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Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never

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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2019, 00:48
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daagh wrote:
Quote:
Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

C. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as

E. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did


One might get the feeling that C and E mean the same thing. It is not so in that C has a subtle but substantial error of intent. C says that the listing arrangements never evolved in the US just as in the same way the arrangements did not evolve in most other developed countries. In other words, it tends to mean that in other countries also they did not evolve. This is a grave flaw. The original intent is that while in other countries the arrangements evolved smoothly, in the US, they did not.


great explanation.
I want to make it more clear. the point here is the word NEVER

choice C means
arrangements between X and Y NEVER involved in US as they NEVER involved in other countries
choice E means
arrangements between X and Y NEVER involved in US as they involved in other countries.

so, the meaning in choice C is opposite because NEVER must be appear in the second arm of comparison.

thank you DAAD.
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2019, 07:05
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While I see that choice C creates ambiguity, I don't agree that C is wrong because of a wrong comparison. It's not comparing "never evolved" to "other countries". With "in most other developed countries", what comes after "as" is not a noun. So to me, Choice C is comparing "xxxxx in the U.S." & "xxxxx in other countries". I do agree that xxxx is ambiguous in this case.
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 15 May 2019, 11:40
Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

A. among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have
B. in the United States among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they did
C. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as
D. in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have
E. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did


Hi Experts,

Can you please help on the below Query

daagh SaraiGMAT

Option D :

Linking arrangements in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have. (EVOLVED)
Since evolved is already present in the sentence, we can use this construction


Option E :

Linking arrangements between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did. (EVOLVE)
Since evolve is not present elsewhere in the sentence , we cannot use this construction.


e g :

Bob has eaten more than Joe did. (eat)

sentence above is incorrect as eat is not present elsewhere in the sentence.

and the correct sentence will be : Bob has eaten more than Joe has. (eaten)


Please provide further clarification on this topic.


Thanks
Vidhya N
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 15 May 2019, 11:42
nigina93 wrote:
I read all the thread and did some research in MGMAT SC guide of last edition. Is C wrong only for a meaning ambiguity or is there any structural error? I think the latter is true and here are some explanations from MGMAT.

I will jump up as a clown. (= in a clown suit).

There is no comparison here because this sentence just means that I will be dressed in a clown suit. The guide says that “to force the comparison as meaning, use a clause. To make a clause, include a verb”.

I will jump up as clowns do. (= like actual clowns)

As you see, you need a verb for a comparison to work and you cannot just omit it. Additionally, in C if there were a comma before “as in most other developed countries”, then this part would act as an adverbial modifier applying to the whole close “Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States”. Then C would mean that “Linking arrangement evolved neither in US nor in other developed countries” and look as below:

Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States, as in most other developed countries.

MGMAT says that as can also appear with a phrase, rather than a full clause when as clause acts as a modifier. Here is an example similar to C with comma:

As in previous case, the judge took an early brake.

However, there is no comma in C and thus “as in most other developed countries” has to be read not as a modifier but as a part of comparison as trying to convey. But for proper comparison we need a verb and E gives us that lacking “they did”, avoiding the mistake made by C. Therefore, C is incorrect not for ambiguity but for wrong structure.

Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States as they did in most other developed countries. (Correct E)

However, please note that you may see as being used with neither verb nor comma, but in those cases as may be used not as a comparison maker but as a preposition or adverbial modifier, examples:

I think of you as my friend. (= equation, used as a preposition and means that you are my friend)
I think of you as my friend does. (= both I and my friend think of you)

Eyewitness describes the missing passenger as his lawyer. (Passenger appears to be his lawyer)
Eyewitness describes the missing passenger as his lawyer does. (Passenger and his lawyer describe in the same way)

There is a meaning shift when like is used instead of as:

I will jump up as a clown. (= in the clown suit)
I will jump up like a clown. (= in the same way)

Note that in the second sentence we don’t need a comma before like, otherwise the meaning would be “clown jumps and so do I”. To mean in the same way we don’t a comma, example from MGMAT:

My grandpa eats like a child, slurping loudly and helping himself to plenty of ketchup.

One more thing to note: don’t cross out as soon as you see such sentences as “I think of you as my friend” and “I will jump up as a clown” among answer choices, anticipating either like instead of as or verb after as. These sentences may very well be correct. Another important thing is that most experts say that comma usage is not tested on GMAT. However, there are substantial meaning shifts resulting from comma:

I want to coach divers like Greg Louganis. (= divers who are like Greg)
I want to coach divers, like Greg Louganis. (= Greg coaches divers; I want to do so)

You should walk as she wants you to walk. (= in the same way)
You should walk, as she wants you to walk. (= because she wants)

Students learn to think as their professor does. (= in the same way as their professor thinks)
Students learn to think, as their professor does. (= students and their professor learn to think)

Last but not least, as is differently used than as__ as__ and more/less__ than__. While using as__ as__ and more/less__ than__ you can omit units, verbs, and even whole clauses from the second term if there is no ambiguity, for example:

I walk as fast as (I walked) when I was younger.
Linking arrangements... evolved as fast in the United States as (they did) in most other developed countries.

The clothes looked more appealing inside the store than (they did) on the racks outside.
Linking arrangements... evolved faster in the United States than (they did) in most other developed countries.

But as I already have mentioned, we need a verb for as to work as a comparison, thus:

E) Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States as they did in most other developed countries.

The post ended up bigger than I expected. Please, find attached the very chapters from MGMAT I used for this post. In case you need a help with GMAT books please contact with me. I will be happy to share.



Such a detailed explanation. I found answer to more than one question. Thank you very much. :heart
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 15 May 2019, 12:10
nigina93 wrote:
I read all the thread and did some research in MGMAT SC guide of last edition. Is C wrong only for a meaning ambiguity or is there any structural error? I think the latter is true and here are some explanations from MGMAT.

I will jump up as a clown. (= in a clown suit).

There is no comparison here because this sentence just means that I will be dressed in a clown suit. The guide says that “to force the comparison as meaning, use a clause. To make a clause, include a verb”.

I will jump up as clowns do. (= like actual clowns)

As you see, you need a verb for a comparison to work and you cannot just omit it. Additionally, in C if there were a comma before “as in most other developed countries”, then this part would act as an adverbial modifier applying to the whole close “Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States”. Then C would mean that “Linking arrangement evolved neither in US nor in other developed countries” and look as below:

Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States, as in most other developed countries.

MGMAT says that as can also appear with a phrase, rather than a full clause when as clause acts as a modifier. Here is an example similar to C with comma:

As in previous case, the judge took an early brake.

However, there is no comma in C and thus “as in most other developed countries” has to be read not as a modifier but as a part of comparison as trying to convey. But for proper comparison we need a verb and E gives us that lacking “they did”, avoiding the mistake made by C. Therefore, C is incorrect not for ambiguity but for wrong structure.

Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States as they did in most other developed countries. (Correct E)

However, please note that you may see as being used with neither verb nor comma, but in those cases as may be used not as a comparison maker but as a preposition or adverbial modifier, examples:

I think of you as my friend. (= equation, used as a preposition and means that you are my friend)
I think of you as my friend does. (= both I and my friend think of you)

Eyewitness describes the missing passenger as his lawyer. (Passenger appears to be his lawyer)
Eyewitness describes the missing passenger as his lawyer does. (Passenger and his lawyer describe in the same way)

There is a meaning shift when like is used instead of as:

I will jump up as a clown. (= in the clown suit)
I will jump up like a clown. (= in the same way)

Note that in the second sentence we don’t need a comma before like, otherwise the meaning would be “clown jumps and so do I”. To mean in the same way we don’t a comma, example from MGMAT:

My grandpa eats like a child, slurping loudly and helping himself to plenty of ketchup.

One more thing to note: don’t cross out as soon as you see such sentences as “I think of you as my friend” and “I will jump up as a clown” among answer choices, anticipating either like instead of as or verb after as. These sentences may very well be correct. Another important thing is that most experts say that comma usage is not tested on GMAT. However, there are substantial meaning shifts resulting from comma:

I want to coach divers like Greg Louganis. (= divers who are like Greg)
I want to coach divers, like Greg Louganis. (= Greg coaches divers; I want to do so)

You should walk as she wants you to walk. (= in the same way)
You should walk, as she wants you to walk. (= because she wants)

Students learn to think as their professor does. (= in the same way as their professor thinks)
Students learn to think, as their professor does. (= students and their professor learn to think)

Last but not least, as is differently used than as__ as__ and more/less__ than__. While using as__ as__ and more/less__ than__ you can omit units, verbs, and even whole clauses from the second term if there is no ambiguity, for example:

I walk as fast as (I walked) when I was younger.
Linking arrangements... evolved as fast in the United States as (they did) in most other developed countries.

The clothes looked more appealing inside the store than (they did) on the racks outside.
Linking arrangements... evolved faster in the United States than (they did) in most other developed countries.

But as I already have mentioned, we need a verb for as to work as a comparison, thus:

E) Linking arrangements... never evolved in the United States as they did in most other developed countries.

The post ended up bigger than I expected. Please, find attached the very chapters from MGMAT I used for this post. In case you need a help with GMAT books please contact with me. I will be happy to share.



Please could you tell how I can improve my SC? I am having so much problem with it?
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 16 May 2019, 00:46
Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

A. among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have
B. in the United States among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they did
C. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as
D. in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have
E. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did


Hi Experts,

Can you please help on the below Query

daagh SaraiGMAT

Option D :

Linking arrangements in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have. (EVOLVED)
Since evolved is already present in the sentence, we can use this construction


Option E :

Linking arrangements between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did. (EVOLVE)
Since evolve is not present elsewhere in the sentence , we cannot use this construction.


e g :

Bob has eaten more than Joe did. (eat)

sentence above is incorrect as eat is not present elsewhere in the sentence.

and the correct sentence will be : Bob has eaten more than Joe has. (eaten)


Please provide further clarification on this topic.


Thanks
Vidhya N
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2019, 01:04
the q becomes easier if the difference between as... as... and as comparison markers are realized. After as... as... you can omit repeating words, but after as you need a verb for a construction to work.
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2019, 01:08
thangvietnam wrote:
daagh wrote:
Quote:
Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

C. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as

E. between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did


One might get the feeling that C and E mean the same thing. It is not so in that C has a subtle but substantial error of intent. C says that the listing arrangements never evolved in the US just as in the same way the arrangements did not evolve in most other developed countries. In other words, it tends to mean that in other countries also they did not evolve. This is a grave flaw. The original intent is that while in other countries the arrangements evolved smoothly, in the US, they did not.


great explanation.
I want to make it more clear. the point here is the word NEVER

choice C means
arrangements between X and Y NEVER involved in US as they NEVER involved in other countries
choice E means
arrangements between X and Y NEVER involved in US as they involved in other countries.

so, the meaning in choice C is opposite because NEVER must be appear in the second arm of comparison.

thank you DAAD.



Your analysis of choice C is wrong. C cannot mean what you said since the important part of it such as 'verb' is omitted. For 'as' to work as a comparison you surely need a verb after as. Read the most helpful community reply on the previous page. Reading your comment others may follow your incorrect opinion.
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2019, 23:46
generis wrote:
hazelnut wrote:
GMAT® Official Guide 2020

Practice Question
Online test bank question number : SC48420.01

Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

(A) among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have
(B) in the United States among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they did
(C) between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as [not parallel]
(D) in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have
(E) between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did


• Split # 1: Linking arrangements must modify secondary schools and workplace
Linking arrangements refer to [what did not happen between] secondary schools and the workplace

Options B and D incorrectly place "in the United States" immediately after "linking arrangements."
Eliminate B and D

• Split #2 - between, not among

Although secondary schools and workplaces are numerous (more than two),
we still use between in this situation because:
1) the linkage is between two sets of institutions; and
2) the logic of the sentence suggests a bilateral (two-way) connection between two "places"
rather than a web of connections among many different kinds of places

Options A and B incorrectly use among rather than between.
Eliminate A. (B is already gone.)

• Split #3 - Parallelism

Comparison word: Xs never evolved AS ________

(1) The verb on the RHS of the comparison should be DID, not have
(2) there must be a subject and a verb on the right hand side of the comparison
because as should be followed by a clause and parallelism must be maintained

"Evolved" is a simple past tense verb.
The verb in the first part of the comparison determines the tense of the verb in the second part.
We use the verbs do, does, and did often to stand in for other verbs (so that we do not have to repeat the verb phrase)
Did can substitute for any verb in the first part of a comparison except
-- a TO BE verb; or
-- TO HAVE if have is an auxiliary (helping verb)
Did can "stand in" for the action verb "evolved."

Have is not a past tense verb;
Xs between Ys and Zs never evolved as Xs have is not parallel.
DID, correctly, is past tense, just as evolved is

Options D and A incorrectly use HAVE rather than DID.

Option C needs a subject and a verb after the as
-- as should be followed by a clause
-- "in most other developed countries" is just a prepositional phrase.
It has no subject or verb and is not a clause -- but we need a clause for AS.
-- Xs between Ys and Zs in the U.S. never evolved as [] in other countries is not parallel
Eliminate C (A and D are already gone :) )

Answer E


Hello Generis,

In order to maintain parallelism, it is not necessary that the parallel elements be in same tense, right?

So how is "have" incorrect when compared to "did"?

Here's an example from Manhattan blog: My cousin joined the Air Force in 1989 and will be discharged in four years.

Other verbal experts, please feel free to pitch in!
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2019, 16:16
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rocky03 We do want to keep tenses parallel unless there is a reason to switch. In the example from our book, it makes sense that someone joined the Air Force in the past and will be discharged in the future. However, in this SC question, we are comparing what has occurred in the US vs. what has occurred in other countries, so there's no reason to switch tenses.
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Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2019, 20:54
Here is my thinking:

Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they have in most other developed countries.

This sentence contains parallelism, and as "in most other developed countries" is at the end of the second clause, so "in the US" should be at the end of the first clause, too.
=> strike out B and D

Linking among A and B is unidiomatic
=> eliminate A

(C) between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as => WRONG because of comparing a clause with a phrase
(E) between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved in the United States as they did => CORRECT parallelism: A never evolved in the US as B did in other countries
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2019, 23:24
For clarity,
(D)Linking arrangements in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as they have


D actually says this:
Linking arrangements in the United States between secondary schools and the workplace never evolved as Linking arrangements in the United States have in other countries
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Re: Linking arrangements among secondary schools and the workplace never   [#permalink] 10 Dec 2019, 23:24

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