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MBBDorBust
Current Student
Joined: 28 Jul 2020
Last visit: 01 Aug 2021
Posts: 50
Given Kudos: 3
Location: United States
Schools: Tuck '23 (A$) Yale '23 (A) Ross '23 (A$) Darden '23 (A) Sloan '23 (A$) CBS '23 Stanford '23 Harvard '23 Booth '23 (D) Fuqua '23 (A$)
GPA: 1
11 Sep 2020, 11:37
Kudos
Bookmarks
Hey everyone. I've been following GMATClub, but never really posted or used the website. I've been lurking in the shadows, and thought I'd share with y'all my GMAT experience. I bring a perspective that isn't super well represented due to it being uncommon, but I think that many people will find helpful!
Good to Great
One of my favorite business books is Good to Great by Jim Collins, which is where the theme of this post was borrowed from. The book describes how some good companies became great companies, and why many good companies never became great companies. My first GMAT was good - 740 - but knowing my GPA started with the number 2 (and I'm an American! It's easier to get away with low GPA's if you're international since they don't factor into the class average, but as an America, a 2 is a big "yikes"), I knew good wasn't good. I needed to be great.
Summary of my progress:
Mock 1 - 700, Q46, V40, IR8
Mock 2 - 720, Q48, V40
Mock 3 - 750, Q51, V40
Test 1 - 740 Q48, V44, IR8 (online so no AW)
Mock 4 - 780, Q51, V46
Test 2 - 760 Q50, V42, IR8, AW6
Mock 5 - 780, Q51, V46
Test 3 - 780, Q51, V46, IR8, AW6 (the mba website is crashing when I try to generate a link, I'll try again when I get home tonight so I can get that score verified too)
My Background
Degree: Engineering
Institution: Mid-Tier public school
GPA: 2.9
Work experience: 1.5 years as an engineer at company 1, 2.5 years as an engineer for company 2. The companies are small and aren't well known and neither company has ever sent an employee to a top 50 MBA program.
My Goals
I'm currently around $150K TC at my current job - and I live in a very, very, very low cost of living area. (For reference, NerdWallet's cost of living calculator says that the equivalent in NYC is $426,395.) So in addition to having about 5 red marks on my profile, I really can't consider anything outside of a T15 from an ROI perspective.
Jim Collins has another book - Built to Last - that introduces another concept called BHAG's. Jim Collins describes BHAG's as such:
Some famous BHAG's are:
Honda in the 1970's: "Yamaha wo tsubusu!" ("We will destroy Yamaha!")
Merck in the 1930's: "Transform this company from a chemical manufacturer into one of the preeminent drug-making companies in the world."
SpaceX now: "Enable human exploration and settlement of Mars."
Knowing I had an uphill battle ahead of me, I set my own BHAG:
Me, now: "I will be the most interesting candidate in any given application pool."
That's not "most qualified" or "most likely to be admitted." That's "most interesting." I figure that with my background, I need a champion or 5 to help push me through admissions. And the way to find a champion is to be interesting.
I can't change my undergraduate GPA, and I can't retroactively attend MIT instead of a middling public university. But one facet I could control was my GMAT score. So as part of my BHAG, I wanted to have the highest GMAT score in any given class. After doing some research on class profiles, I set my GMAT target of 780. That's likely to be the highest in any given class - which is certainly a big help to "being the most interesting candidate."
My Study Schedule
I studied on-and-off for I estimate 6 months. All together, I think I spent around 40 hours studying. I was studying for my professional engineering exam concurrently (which I probably spent twice as much time on), and have been super busy with work, so I didn't have a ton of time to study for the GMAT. Generally I would study for 1 or 2 hours throughout the week, then a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday.
That may seem low, but quality study is more important than quantity study, and I think I really figured out how to study with high quality.
Resources Used and Recommended
Be forewarned, I took a VERY different approach than most people do. I think this really is the approach you need to go from "good to great." Please note that I am a NATIVE English speaker. This approach is going to be much harder - if not impossible - if you're a non-native speaker. I'm not trying to be exclusionary when I say that this post is really written to native English speakers that already have a strong basis, but rather, I'm speaking of my experience... and my experience is as a native English speaker that already had a strong basis.
Below are the resource I used - how much I recommend it out of a scale of 1-10.
Quant
MBA practice exams - 10
OG - 10
GMATClub (non-OG questions) - 5
GMATClub (user explanations) - 1
TTP - 1
Magoosh - 1
Verbal - SC
MBA practice exams - 10
OG - 10
GMATClub (non-OG questions) - 1
GMATClub (user explanations) - 4
Manhattan - 2
Magoosh - 1
GMATNinja - 8
Verbal - RC
I did not study or practice RC.
Verbal - CR
I did not study or practice CR.
IR
I did not study or practice IR.
AW
I did not study or practice AW.
I'm a big fan of cooking, and one of my favorite celebrity chefs is Jacques Pepin. Here's a video of Jacques Pepin making a dish of pears in caramel sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfWgZeDHgtY.
If the analogy I'm trying to draw with that recipe and the GMAT isn't immediately clear, let me elaborate. The mistake that I think many applicants make (and would even extend this to the schooling system and workplace for countless engineers) is that they try to learn a formula or method to try and solve a problem. Countless students learn "OK, this is a rate problem. First you define these variables, set them equal to each other, and solve the equation to give you an answer. Plug in the numbers and you have your result!"
That is a very procedural method to solving a problem, but the GMAT isn't a procedural exam. It's a logical exam. My opinion is that sets you up for failure. You're learning how to solve a specific problem, but you're not understanding the fundamental logic of why that is the correct way to solve the problem. Then, when you have a problem that is 1% different on the actual exam, you're not going to know what to do! You could solve that if you had one more step into your procedure, but since you don't understand the logic behind the question, you don't know what the missing step is.
Just as Jacques Pepin says sometimes you need to cook the pears a little longer, or sometimes you need to add a little water - you too must have a fundamental understanding of why each solution is correct so you can adjust your problem solving recipe accordingly.
This is why I DO NOT recommend doing anything outside of solving OG questions. Courses that I tried like Magoosh or TTP developed a very procedural logic, and I knew that's the opposite of what I needed to do. Additionally, I DO NOT recommend EVER looking up or asking anyone else on how to solve a quant problem. You're better of struggling through it yourself until you fundamentally understand the logic of why the right answer is right. I don't care if that takes 5 minutes, an hour, 5 hours, or 5 days.
Take Away #1 - Doing one problem correctly is a million times more valuable than doing 100 problems by just reciting another person's solution without fundamentally understanding of the problem.
I really can't stress this enough. You're better off deriving a formula than you are looking it up - I guarantee you that you'll remember if better if you struggle through the derivation. I strongly recommend you identify a list of quant topics, and solve OG questions pertaining to each of those topics until you've mastered each subject. I really believe doing that - and not using any other resource - is the best way to achieve Q51.
The other thing to note is there's often ways to solve several problems, and most resources only show you one procedure. But you should really find the procedure that works the best for you. The example that immediately comes to mind are an uncommon-but-not-rare class of minimization/maximization problems on the GMAT. I personally solve those types of problems using calculus. But no resource ever recommends using calculus - they recommend a longer, more difficult, more prone to error algebraic approach. Which makes sense - TTP, Magoosh, Manhattan, etc are for profit companies and by making sure their content is available for everyone (eg - those that don't know calculus) is a logical business decision to increase their customer base. But that doesn't mean it's the best way to take the GMAT.
Similarly, for Verbal SC, a lot of resources focus on grammar and verbal rules. I never bothered to study any of those. SC isn't about grammar - it's about meaning. I focused on understanding the meaning each problem was conveying rather than trying to apply a set of rules to them.
With verbal it's a little tougher - a quant question is clear cut "this is the answer" regardless of anyone else's opinions. But a verbal, it's muddier. The GMAT imposes certain rules and best practices that aren't universal truths like mathematical expressions are, and so you often do need some other guide (eg: GMATClub) to help explain what truth the GMAT is imposing for a given question. Other than that, though, my logic is pretty similar with the verbal part of the exam. This is why I rated GMATClub user explanations higher for verbal than I did for Quant, and I'm a big fan of GMATNinja. (SC is by far my weakest area on the test, and he's been a huge help there!)
For me, I was a little rusty in the beginning with statistics and geometry, but after about 5 hours of studying, I felt like I understood the topics. My recommendation is that you do that for every topic until you master it - not even bothering to time yourself. And then once you've mastered every topic... start doing them faster while timing yourself.
Take Away #2 - First perfect your performance, then improve your speed.
I've seen recommendations that say "skip a question if you can't solve it in two minutes. I strongly disagree with that. If you want a great score, you should try to be perfect. Don't skip any questions - stay on a given question until you're confident you know the answer, and hope you can make up the time later with questions you can answer faster. In fact, in my 780 take, I spent over 15 minutes on the very first quant question! It was a wild one and I was being a dummy.
Sure, maybe that causes you to get a few wrong later and really tanks your score, but you should want to play for an upside. I'd rather have a 10% chance at getting a Q51 (by making sure I get that first question right and then getting quicker questions later to make up the time difference) than a 90% chance of getting Q49 (by guessing on that first question and having more time throughout the exam.) When you actually look at my score history - I got Q48 on Mock 2 and Exam 1. That was because I ran out of time. I was playing for the upside and it came back to bite me. Every other exam (other than mock 1 which was when I hadn't yet mastered the material), I got Q50 or Q51.
To draw an analogy to football (American) - if it's 4th and 2 on your opponents 20, statistically, you should go for it and try to convert the first down. It's not even close. But most coaches try kicking a field goal because they don't know how to play for the upside. A field goal is just a participation trophy for a failed drive just as a Q49 is a participation trophy for a failed exam - not something I'm interested in.
Take Away #3 - Play for the upside, don't play silly "time management" or "guessing" games.
Prepare Your Body
So, I think this is a little bit underrated here. The difference between, say, 740 and 760 is actually really small. It could be as little as 1 or 2 questions, so I think making sure your physically ready to take the test can make a huge difference. It could be just one small mistake or split second decision. Here's things I did before my tests to help out:
Food: The night before/day off the exam, I changed my diet up a little bit. I normally eat moderate carbs, protein, and fat, but instead, I ate low protein, high carb, high fat. I'm not a nutritionist, but my logic was the brain uses sugar for fuel, so I wanted to make sure I had plenty of carbs in my system. And it takes energy for your body to digest protein, so I didn't want to have a big steak before my exam or anything like that. Usually I had pasta the night before, and coffee and strawberries+whipped cream the morning of.
Exercise: Soo... I'm fat, but really physically active. The night before the exam, I ran a 10K. It seemed to help out.
Sleep: I took 3 melatonin pills (available off the shelf in the USA) the night before to help regulate my sleep schedule and make sure I was taking the exam on 9 hours of sleep.
Practice: I did not study at all for 3 days before each exam. I wanted to stay fresh and not spend all my mental energy on practice questions - it was more important to save that for the real exam. I'm a big fan of chess, and I did play a lot of chess right before my exams though. I feel like it helped me keep sharp and think logically. I actually also coincidentally hit my highest blitz rating of 2057!
Maybe this is all pseudoscience, but it worked for me. I felt great. And sometimes the placebo effect is real, so just take advantage of it!
Testing Strategy
I did quant first every time. I regret not trying verbal first at least once. My logic was that it's easier to make careless mistakes in quant than verbal, so I wanted to do quant when I was freshest. But thinking back, spending an hour on the GMAT got me "into the zone" and completely tunnel visioned on my monitor, so I was probably more careful on verbal than quant. I would recommend trying out both orders. I would not seriously consider the AWA/IR option first.
Additionally, I did not take any breaks between sections. I immediately moved onto the next one. When I'm in focus, I didn't want to break that focus. I just wanted to keep going and kill the exam!
Finally, both of my in-person exams were taken with masks on due to COVID. Man... that was a challenge. I was playing with my mask the entire time. I use the type of masks that you tie rather than the elastics that go around your ears, since the elastics tend to start hurting my ears after a while. Unfortunately, the ones you tie are hard to adjust, so I was kind of stuck with how I initially had my mask situated. But there's unfortunately no way around it.
Conclusion
I'm happy with my GMAT score... and am submitting apps in R1. I hope to have a "full MBA journey" post come January!
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
Good to Great
One of my favorite business books is Good to Great by Jim Collins, which is where the theme of this post was borrowed from. The book describes how some good companies became great companies, and why many good companies never became great companies. My first GMAT was good - 740 - but knowing my GPA started with the number 2 (and I'm an American! It's easier to get away with low GPA's if you're international since they don't factor into the class average, but as an America, a 2 is a big "yikes"), I knew good wasn't good. I needed to be great.
Summary of my progress:
Mock 1 - 700, Q46, V40, IR8
Mock 2 - 720, Q48, V40
Mock 3 - 750, Q51, V40
Test 1 - 740 Q48, V44, IR8 (online so no AW)
Mock 4 - 780, Q51, V46
Test 2 - 760 Q50, V42, IR8, AW6
Mock 5 - 780, Q51, V46
Test 3 - 780, Q51, V46, IR8, AW6 (the mba website is crashing when I try to generate a link, I'll try again when I get home tonight so I can get that score verified too)
My Background
Degree: Engineering
Institution: Mid-Tier public school
GPA: 2.9
Work experience: 1.5 years as an engineer at company 1, 2.5 years as an engineer for company 2. The companies are small and aren't well known and neither company has ever sent an employee to a top 50 MBA program.
My Goals
I'm currently around $150K TC at my current job - and I live in a very, very, very low cost of living area. (For reference, NerdWallet's cost of living calculator says that the equivalent in NYC is $426,395.) So in addition to having about 5 red marks on my profile, I really can't consider anything outside of a T15 from an ROI perspective.
Jim Collins has another book - Built to Last - that introduces another concept called BHAG's. Jim Collins describes BHAG's as such:
Quote:
Some famous BHAG's are:
Honda in the 1970's: "Yamaha wo tsubusu!" ("We will destroy Yamaha!")
Merck in the 1930's: "Transform this company from a chemical manufacturer into one of the preeminent drug-making companies in the world."
SpaceX now: "Enable human exploration and settlement of Mars."
Knowing I had an uphill battle ahead of me, I set my own BHAG:
Me, now: "I will be the most interesting candidate in any given application pool."
That's not "most qualified" or "most likely to be admitted." That's "most interesting." I figure that with my background, I need a champion or 5 to help push me through admissions. And the way to find a champion is to be interesting.
I can't change my undergraduate GPA, and I can't retroactively attend MIT instead of a middling public university. But one facet I could control was my GMAT score. So as part of my BHAG, I wanted to have the highest GMAT score in any given class. After doing some research on class profiles, I set my GMAT target of 780. That's likely to be the highest in any given class - which is certainly a big help to "being the most interesting candidate."
My Study Schedule
I studied on-and-off for I estimate 6 months. All together, I think I spent around 40 hours studying. I was studying for my professional engineering exam concurrently (which I probably spent twice as much time on), and have been super busy with work, so I didn't have a ton of time to study for the GMAT. Generally I would study for 1 or 2 hours throughout the week, then a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday.
That may seem low, but quality study is more important than quantity study, and I think I really figured out how to study with high quality.
Resources Used and Recommended
Be forewarned, I took a VERY different approach than most people do. I think this really is the approach you need to go from "good to great." Please note that I am a NATIVE English speaker. This approach is going to be much harder - if not impossible - if you're a non-native speaker. I'm not trying to be exclusionary when I say that this post is really written to native English speakers that already have a strong basis, but rather, I'm speaking of my experience... and my experience is as a native English speaker that already had a strong basis.
Below are the resource I used - how much I recommend it out of a scale of 1-10.
Quant
MBA practice exams - 10
OG - 10
GMATClub (non-OG questions) - 5
GMATClub (user explanations) - 1
TTP - 1
Magoosh - 1
Verbal - SC
MBA practice exams - 10
OG - 10
GMATClub (non-OG questions) - 1
GMATClub (user explanations) - 4
Manhattan - 2
Magoosh - 1
GMATNinja - 8
Verbal - RC
I did not study or practice RC.
Verbal - CR
I did not study or practice CR.
IR
I did not study or practice IR.
AW
I did not study or practice AW.
I'm a big fan of cooking, and one of my favorite celebrity chefs is Jacques Pepin. Here's a video of Jacques Pepin making a dish of pears in caramel sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfWgZeDHgtY.
If the analogy I'm trying to draw with that recipe and the GMAT isn't immediately clear, let me elaborate. The mistake that I think many applicants make (and would even extend this to the schooling system and workplace for countless engineers) is that they try to learn a formula or method to try and solve a problem. Countless students learn "OK, this is a rate problem. First you define these variables, set them equal to each other, and solve the equation to give you an answer. Plug in the numbers and you have your result!"
That is a very procedural method to solving a problem, but the GMAT isn't a procedural exam. It's a logical exam. My opinion is that sets you up for failure. You're learning how to solve a specific problem, but you're not understanding the fundamental logic of why that is the correct way to solve the problem. Then, when you have a problem that is 1% different on the actual exam, you're not going to know what to do! You could solve that if you had one more step into your procedure, but since you don't understand the logic behind the question, you don't know what the missing step is.
Just as Jacques Pepin says sometimes you need to cook the pears a little longer, or sometimes you need to add a little water - you too must have a fundamental understanding of why each solution is correct so you can adjust your problem solving recipe accordingly.
This is why I DO NOT recommend doing anything outside of solving OG questions. Courses that I tried like Magoosh or TTP developed a very procedural logic, and I knew that's the opposite of what I needed to do. Additionally, I DO NOT recommend EVER looking up or asking anyone else on how to solve a quant problem. You're better of struggling through it yourself until you fundamentally understand the logic of why the right answer is right. I don't care if that takes 5 minutes, an hour, 5 hours, or 5 days.
Take Away #1 - Doing one problem correctly is a million times more valuable than doing 100 problems by just reciting another person's solution without fundamentally understanding of the problem.
I really can't stress this enough. You're better off deriving a formula than you are looking it up - I guarantee you that you'll remember if better if you struggle through the derivation. I strongly recommend you identify a list of quant topics, and solve OG questions pertaining to each of those topics until you've mastered each subject. I really believe doing that - and not using any other resource - is the best way to achieve Q51.
The other thing to note is there's often ways to solve several problems, and most resources only show you one procedure. But you should really find the procedure that works the best for you. The example that immediately comes to mind are an uncommon-but-not-rare class of minimization/maximization problems on the GMAT. I personally solve those types of problems using calculus. But no resource ever recommends using calculus - they recommend a longer, more difficult, more prone to error algebraic approach. Which makes sense - TTP, Magoosh, Manhattan, etc are for profit companies and by making sure their content is available for everyone (eg - those that don't know calculus) is a logical business decision to increase their customer base. But that doesn't mean it's the best way to take the GMAT.
Similarly, for Verbal SC, a lot of resources focus on grammar and verbal rules. I never bothered to study any of those. SC isn't about grammar - it's about meaning. I focused on understanding the meaning each problem was conveying rather than trying to apply a set of rules to them.
With verbal it's a little tougher - a quant question is clear cut "this is the answer" regardless of anyone else's opinions. But a verbal, it's muddier. The GMAT imposes certain rules and best practices that aren't universal truths like mathematical expressions are, and so you often do need some other guide (eg: GMATClub) to help explain what truth the GMAT is imposing for a given question. Other than that, though, my logic is pretty similar with the verbal part of the exam. This is why I rated GMATClub user explanations higher for verbal than I did for Quant, and I'm a big fan of GMATNinja. (SC is by far my weakest area on the test, and he's been a huge help there!)
For me, I was a little rusty in the beginning with statistics and geometry, but after about 5 hours of studying, I felt like I understood the topics. My recommendation is that you do that for every topic until you master it - not even bothering to time yourself. And then once you've mastered every topic... start doing them faster while timing yourself.
Take Away #2 - First perfect your performance, then improve your speed.
I've seen recommendations that say "skip a question if you can't solve it in two minutes. I strongly disagree with that. If you want a great score, you should try to be perfect. Don't skip any questions - stay on a given question until you're confident you know the answer, and hope you can make up the time later with questions you can answer faster. In fact, in my 780 take, I spent over 15 minutes on the very first quant question! It was a wild one and I was being a dummy.
Sure, maybe that causes you to get a few wrong later and really tanks your score, but you should want to play for an upside. I'd rather have a 10% chance at getting a Q51 (by making sure I get that first question right and then getting quicker questions later to make up the time difference) than a 90% chance of getting Q49 (by guessing on that first question and having more time throughout the exam.) When you actually look at my score history - I got Q48 on Mock 2 and Exam 1. That was because I ran out of time. I was playing for the upside and it came back to bite me. Every other exam (other than mock 1 which was when I hadn't yet mastered the material), I got Q50 or Q51.
To draw an analogy to football (American) - if it's 4th and 2 on your opponents 20, statistically, you should go for it and try to convert the first down. It's not even close. But most coaches try kicking a field goal because they don't know how to play for the upside. A field goal is just a participation trophy for a failed drive just as a Q49 is a participation trophy for a failed exam - not something I'm interested in.
Take Away #3 - Play for the upside, don't play silly "time management" or "guessing" games.
Prepare Your Body
So, I think this is a little bit underrated here. The difference between, say, 740 and 760 is actually really small. It could be as little as 1 or 2 questions, so I think making sure your physically ready to take the test can make a huge difference. It could be just one small mistake or split second decision. Here's things I did before my tests to help out:
Food: The night before/day off the exam, I changed my diet up a little bit. I normally eat moderate carbs, protein, and fat, but instead, I ate low protein, high carb, high fat. I'm not a nutritionist, but my logic was the brain uses sugar for fuel, so I wanted to make sure I had plenty of carbs in my system. And it takes energy for your body to digest protein, so I didn't want to have a big steak before my exam or anything like that. Usually I had pasta the night before, and coffee and strawberries+whipped cream the morning of.
Exercise: Soo... I'm fat, but really physically active. The night before the exam, I ran a 10K. It seemed to help out.
Sleep: I took 3 melatonin pills (available off the shelf in the USA) the night before to help regulate my sleep schedule and make sure I was taking the exam on 9 hours of sleep.
Practice: I did not study at all for 3 days before each exam. I wanted to stay fresh and not spend all my mental energy on practice questions - it was more important to save that for the real exam. I'm a big fan of chess, and I did play a lot of chess right before my exams though. I feel like it helped me keep sharp and think logically. I actually also coincidentally hit my highest blitz rating of 2057!
Maybe this is all pseudoscience, but it worked for me. I felt great. And sometimes the placebo effect is real, so just take advantage of it!
Testing Strategy
I did quant first every time. I regret not trying verbal first at least once. My logic was that it's easier to make careless mistakes in quant than verbal, so I wanted to do quant when I was freshest. But thinking back, spending an hour on the GMAT got me "into the zone" and completely tunnel visioned on my monitor, so I was probably more careful on verbal than quant. I would recommend trying out both orders. I would not seriously consider the AWA/IR option first.
Additionally, I did not take any breaks between sections. I immediately moved onto the next one. When I'm in focus, I didn't want to break that focus. I just wanted to keep going and kill the exam!
Finally, both of my in-person exams were taken with masks on due to COVID. Man... that was a challenge. I was playing with my mask the entire time. I use the type of masks that you tie rather than the elastics that go around your ears, since the elastics tend to start hurting my ears after a while. Unfortunately, the ones you tie are hard to adjust, so I was kind of stuck with how I initially had my mask situated. But there's unfortunately no way around it.
Conclusion
I'm happy with my GMAT score... and am submitting apps in R1. I hope to have a "full MBA journey" post come January!
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
11 Sep 2020, 11:59
Kudos
Bookmarks
Congrats on an amazing score!! Thank you so much for sharing.
