GMAT Pill presents... vs Which to choose? A Secret Idiomatic

Nicely put, but, as for the post, I would rather recommend it to advanced students. The rule of a thumb that you have drafted may be useful, although not necessarily on the GMAT. As shown, one is rarely left to such a critical choice on the exam. Moreover, taking into account multiple idioms that are tested on the GMAT, which not always follow the rule of a thumb, this rule may be misleading. I mean that one should not eliminate ACs by this rule. E.g. both the "method for doing sh" and "method of doing sh" are idiomatical and excluding an AC because of the "for"/"of" may lead to incorrect AC. There are numerous cases like this one (e.g. see Manhattan SC, Chapter 9). As for me, I wholeheartedly espouse a tested English ABC: Accuracy, Brevity, Clarity. Actually, I think that this is what your point can be boiled down to. However, idiomatic language can never be trimmed down to plug 'n chug like "sh vs sh".

Note the GMAT rarely tests you only on idioms - they've been phasing out idioms over the past several years. So sure, there are exceptions - but as noted above, the only exception we could find was one from an older version of the OG. That question does not appear in the latest OG13 version. We suspect GMAT removed this particular question as part of their effort to move away from idioms. So the chances of this rule falling apart are quite slim without idioms in the way.

So sure, you can choose not to follow this rule of thumb - but as shown above, following this general rule of thumb can get you better results on a large number of questions than you might otherwise get.

More generally, "to do x" is considered simpler/clearer than "doing x" - so in that sense it matches the brevity/clarity you are referring to. It's the same idea.

I was eliminating the "for doing" answer cauz it just a gerund and my rule of thumb was "Inf." is always better than "Gerund"
Can I still rely on this or what?

Hi sinchicodo,

This is the same idea.

In our teachings, we try to avoid using phrases such as "gerund" or "participial phrase" or "subjunctive clause" - that's why we just call it "doing" vs "to do"--so that students who do not understand complex grammar terminology can still ace the GMAT.

What you mention as gerund vs infinitive - is the same idea. The infinitive "to do" is generally viewed as simpler according to GMAC folks - and therefore preferred/correct.

I am not clear of FOR DOING/TO DO

but I think that TO DO is used when the subject of the previous verb is agent of TO DO
DOING is used when the agent of DOING is not the subject of the previous verb. DOING refers to a general action.

I want to follow this posting.

You may not fully understand it right away - but I encourage you to pay attention to the so many GMAT questions that have answer choices with these 2 options.

Oftentimes, students tell us they are stuck between 2 answer choices and don't know which one to pick.

Well, many times---if you stick to this rule - you'll choose the right answer. The other one may technically be error-free, but since the GMAT folks want you to pick the BEST one--then that's your job.

You don't want to spend all the effort to eliminate 3 of the 5 answer choices--and then end up picking the wrong answer--not because there is something wrong with it--but rather because it is not the PREFERRED form on the GMAT.

For further practice, please see: https://www.gmatpill.com/gmat-practice-t ... questions/

I will re read this article. this topic is great.

gmatpill experts, pls note my idea

to do is use after subject+verb, a clause to show the intent of the main clause.
when "to do" is used after noun or adjective, the pattern is idiomatic

I will re study this topic. Thank you for gmatpill experts for posting this topic

thank you gmatpill experts for posting the problem.

honestly, I read the article but do not fully understand. I will reread it one time more.

for now, I want to make some ideas. I wish you will consider my idea to write more for us. there are 3 standard/aspect on which we decide to use "to do" or "for doing"

1.
"to do" is used to show purpose of the subject and main verb in the previous clause. "for doing" is not used in this case.
2.
after noun or adjective, the use of "to do" or "for doing" is dependent on the idioms
3.
normally, "doing" can be a participle which refer to a specific action of a specific noun in the main clause. there are only a few patterns in which doing is used as participle. the following patterns

- noun+doing phrase
-doing+noun
- doing phrase+comma+main clause
- main clause+comma+doing phrase.

in other patterns, "doing" is used as gerund, which refer to general action and refer to no specific noun in the main clause. in this case, action noun is prefered over "doing"; "attempt" is prefered over "trying" . the different fuctions of "doing" makes grammarians give them 2 names : participle and gerund.

evidence is used for classifying the genes. (here "evidence" dose not do "classifying" )

so we have one more standard ,with which to decide "to do" of "for doing" is used.


using 3 standards above, we decide to use "to do" or "for doing"

this is hard, I am confuse many times

the lesion to learn

is correct

the lesion for learning

is not correct.

I think there is idiom here . there is no previous clause before "the lession"

used to attract

is idiom.

this is very hard. I hope gmat dose not test un this point.

vietmoi,

I think you're overthinking it. You may be technically right in some ways - but with so much analysis and fancy verbal terminology, you'll just experience paralysis on the exam!

Your reference to:

- doing phrase+comma+main clause
- main clause+comma+doing phrase.

---these 2 are not relevant at all to this topic. Sure you'll see the -ING words in these cases:

"Doing X, this person blah blah blah.."
or the flipped version "This person blah blah blah, doing X"

---BUT both of these are NOT examples of "to do" vs "doing" (the topic of this post)

The example usage we are addressing looks more like this:

"The main reason the government created program X was for helping"
"The main reason the government created program X was to help"

---choose "to help"

Does this necessarily mean "for helping" is wrong? No!

You see, the key takeaway here is not to look at these "to do" vs "doing" situations as black and white.

It's NOT black and white.

Both can be technically correct.

But again--IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE...and oftentimes on the GMAT when you eliminate down to 2 answer choices, you will be asked to choose between 2 seemingly good answers---then you should choose the "to do" version. Unless there is some idiomatic exception, 9 out of 10 times, the answer will be the "to do" version.

So really, this is more of a smart guessing strategy that can also help you quickly pick an answer that will have a high probability of being correct before moving on.

if the idiom "model to do" is correct , the above sentence offer ambiguity that two meaning can be understood, "to predict modifying "use" and "to predict" modifying "model"
but if the idiom is "model of doing " , the above sentence means "to predict" is modifying "use"

in sumary. the two following rules govern the use of "todo" or "for doing"

"to do" or "for doing' depend on idioms. these idioms compose of verb, noun, adjective and "to do" or "for doing"

when diciding between "to do" and "for doing" , we need to know what "todo/for doing" modify. this knowledge help us to choose "to do"/ "for doing"

Most conspicuously, all above chosen examples are those in which using "to do" is appropriate. I wonder what about those few official cases in which "doing x" is right.

I believe the difference lies in the meaning.

Tom was received with acclaim to write a book. WRONG : Tom was never received with acclaim so that he can write a book.
Tom was received with acclaim for writing a book. RIGHT

Believe me, often GMAT plays on these supposed rigid rules.

Regds

A very informative post. However, I would like to discuss some more points in your statements:



[1] Difference between To-Inf and Ving: You say that "Always choose "to do X"" from the example:

"Warning that computers in the United States are not secure, the National Academy of Sciences has urged the nation to revamp computer security procedures, institute new emergency response teams, creating a special nongovernment organization to take charge of computer security planning.
- You reason that "Some grammar experts will argue that both are OK – but on the GMAT, we at GMAT Pill know that answer choice (E) is the one to pick".
- Well, you should understand the underlying cause. That is, GMAT test American English rather than British English. In American English, there is a trend (I say a trend because in TOEFL Test, they have a similar motive) that to express clearly the purpose, "To-Inf" is straightforward and correct. The term "For + Ving" is considered WRONG.

With such awareness, look back at all problems, you see there is a problem between "To + Inf" and "For + Ving" (rather than "To-Inf" and "Ving", and most of the cases, "To-Inf" is used)



[2] You should pay particular attention to the following examples that you raise:

"A new study suggests that the conversational pace of everyday life may be so brisk it hampers the ability of some children for distinguishing discrete sounds and words and, the result is to make sense of speech."

The point to remember here is NOT the difference between To-Inf and V-ing, RATHER, it is the idiom phrase "an ability TO DO sth". With such, test takers do not have to pay too much concern in this case because the word "ability" in ALL cases should be accompanied by "to-inf". Every dictionary guarantees that, check it yourself.

Takeaway: DO NOT just pay attention to "To-Inf" or "V-ing". Look at what noun/ phrase/ clause it modifies.



[3] You say that when "To-inf" is absent, “that does X” should be chosen over “for doing X”, and you give the following example:

"In a blow to those who still harbored the illusion that E-mail exchanges are private, a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick for enabling an interloper to rig an E-mail message so that this person will be privy to any comments that a recipient had added as the message is forwarded to others or sent back and forth."

And by your reason, choice [D]: "still harboring the illusion that E-mail exchange are private , a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick that enables an interloper to rig an E-mail message so that this person will be privy to any comments that a recipient might add"
is CHOSEN OVER
choice "who had still been harboring the illusion that E-mail exchanges are private, a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick for enabling an interloper to rig an E-mail message so that this person was privy to any comments that a recipient might have added."

I am afraid this is not the REAL point and it just makes difficult for others to understand.

The structure "To-Inf" is always used to reflect how sb/sth achieve sth. There are two cases:
A. "To-Inf" is accompanied by the noun/ noun phrase to reflect that that noun/ noun phrase is a means to obtain something.
Ex: He has the ability to sing.
Mary did not have any motive to do that.
OR
B. "To-Inf" reflects the purpose of the whole action of a clause.
Ex: I come to university to broaden my knowledge.
John drives slowly to avoid accident (= John drives slowly SO THAT he can avoid accident = John drives slowly IN ORDER TO avoid accident).
OR
C. There is a mixed circumstances when either understanding is reasonable:
Ex: She uses the knife to cut food. [Knife is a tools (A), or how the result of "cutting food" is obtained? It is due to the fact that "she uses the knife" (B)]

There is a clear DIFFERENCE between A and B:
In A, "To-Inf" directly modifies the noun and noun phrase, NOT the whole clause. You can clearly see such literal meaning.
In B, "To-Inf" modifies the entirely clause (in this aspect, it is equivalent to "so that" clause). You can see that if you attach "To-Inf" to the noun "university", it is meaningless because the result that I want to achieve, namely "broadening knowledge", does not stem from "university" but roots directly from the fact that "I come to university". Literally, "broadening my knowledge" results from the fact that I come to university RATHER than from the university itself. (I can come to college to broaden my knowledge, so the place does not result in the benefit but rather, what I mean is, the action of my coming to that place).

With such differences in mind, look back at the example:

"In a blow to those who still harbored the illusion that E-mail exchanges are private, a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick for enabling an interloper to rig an E-mail message so that this person will be privy to any comments that a recipient had added as the message is forwarded to others or sent back and forth."

We just clarify the sentence: "a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick for enabling an interloper to rig an E-mail message so that this person will be privy to any comments"
- Coincidentally, if we apply "To-Inf" here, we will have "a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick TO ENABLE..." and the circumstance lies in C, meaning that we can understand "a trick" is a means to enable an interloper to rig an email message OR the activity of uncovering a trick by a watchdog group enables an interloper to rig an email message.
- However, when we you "that", you clearly see that in the defining clause (with NO commas) in the option [D]: "a watchdog group recently uncovered a trick that enables an interloper to rig an E-mail message", the meaning is that the whole phrase "enable an interloper..." modifies directly for the word "trick". Thus, the sentence's TRUE meaning is that if we use "To-Inf", the meaning will fall into circumstance A (modifying the noun/noun phrase), neither B nor C.
- So be careful: it is NOT the absence of "To-Inf" and you choose "That" over "V-ing", but it ALL rests on the meaning. However, the outcome is coincidental with what you claim because all in all, "V-ing" is least preferred, and because there is no "To-Inf", people have a tendency to look for something DIFFERENT from "V-ing".

The explanations above are clear in your many examples.



[4] You also push its to the extent that GMAC also accepts "V-ing" instead of "To-Inf" by citing the examples:

1) “Stressing the arts is a method for achieving greater economic development” is OK
2) “Stressing the arts is a method to achieve greater economic development” can also be OK.

And you claim that "The fact that GMAC uses (1) instead of (2) does not necessarily mean (2) is wrong. Quite the contrary, in fact – as we have noted in all the previous examples above"


- I'm afraid I TOTALLY disagree with this point because you are making it more difficult for people to understand.
- If you reason that "For-Ving" is preferred although "To-inf" is perfect in meaning and thus my explanation in [3] is faulty. You will make a specious claim.

This case are NOT contrary to the point I have made because it does not lie in the difference between "To-Inf" and "V-ing" any more but rather, the word "method". More specifically, this case is the [2] that I have presented.

Checking in all available dictionaries and you will find the following idioms:
- A method OF doing sth
- A method FOR doing sth.

However, "FOR" is considered RIGHT and frequently used and "OF" appears much less often. The safest way is to use "a method FOR doing sth"
You can also look up at Manhattan The Sentence Correction Guide, 4th edition, page 141 (page 135 in file pdf). There is an exact sentence clarifying the right use of "a method FOR doing sth".



[5] Because you miss that point, the following explanation in the example is, to me, UNREASONABLE:

"New genetic evidence-together with recent studies of elephants' skeletons, tusks, and other anatomical features-//provide compelling support for classifying//Africa's forest elephants and its savanna elephants as separate species."

You CLAIM that : "Idiomatically, you provide support TO someone or some group or organization. You can’t provide support to a verb."

I am afraid that you miss the whole point. From all your available dictionaries, you may find the structures for provide:
- Provide somebody WITH something (The object "somebody" receives "something")
- Provide something FOR Noun/ Gerund Phrase:
a) Provide something FOR somebody (The object "something" is given to "somebody")
b) Provide something FOR doing something (The object "something" is given to facilitate the performing of the second "something")

With such look up, it is completely clear that even if there is a sentence: "provide support TO someone or some group or organization", that sentence is WRONG!

Similar explanations for the example of PENCHAT:

"You have a penchant for learning" - idiomatically correct because it is GRAMMATICALLY correct. A penchant FOR (doing) sth = A liking FOR (doing) sth

You have a penchant to learn - not idiomatically correct because it is UNGRAMMATICALLY correct. No need to discuss such STRANGE structure. If you cannot see how strange it is, then I assume that you haven't checked the dictionaries.



In conclusion, I want to add value to your thread by proposing that:
1) It is NOT the solely difference between "To-Inf" and "V-ing" that you have spent invaluable time to accumulate examples for us that is important, it is the whole IDIOMATIC expression.
2) There is a clear ORDER to consider when one see "To-Inf" and "V-ing"
- First, look for the noun/noun phrase to know what "To-Inf" or "V-ing" modifies. This method relies HEAVILY on your vocabulary and grammar to identify the correct choice. Most of the cases rest on this ability.
- Second, if you cannot see any term, or you vocabulary cannot help because it seems strange, then you should consider "To-Inf" in terms of the reflection of the purpose of the whole clause. However, be careful and look at all connectors and conjunctions for fear of redundancy, especially the case of Gerund (it is said that "BEING" seems to be redundant in MOST cases. However, they (experts) also raise the concern that it is not only because of this point that you erase the choice because there have been already official answers which contain "being". The point of "being" is not discussed here, just the issue of "erasing or not" is important!)
- Third, when you have looked carefully enough and still CANNOT know how to choose because "To-Inf" and "V-ing" are, to you, equally reasonable, then it is your luck to prefer "To-Inf". I say LUCK because you may skip a certain sign (an idiomatic usage) that you don't know.



Again, thank you very much for you post. Hope my points are clear.

this point is hard though it is more grammatical than meaningful

I want to say something.

TO DO is used to show a purpose of a verb or do-ed, and normally but not absolutely, the agent performing the action shown by TO DO is subject of preceding main clause. TO DO shows a future action.

I learn english to go to US.
this model is used to predict weather.
in the first sentence, agent of TO GO is "I". in the second sentence, PREDICT has no agent but refers to general future action.

FOR DOING is used to modify a noun normally
model for predicting weather is good.

now, we finish the difference between TO DO and DOING in general. above rule is simple and comprehensive. end of story.

in the idiom cases, TO DO or FOR DOING is used, depending on each idiom. for example,
my ability to learn english is good.

to learn here modify the noun "ability". we have to remember this idiom. this case is not relevant to the rule above.

so, I think the matter is rather simple. my rule can explain all the official questions in this topic.

pls, counter my ideas. we are here to counter each other to be better on the real test.

Hi guys,

One quick question about ex5

About answer "C" : in attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving.
Is "in attracting" actualy correct? Or can I rule out any answer choices with this structure without further reading?

Thanks

here is a counter example.

Controversial mortgage laws passed last year state that, at any point during the maturation period of the loan, if the person in whose name the loan is taken is not able to make the payments, that person’s spouse will have responsibilities that include paying the balance.

will have responsibilities that include
will be responsible to pay
is responsible to pay
will be responsible for paying
will have responsibility to pay

GMATPill

your example 4.
The reason why that particular answer was chosen is not because of the reason you mentioned. The first verb-ing modifier needs to modify a subject. Only the correct answer does that.