors whose ranks included...
This is different from what one might have expected, but it's 100% correct. Here, the word "included" is not a participle, but a full bonafide verb, the verb of the clause beginning with "whose ranks." Because this structure was unexpected and less familiar, I see that many folks on this page rejected choice (C). That's the sign of a very well written question, if the correct answer is something that many people thing sounds wrong.

OA = (C)

laxieqv wrote:
btw, I double-check :P ...Robert was born in 1943 ....Brando 1924 ....clearly they were from two different generations

I don't know whether laxieqv, who posted that comment 9 years ago, is still following this post, but just FYI, in the first Godfather movie, Marlon Brando plays the elderly father Vito Corleone, and in the following, Godfather II, Robert Di Nero (a generation younger than Brando), played the young Vito Corleone in the flashback portions. I highly recommend both of those movies as classics.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hi, thanks for your explanation. I had a strong doubt on this one because of another question in the OG 2018.
Here is the question:

Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and parteners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.
Choice C: the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably.
Choice D: yet the proportion of women judges and parteners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable

The right choice is C. In this answer, we see clearly that the ‘who’ is a modifier of ‘firms’ not ‘judges and Partners’ by using the rule talked by everybody in this topic. The OG says that the modifying clause ‘who are women’ follows ‘judges and partners at major law firms’ as closely as is possible given the content of the sentence. This really made me confusing.

I think the ultimate correct explanation should be this one: generations of actors including is not correct beacause generations could not include names of people. Otherwise, if we pick up the answer C ‘training several generations of actors’, the training is a modifier of theatre actually. Then it can make sense for answer A by indicating that the ‘Who’ is a modifier of theatre.

I did choose A at the beginning.
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Re: As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella   [#permalink] 12 Feb 2019, 14:27

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