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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
Skywalker18 wrote:
AbdurRakib wrote:
Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

(A) area, the number of which will however
(B) area; the size of the population, however, will
(C) area, however the number of wolves will
(D) area; the number of which will, however,
(E) area, when the size of the population will, however,


In A, the pronoun which tries to refer to designated recovery area and this reference is illogical.

Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population, the number of which --> Which here refers to "wolf population".

Can which refer to wolf ? (I know that we need wolves because number of wolf is incorrect but if we ignore this fact for the moment) I also think wolf here is just an adjective that modifies population.(Pronouns can only refer to Noun but wolf in the phrase wolf population in an adjective)

In other words - xxxx adjective noun, which --- Can which refer ONLY to the adjective ? I think it can refer to the entire phrase - adjective noun


Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the population of wolves, the number of which --> here which can refer to wolves because the number of population of wolves DOES NOT make sense.

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , VeritasPrepBrian, GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber , RonPurewal , egmat , other experts - please enlighten



LauraOrion,

Based on this point:

Quote:
Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the population of wolves, the number of which --> here which can refer to wolves because the number of population of wolves DOES NOT make sense.
by Skywalker18, why is the part after semi-colon in option D not a sentence?
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
akshaykotha - As stated in the OA, the portion after the semicolon isn't a complete sentence. It's a modifier and because of that it needs to be part of the sentence that it's modifying. There is also a logical error, as pointed out, so you can eliminate for either reason.
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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Hey!
Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

'the number of which' does not modify 'wolf population'. If it does, according to you, how can the sentence mean number of population? Population is uncountable noun. Option A would go wrong because there are two independent clauses and they are joined by a mere comma. Independent clauses can be joined by a semi colon. Independent clauses must stand for itself. So option A, C and E can be cancelled out.

In option D, the wordings are same as option A except for the usage of semi colon and comma. The phrase "a number of which" should only be used directly after the noun that "which" is modifying: "... wolves, a number of which..." and in option A & D, 'which' refers to area. Totally distorts the meaning.

Option B, which I believe is the answer, firstly uses semicolon to separate independent causes, and no incorrect reference of 'which' and most importantly, the reference of wolf population as 'size of population' is correct unlike other options which said number of population.

Hope it helps!
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
EncounterGMAT First of all, THANK YOU for the great explanation! The concept of an uncountable noun makes total sense to me now. Although now I have clear reasons why option A, C, D, and E are eliminated, I still have a few questions lingering on my mind. I want to get the most out every question, hope you don't mind. :)
If you can please answer these questions for me?

1. Are you implying that option E is an independent sentence as well? If yes, then how come? Isn't that a relative clause which cannot stand on its own?

2. About option C, could you tell what the word "however" is modifying? Is it modifying "are scheduled" (which according to the O.G answer explanation it is) or is it modifying the "number of wolves"? Would a comma after the word "however" in option C make any difference in terms of what it modifies?

3. You didn't answer me this question.
The explanation in the O.G says that in option D, the semicolon creates confusion since it is not followed by an independent clause. I don’t see why option D is not an independent clause?
D. area; the number of which will, however, ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.- How can this not stand on its own?
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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Next month (modifies the main subject following comma), state wildlife officials (main subject) are scheduled (main verb) 'to take over the job of increasing the wolf population' (this sentence modifies main verb) 'in the federally designated recovery area' (this sentence modifies increasing the wolf population), 'the number of which' (dependent clause modifying area) will however ultimately 'be dictated' (verb) by the number of prey in the area.

Understanding meaning of a sentence would clear 50% of everyone's doubt in SC questions. So the paragraph states that some officials scheduled to takeover a job to handle the growing wolf population in some areas. However, the size of the population will ultimately be determined by the number of prey in the area.

Being able to spot an independent clause and a dependent clause is key to identifying the type of sentence. An independent clause contains a subject and a predicate and makes sense by itself. Independent clauses can be joined either by using a semicolon or by using a comma followed by a coordinating conjunction (and, but, or, etc.).

I have tried to answer your doubts below your questions:

gurudabl wrote:
EncounterGMAT First of all, THANK YOU for the great explanation! The concept of an uncountable noun makes total sense to me now. Although now I have clear reasons why option A, C, D, and E are eliminated, I still have a few questions lingering on my mind. I want to get the most out every question, hope you don't mind. :)
If you can please answer these questions for me?

1. Are you implying that option E is an independent sentence as well? If yes, then how come? Isn't that a relative clause which cannot stand on its own?
Answer- No. Option E is not independent for the above said reason. If it had semicolon, we could have considered it. Still, the option is wrong. Here's why. Option E states ''area, when the size of the population will, however,'' -the original sentence is speaking about a plan, which means something intended for future, but the sentence is using present tense. So the meaning would be weird. Use of 'however', if we check for more mistakes, is not required i.e basically useless here.


2. About option C, could you tell what the word "however" is modifying? Is it modifying "are scheduled" (which according to the O.G answer explanation it is) or is it modifying the "number of wolves"? Would a comma after the word "however" in option C make any difference in terms of what it modifies?
Answer- Option C- ''area, however the number of wolves will'' Firstly, from 'however' starts the independent clause(it has its own subject and verb). Instead, they used comma before 'however'. According to me, it doesn't matter wherever you put the comma(in this case). Generally, 'however' is started at the beginning of the sentence with semicolon followed by comma. Nevertheless, it can be used instead of 'but' (conjunction-read the meaning of independent clause I mentioned above) , but the grammar rules states that it should be preceded by a semicolon and followed by a comma. Also, whatever appears after the comma must be a complete sentence. The grammatical reason is that 'however' is an adverb conjunction. An adverb typically modifies other words (verbs, adjectives, and other adverbs). In layman terms, 'however' modifies the main verb of the sentence, i.e, are ''scheduled''.
Do notice that 'number of wolves' is correct because we can actually count wolves (countable nouns). Except this construction, everything else is incorrect.

3. You didn't answer me this question.
The explanation in the O.G says that in option D, the semicolon creates confusion since it is not followed by an independent clause. I don’t see why option D is not an independent clause?
D. area; the number of which will, however, ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.- How can this not stand on its own?
Answer- Yes, the sentence seems to be independent because of the use of semicolon but if you look at the meaning, this option(similar to option A) must be cut off right away. This option is not an independent clause. How can ''the number of which will.......'' stand by itself? So, incorrect use of semicolon. Secondly, ‘which’ refers to ‘area’ in this option. How can the number of area be dictated by the number of prey? The antecedent for both option A and D is confusing. Another reason that I mentioned in my earlier post is that ''the number of population'' is wrong since you can't count population.



Hope it helps!
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
In answer choice B, is the placement of however proper ?
I have selected answer choice C on first attempt.
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Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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Abhishekgorle wrote:
In answer choice B, is the placement of however proper ?
I have selected answer choice C on first attempt.

Hello, Abhishekgorle. Yes, the placement of however in (B) is fine. In fact, the placement of the word is okay in all five answer choices. It is the punctuation surrounding the transition that is problematic. Please see this post above by Expert daagh that addresses your concern. If that does not clarify the issue, I would be happy to offer further analysis.

- Andrew

Originally posted by AndrewN on 05 May 2020, 11:12.
Last edited by AndrewN on 26 Jun 2021, 14:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
elegantm wrote:
Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

A. area, the number of which will however - Use of Comma to join two Independent clauses is incorrect. Moreover use of "The number" to modify POPULATION is incorrect
B. area; the size of the population, however, will - Correct since two Independent clauses are joined by semicolon
C. area, however the number of wolves will - Semi colon should be used before HOWEVER
D. area; the number of which will, however, - Use of "The number" to modify POPULATION is incorrect
E. area, when the size of the population will, however, - Why do we need to use WHEN


GMATNinja

Do you think A has a problem of joining two independent clauses with only a comma?
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
AjiteshArun, COULD YOU PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE SUBJECT -VERB PAIRS IN THIS SENTENCE?
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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sakshiagarwal96 wrote:
COULD YOU PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE SUBJECT -VERB PAIRS IN THIS SENTENCE?


Officials (Subject) + are scheduled (Verb)

The size (Subject) + will be dictated (Verb)
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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sakshiagarwal96 wrote:
AjiteshArun, COULD YOU PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE SUBJECT -VERB PAIRS IN THIS SENTENCE?
Hi sakshiagarwal96,

Here is option A:
... state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

The one on the left is independent, and the one on the right is dependent.

And as vaibhav101 pointed out for option B:
... state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area; the size of the population, however, will ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

Both clauses are independent.
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
Expert Reply
shanks2020 wrote:
GMATNinja

Do you think A has a problem of joining two independent clauses with only a comma?
Hi shanks2020,

No. That is not a problem in option A. The one on the right is not an independent clause.
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
AjiteshArun wrote:
sakshiagarwal96 wrote:
AjiteshArun, COULD YOU PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE SUBJECT -VERB PAIRS IN THIS SENTENCE?
Hi sakshiagarwal96,

Here is option A:
... state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

The one on the left is independent, and the one on the right is dependent.

And as vaibhav101 pointed out for option B:
... state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area; the size of the population, however, will ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

Both clauses are independent.

AjiteshArun, why is the clause on the right dependant?

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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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sakshiagarwal96 wrote:
AjiteshArun, why is the clause on the right dependant?
Hi sakshiagarwal96,

It cannot stand alone as a complete sentence (the number of which will be dictated by X).
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
[quote="AbdurRakib"]Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the job of increasing the wolf population in the federally designated recovery area, the number of which will however ultimately be dictated by the number of prey in the area.

(A) area, the number of which will however
(B) area; the size of the population, however, will
(C) area, however the number of wolves will
(D) area; the number of which will, however,
(E) area, when the size of the population will, however,



Hi,
Can anyone explain me option C. Can we join two independent clauses with however and a comma.
is option c still wrong if there is a comma after however ( area, however, the number fo wolves will). Does however requires a semicolon in-front of it ?.
In few replies, i read there should be a semicolon in front of however.
In general, [However, subject + verb. ] Is this an Independent clause or Dependent Clause?
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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KSN27 wrote:
In general, [However, subject + verb. ] Is this an Independent clause or Dependent Clause?

Hi KSN27, it is an Independent clause. In fact, apart from however, Independent clauses can also start with words such as instead, moreover, likewise, therefore, and otherwise.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses this aspect of Independent clauses. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
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Re: Next month, state wildlife officials are scheduled to take over the [#permalink]
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Found a great article related to above query - and using it you can eliminate choices in less than 30 seconds.

Here is the link -
https://www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/grammar/indep_clause.html
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