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# At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most

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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most [#permalink]

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21 Aug 2003, 16:44
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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of {{land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards}}

(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

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21 Aug 2003, 22:42
AkamaiBrah wrote:

i got the same, its from this forum...but the answer given is A.

A would have been right if it said "" return to what had been a pre -colombian form of ownership respected by the spaniards"

i have a question with B.

why do we need the "and " in the latter half.

a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians "and" respected by the Spaniards

can we not say...a form of ownership of the pre columbians respected by the spaniards

thanks
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22 Aug 2003, 00:08
praetorian123 wrote:
i got the same, its from this forum...but the answer given is A.

A would have been right if it said "" return to what had been a pre -colombian form of ownership respected by the spaniards"

i have a question with B.

why do we need the "and " in the latter half.

a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians "and" respected by the Spaniards

can we not say...a form of ownership of the pre columbians respected by the spaniards

thanks
praetorian

You are exactly correct. The only parallel structure here is (A).

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22 Aug 2003, 04:37
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JP wrote:
praetorian123 wrote:
i got the same, its from this forum...but the answer given is A.

A would have been right if it said "" return to what had been a pre -colombian form of ownership respected by the spaniards"

i have a question with B.

why do we need the "and " in the latter half.

a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians "and" respected by the Spaniards

can we not say...a form of ownership of the pre columbians respected by the spaniards

thanks
praetorian

You are exactly correct. The only parallel structure here is (A).

JP: you are really good at this stuff. Do you REALLY feel comfortable with A?

I still don't like A. YOu have a "to ....., to ....." structure where the second "to" is meant to explain or modifiy the first "to". IMO, you don't need the second "to" and it makes the implied subordination of one to the other unclear. However, if you keep it, a comma just doesn't seem strong enough here. Perhaps that phrase should be set off with a colon (one use of a colon is to set off a phrase that illustrates the what precedes it. )

"I am going to that place called Kansas, a place where people are friendly, the scarecrows are brainless, and there are no evil witches."

"I am going to a place called Kansas: to that place where people are friendly, the scarecrows are brainless, and there are no evil witches."

Also, it is not clear that one explains the other simply by the structure of the sentence:

"Here is a toast to victory in battle, to victory in war"

I like B better because the phrase "a form of ownership...." clearly and properly points out that it is the form of ownership that is being explained.

In addition, I see nothing wrong with:

"a form of ownership: 1) of the pre-Columbians, and 2) respected by the
Spaniards". If you take out either 1) or 2), the phrase stands as proper.

What I don't like about B and which is the only thing that I can find wrong, is that "ownership of the pre-Columbians" is a little ambiguous (maybe "by the pre-columbians"). This is probably enough to give the nod to A, but A IMO sucks.

IMO, a good sentence would be:

At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, a form of ownership used by the pre-Columbians that was respected by the Spaniards.

Bottom line is I don't trust these Chinese web sites that have tons of questions with no explanations. I have found at least a dozen answer errors and even more typos in the last few months. Caveat emptor.

I would like to see another sentence found in any reputatble English publication (OG, KAP, PR, etc) that parallels the structure in A "to ..., to ....," and is considered correct; and I would like to read the explanation.
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22 Aug 2003, 05:38
I got this question at a GMAT course I attend, and I was told that is taken from an old paper based GMAT test.

I do agree with AkamaiBrah though, A sucks and a colon would make it much better. Still B is apparently wrong (I had chosen this answer myself) because it imples that the pre-Columbians were owned not the land.

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22 Aug 2003, 06:57
Why (E) is wrong?

I believe you guys that (B) is right but I have no ANY idea why you have chosen this answer choice !!!
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22 Aug 2003, 13:51
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP: you are really good at this stuff. Do you REALLY feel comfortable with A?

The clincher for me is not just the awkward "and," but also the "a form of ownership of the pre-Colimbains." That would be akin to saying "the dog of Akamai" rather than "Akamai's dog," which in my experience just isn't done in SWE.

I see your improvement as better than (a) or (b), though.

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22 Aug 2003, 15:58
JP wrote:
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP: you are really good at this stuff. Do you REALLY feel comfortable with A?

The clincher for me is not just the awkward "and," but also the "a form of ownership of the pre-Colimbains." That would be akin to saying "the dog of Akamai" rather than "Akamai's dog," which in my experience just isn't done in SWE.

I see your improvement as better than (a) or (b), though.

Actually, the error in B is slightly worse. "the ownership of pre=colombians" begs the question of who owns what. Hence, there is a meaning equivocation as opposed to a simple style error. Replacing "of" by "by" would fix it for me.
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22 Aug 2003, 22:32
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP wrote:
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP: you are really good at this stuff. Do you REALLY feel comfortable with A?

The clincher for me is not just the awkward "and," but also the "a form of ownership of the pre-Colimbains." That would be akin to saying "the dog of Akamai" rather than "Akamai's dog," which in my experience just isn't done in SWE.

I see your improvement as better than (a) or (b), though.

Actually, the error in B is slightly worse. "the ownership of pre=colombians" begs the question of who owns what. Hence, there is a meaning equivocation as opposed to a simple style error. Replacing "of" by "by" would fix it for me.

This was a fascinating discussion !
But i guess B has its problems and A too has its own problems...i cant imagine A for an answer..but ..oh well.
I will post it on another forum and lets see what their Boss,who is an English Teacher has to say..i will let you know then.

God help us if we have to do this in 2 mins !

Thanks
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22 Aug 2003, 22:58
praetorian123 wrote:
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP wrote:
AkamaiBrah wrote:
JP: you are really good at this stuff. Do you REALLY feel comfortable with A?

The clincher for me is not just the awkward "and," but also the "a form of ownership of the pre-Colimbains." That would be akin to saying "the dog of Akamai" rather than "Akamai's dog," which in my experience just isn't done in SWE.

I see your improvement as better than (a) or (b), though.

Actually, the error in B is slightly worse. "the ownership of pre=colombians" begs the question of who owns what. Hence, there is a meaning equivocation as opposed to a simple style error. Replacing "of" by "by" would fix it for me.

This was a fascinating discussion !
But i guess B has its problems and A too has its own problems...i cant imagine A for an answer..but ..oh well.
I will post it on another forum and lets see what their Boss,who is an English Teacher has to say..i will let you know then.

God help us if we have to do this in 2 mins !

Thanks
Praetorian

Erin will probably pick A. But just because it is the correct answer doesn't mean I have to like it.
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04 Jul 2009, 16:40
i've looked through 2 independent threads on this but both threads do not explain what is wrong with E ... can anyone pls explain ?
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04 Jul 2009, 18:14
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.
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06 Jul 2009, 01:35
Pathfinder wrote:
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.

So if E had a comma it would be right (after land) ?
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06 Jul 2009, 06:44
nightwing79 wrote:
Pathfinder wrote:
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.

So if E had a comma it would be right (after land) ?

I think it still will be wrong.

If you use comma after land (or before 'that') then 'that' modifies 'followers' which is even worse.

nice discussion.

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06 Jul 2009, 07:47
nightwing79 wrote:
Pathfinder wrote:
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.

So if E had a comma it would be right (after land) ?

Maybe. But it would have to have comma nad "which" instead of "that" in order to modify "ownership of land". Anyway, it would've been ambiguous even with "which" because it wouldn't have been clear if it modifies "land" or "ownership of land".
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06 Jul 2009, 08:00
Pathfinder wrote:
nightwing79 wrote:
Pathfinder wrote:
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.

So if E had a comma it would be right (after land) ?

Maybe. But it would have to have comma nad "which" instead of "that" in order to modify "ownership of land". Anyway, it would've been ambiguous even with "which" because it wouldn't have been clear if it modifies "land" or "ownership of land".

Pathfinder,
agree 'which' refers to the closest noun. but you think if we just have a comma infront of 'that' makes 'that' refer to previous clause's 'followers'?

I know this option is wrong anyway but trying to see where 'that' will be pointed to if comma precedes it..

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06 Jul 2009, 08:35
I have a query in
(B)
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards

In this case first is a noun (phrase) modifying the communal ownership of land
second is participle phrase. Are they parallel? Please explain.

Shouldn't the second one be like 'was respected by the Spaniards'

Also the modifier is incorrect, "respected by the Spaniards" should modify the pre-columbian form of ownership, so 'and' is inappropriate.

A) It seems correct to me now, still little awkward but edible [(;)] for now.

propose X to Y

If we see that what is proposed is "return to communal ownership of land" (X with main verb 'return')
to Y ("what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards")

Opinions?
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06 Jul 2009, 14:13
it shud b E.

i don think 'that' is modifying just land, its modifying the 'ownership of land'.

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06 Jul 2009, 14:31
Pathfinder wrote:
nightwing79 wrote:
Pathfinder wrote:
(E) is wrong because it tends to modify the noun "land" itself, instead to modify "ownership of the land". Although I don't like (A) either, it is the only correct of all the answers.

So if E had a comma it would be right (after land) ?

Maybe. But it would have to have comma nad "which" instead of "that" in order to modify "ownership of land". Anyway, it would've been ambiguous even with "which" because it wouldn't have been clear if it modifies "land" or "ownership of land".

your right - which would be required. A comma and "which" would do it.
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# At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most

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