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NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)

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What school do I choose?

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NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 18 Jul 2018, 06:57
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Hi All,

Having a tough time with this decision so wanted to get everyone's thoughts; I've flip flopped between the two schools a ton in the past couple weeks. Johnson feels like a better fit, but Stern seems the smarter choice for overall access to opportunities.

Background:
- 28M US Citizen
- Technology consultant looking to switch to management consulting
- Studied engineering from top 10 undergrad
- 3.5 GPA, 760 GMAT

Johnson
Pro
- Clicked well with other admitted students I've talked to, fit feels better
- Great outreach from current students and administration, feels very welcoming
- Full scholarship (not too worried about finances in the long run but allows for more adventures during school)
- Living in the middle of the woods for 2 years sounds like fun (access to outdoors is a plus)

Con
- Weaker consulting recruitment (BCG not coming to campus is concerning)
- Slightly lesser ranked/prestigious
- Seems to be in transition (merger of business/hotel/econ school + sudden resignation of dean)
- Harder to network with companies from Ithaca - unsure on size of recruiting teams that come to campus
- Smaller (but stronger?) alumni base

Stern
Pro
- Better consulting placement, Class of 2019 had impressive numbers
- Access to NYC (really excited about experiential learning opportunities + night classes with adjunct faculty in NYC)
- Existing network of NYC friends
- More formal international study program (Doing Business In)
- Much bigger alumni network (though not sure about its strength)
- Stronger tech placement (potential back up plan if consulting doesn't work out)

Con
- Didn't really form a connection with people I met at Stern Preview - concerned that I won't find a social group
- "Finance bro" stereotype seemed somewhat true from certain people I encountered
- Seems like more competition for recruiting opportunities in terms of caliber/background of classmates
- Community has reputation of not being as tight-knit with distraction of NYC
- Cost of attending school in NYC is scary


Think that's it on my pro/con lists - let me know if there's anything I missed!

Originally posted by DingDingBam on 19 Apr 2018, 10:47.
Last edited by DingDingBam on 18 Jul 2018, 06:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2018, 11:35
I'd pick Stern for consulting, as you've detailed.

I guess it comes down to what you value more - the obvious fit at Cornell or the opportunities at Stern that you might not have at Johnson.

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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2018, 13:24
I strongly encourage you to go to Cornell.

Both schools are ranked identically. Graduating with a little or no debt is a HUGE advantage and you will be able to have much flexible w.r.t to post MBA career. A full-tuition scholarship will look pretty darn dope on your resume.

All the best!

P.S -> Cornell has an extremely strong alumni network.

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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2018, 22:19
While they are not really peer schools in terms of brand (NYU is a much older, well considered in the business community, with better placed alums, and a historically higher ranked school), I believe a full ride is a big advantage in today's economic/political climate.

You may find it a bit harder to recruit for MBB from Cornell, but not significantly. I'd take the money.

Go with Cornell unless
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Apr 2018, 07:50
There have been some rumblings and concerns about the Stern's large PT program population.
A PT program is usually easier to get into and a large PT program is even easier to get into, and that has an effect on Quality of Candidates as well as exclusivity of the alumni group, and also has an effect on the public perception of the Stern degree.

MBB recruiting on campus is important as that is the best and easiest way to get in. It does not mean you will or the fact that BCG has 10 slots to fill out of 500 students helps anyone. You will have stiff competition for those slots among your classmates and chances of getting these positions are usually slim. I am not sure the odds are worth 150K ;-)

At the same time, I would not worry about finding your social circle - you will find it. Schools have very diverse student bodies and there are many circles, layers, groups, etc that you will be able to feel comfortable in. The fact that you did not run into anyone who you connected with at Admit weekend or during a school visit means almost nothing, really. Many people here acknowledged it and gave plenty of reasons why meeting a bunch of MBA candidates who are trying to impress is not how your experience will be 2 weeks into the program. It will calm down a lot and you will connect with some super impressive people how may have appeared as jerks at first but really are just a bit insecure and could be your life-long friends.

One other aspect, is that some of the best jobs are networked. You get the best chances to get in and the best options if you leverage your network, even better than BCG coming to campus. Can you leverage your NYC network from Johnson? Would you be able to tap it much more if you are in the city? (Johnson has recruiting trips that do go to NYC). I would argue that with both Stern and Johnson you will be tapping that network for internship and job search to gain an edge.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2018, 06:33
Hi bb - does the PT program affect recruitment for full timers?

I believe the PT cohort are not allowed to participate in on campus recruitment (i.e. where the interviews are held at NYU's building). I believe there are several other premium jobs for which the PT cohort cannot apply.

The reason I say I "believe" is that I'm hearing this from the full time cohort - so they maybe painting a rosier than real picture



bb wrote:
There have been some rumblings and concerns about the Stern's large PT program population.
A PT program is usually easier to get into and a large PT program is even easier to get into, and that has an effect on Quality of Candidates as well as exclusivity of the alumni group, and also has an effect on the public perception of the Stern degree.

MBB recruiting on campus is important as that is the best and easiest way to get in. It does not mean you will or the fact that BCG has 10 slots to fill out of 500 students helps anyone. You will have stiff competition for those slots among your classmates and chances of getting these positions are usually slim. I am not sure the odds are worth 150K ;-)

At the same time, I would not worry about finding your social circle - you will find it. Schools have very diverse student bodies and there are many circles, layers, groups, etc that you will be able to feel comfortable in. The fact that you did not run into anyone who you connected with at Admit weekend or during a school visit means almost nothing, really. Many people here acknowledged it and gave plenty of reasons why meeting a bunch of MBA candidates who are trying to impress is not how your experience will be 2 weeks into the program. It will calm down a lot and you will connect with some super impressive people how may have appeared as jerks at first but really are just a bit insecure and could be your life-long friends.

One other aspect, is that some of the best jobs are networked. You get the best chances to get in and the best options if you leverage your network, even better than BCG coming to campus. Can you leverage your NYC network from Johnson? Would you be able to tap it much more if you are in the city? (Johnson has recruiting trips that do go to NYC). I would argue that with both Stern and Johnson you will be tapping that network for internship and job search to gain an edge.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2018, 07:54
bb10 wrote:
Hi bb - does the PT program affect recruitment for full timers?

I believe the PT cohort are not allowed to participate in on campus recruitment (i.e. where the interviews are held at NYU's building). I believe there are several other premium jobs for which the PT cohort cannot apply.

The reason I say I "believe" is that I'm hearing this from the full time cohort - so they maybe painting a rosier than real picture



bb wrote:
There have been some rumblings and concerns about the Stern's large PT program population.
A PT program is usually easier to get into and a large PT program is even easier to get into, and that has an effect on Quality of Candidates as well as exclusivity of the alumni group, and also has an effect on the public perception of the Stern degree.

MBB recruiting on campus is important as that is the best and easiest way to get in. It does not mean you will or the fact that BCG has 10 slots to fill out of 500 students helps anyone. You will have stiff competition for those slots among your classmates and chances of getting these positions are usually slim. I am not sure the odds are worth 150K ;-)

At the same time, I would not worry about finding your social circle - you will find it. Schools have very diverse student bodies and there are many circles, layers, groups, etc that you will be able to feel comfortable in. The fact that you did not run into anyone who you connected with at Admit weekend or during a school visit means almost nothing, really. Many people here acknowledged it and gave plenty of reasons why meeting a bunch of MBA candidates who are trying to impress is not how your experience will be 2 weeks into the program. It will calm down a lot and you will connect with some super impressive people how may have appeared as jerks at first but really are just a bit insecure and could be your life-long friends.

One other aspect, is that some of the best jobs are networked. You get the best chances to get in and the best options if you leverage your network, even better than BCG coming to campus. Can you leverage your NYC network from Johnson? Would you be able to tap it much more if you are in the city? (Johnson has recruiting trips that do go to NYC). I would argue that with both Stern and Johnson you will be tapping that network for internship and job search to gain an edge.



I don't think that can ever happen. Imagine being a PT student. You go to the career centre and ask them to allow you to participate in the ON-Campus recruitment. I find it very hard to believe that the career centre will/can say no!
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2018, 09:09
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stonecold

I can confirm that this is the case. PT MBA students have a seperate recruitment route for certain companies - such as MBB and IB - which have seperate recruitment routes for FTMBA.

There may be other routes for PT students - they have a very different timeline than the FT students. All the networking events are seperate also. I think this is such that they are not competing for the same spots.

They only take classes together.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2018, 10:08
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bb10 wrote:
Hi bb - does the PT program affect recruitment for full timers?

I believe the PT cohort are not allowed to participate in on campus recruitment (i.e. where the interviews are held at NYU's building). I believe there are several other premium jobs for which the PT cohort cannot apply.

The reason I say I "believe" is that I'm hearing this from the full time cohort - so they maybe painting a rosier than real picture


Sure. Good question - you are correct that PT students are usually not invited to participate in the FT recruiting events.
The reference I made was that if a PT program is large and easy to get into, then the reputation of the Stern brand suffers. It happens in 2 ways:
1. Employers see their non-star employees get into Stern PT program and then associate Stern with that employee's level
2. The word of mount spreads as some of the PT folks take jobs and not perform at the expected level

This is the effect of a large PT program with lax admit standards (I do not know for a fact that the Stern PT program has lax admit standards but if it is large then there is a chance, it may).
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2018, 10:21
bb10 wrote:
stonecold

I can confirm that this is the case. PT MBA students have a seperate recruitment route for certain companies - such as MBB and IB - which have seperate recruitment routes for FTMBA.

There may be other routes for PT students - they have a very different timeline than the FT students. All the networking events are seperate also. I think this is such that they are not competing for the same spots.

They only take classes together.



Thanks for confirming. Good to know :cool: :thumbup:
I still wonder whether some of them actually do end up getting invites to the recruiting events. Although most people in the PT MBA are just looking to move up in their current company/position/field. Given that the average age is well over 30, most of them have already have a strong networking game to find employment.

Cheers,
Stone
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2018, 06:51
Interesting.

Just looking at the part time programs - NYU Stern is ranked number 4. Acceptance rates are similar for Stern and Kellogg. Size of program is similar to Booth.

I think cities like SFO, NYC and Chicago attract large classes because of their large populations and big economies.

See below:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sc ... e-rankings


bb wrote:
bb10 wrote:
Hi bb - does the PT program affect recruitment for full timers?

I believe the PT cohort are not allowed to participate in on campus recruitment (i.e. where the interviews are held at NYU's building). I believe there are several other premium jobs for which the PT cohort cannot apply.

The reason I say I "believe" is that I'm hearing this from the full time cohort - so they maybe painting a rosier than real picture


Sure. Good question - you are correct that PT students are usually not invited to participate in the FT recruiting events.
The reference I made was that if a PT program is large and easy to get into, then the reputation of the Stern brand suffers. It happens in 2 ways:
1. Employers see their non-star employees get into Stern PT program and then associate Stern with that employee's level
2. The word of mount spreads as some of the PT folks take jobs and not perform at the expected level

This is the effect of a large PT program with lax admit standards (I do not know for a fact that the Stern PT program has lax admit standards but if it is large then there is a chance, it may).
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2018, 07:13
Thanks for the advice everyone!

Does anybody have data on Stern’s employment outcomes? I have the raw numbers for Johnson but haven’t been able to find Stern’s.

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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2018, 23:31
DingDingBam wrote:
Thanks for the advice everyone!

Does anybody have data on Stern’s employment outcomes? I have the raw numbers for Johnson but haven’t been able to find Stern’s.

Posted from my mobile device



Hey buddy. Can you share some info you get from Johnson? How does it look for Asian male targeting management consulting? I received an offer from Johnson as well. Thank you.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2018, 05:57
Found data on employment outcomes, and there's a surprisingly large difference in placements at MBB as a percentage of all consulting placements (15% for Johnson vs 30% for Stern).

Hard to pass up $160k but also hard to pass up a 2x difference in MBB chances.
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2018, 15:43
DingDingBam wrote:
Found data on employment outcomes, and there's a surprisingly large difference in placements at MBB as a percentage of all consulting placements (15% for Johnson vs 30% for Stern).

Hard to pass up $160k but also hard to pass up a 2x difference in MBB chances.


Just curious, have you deposited at both places and still making your final decision?
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Re: NYU Stern vs Cornell Johnson ($$$$)   [#permalink] 25 Apr 2018, 15:43
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