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Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that

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Updated on: 19 Aug 2018, 20:55
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Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A) three times as many as 1852

B) three times as much as 1852

C) triple what it was in 1852

D) triple the figure for 1852

E) thrice the number that was recorded in 1852

Originally posted by ratinarace on 28 Mar 2013, 12:10.
Last edited by generis on 19 Aug 2018, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
Formatted the question
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10 Aug 2014, 03:08
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Temurkhon wrote:
As I know when we use direc numbers like here "1200 landowners" it is better to use multiplying form like "thrice or three times" than "three times as.... as" form. So, I selected E. But dictionary says that "triple" is also possible

Hey Temurkhon,

You bring out a very good point: When to use twice/thrice/three times, when to use double/triple?

As per their discussion:

Why E is wrong : "Thrice is an adverb and can not modify a noun. "

D is correct because double/triple are adjectives, so can modify noun.

For further clarity :

"Twice": "Twice" CANNOT function as an object of the preposition such as "by".
Example:
"... increased by more than twice .." -- WRONG!

On a similar note, "DOUBLE" is an adjective and can not modify verb, but since "Twice" is an adverb it can modify Verb.
Example:-
The same amount of acreage produces double the apple.... -- WRONG
The same amount of acreage produces twice as many apples..... -CORRECT

"twice as many as":

"..., twice as many as ..." is an APPOSITIVE modifier. Appositives must modify some noun that comes immediately before the comma.

However, I am not satisfied with this explanation. I hope that some experts will give their thoughts about this usage!

Lucy
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28 Mar 2013, 17:38
https://grockit.com/blog/gmat/2011/12/23/gmat-8-rules-of-diction-for-non-native-speakers/
Kaplan purchased Grockit in July 2013. In 2016, Grockit announced that it was shutting down, here.
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31 Mar 2013, 22:58
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A three times as many as 1852 --- comparing population with 1852 --wrong

B three times as much as 1852 --- same as in A--- wrong

C triple what it was in 1852 ----"It" is creating ambiguity --- wrong

D triple the figure for 1852 --- concise and correct

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852 -- correct but wordy
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Updated on: 31 Mar 2013, 23:47
Answer should be D as in option A,B we are doing wrong comparison.E is wordy and in Option C it's antecedent is ambiguous
aquarius24 wrote:
A three times as many as 1852 --- comparing population with 1852 --wrong

B three times as much as 1852 --- same as in A--- wrong

C triple what it was in 1852 ----"It" is creating ambiguity --- wrong

D triple the figure for 1852 --- concise and correct

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852 -- correct but wordy

Originally posted by mohit878 on 31 Mar 2013, 23:36.
Last edited by mohit878 on 31 Mar 2013, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Updated on: 10 Aug 2014, 02:41
carcass wrote:
http://grockit.com/blog/gmat/2011/12/23/gmat-8-rules-of-diction-for-non-native-speakers/

Hi Carcass,

What does this sentence compare? 1,200 landowners in 1876 and # of landowners in 1852 or landowner population in 1876 and landowner population in 1852? I think # of landowners is landowner population, right?

Many thanks to you!
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Originally posted by LucyDang on 09 Aug 2014, 19:14.
Last edited by LucyDang on 10 Aug 2014, 02:41, edited 1 time in total.
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09 Aug 2014, 23:04
As I know when we use direc numbers like here "1200 landowners" it is better to use multiplying form like "thrice or three times" than "three times as.... as" form. So, I selected E. But dictionary says that "triple" is also possible
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10 Aug 2014, 05:27
1
LucyDang wrote:
Temurkhon wrote:
As I know when we use direc numbers like here "1200 landowners" it is better to use multiplying form like "thrice or three times" than "three times as.... as" form. So, I selected E. But dictionary says that "triple" is also possible

Hey Temurkhon,

You bring out a very good point: When to use twice/thrice/three times, when to use double/triple?

As per their discussion:

Why E is wrong : "Thrice is an adverb and can not modify a noun. "

D is correct because double/triple are adjectives, so can modify noun.

For further clarity :

"Twice": "Twice" CANNOT function as an object of the preposition such as "by".
Example:
"... increased by more than twice .." -- WRONG!

On a similar note, "DOUBLE" is an adjective and can not modify verb, but since "Twice" is an adverb it can modify Verb.
Example:-
The same amount of acreage produces double the apple.... -- WRONG
The same amount of acreage produces twice as many apples..... -CORRECT

"twice as many as":

"..., twice as many as ..." is an APPOSITIVE modifier. Appositives must modify some noun that comes immediately before the comma.

However, I am not satisfied with this explanation. I hope that some experts will give their thoughts about this usage!

Lucy

thanks, Lucy

for me becomes clear that A and B impossible because they do not have nouns after "three times as...as". C is wrong because uses adjective without noun. D is correct using adjective with noun. E is wrong using adverb with noun
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31 Oct 2014, 02:25
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Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

Intended meaning -> comparing 1200 landowners in 1876 to landowners in 1852

A three times as many as 1852 -> in is missing

B three times as much as 1852 -> much cannot be used to compare countable nouns

C triple what it was in 1852 -> it -> what does it refer to?

D triple the figure for 1852 -> for can be replaced with in and is correct.

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852 -> this option can be written as "thrice the number in 1852". rest of the sentence is not required.
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Re: Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that  [#permalink]

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12 Jan 2016, 16:13
What if "nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population," was removed? Would the sentence below be correct?

Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, three times as many as 1852.

I am trying to understand if the ",three times" has to come directly after what it references to or if it comes down to some other rule.
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15 Jan 2016, 07:14
ratinarace wrote:
Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A three times as many as 1852

B three times as much as 1852

C triple what it was in 1852

D triple the figure for 1852

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852

in E, the number that was recored in 1852 make no sense.
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06 Apr 2017, 12:17
ratinarace wrote:
Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A three times as many as 1852
comparing figures with year. no

B three times as much as 1852
landowners is countable - should be many - out

C triple what it was in 1852
it refers to landowners - incorrect.

D triple the figure for 1852
looks good to me.

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852
thrice - is it a real word?i don't think it's good on GMAT, and D looks more concise...
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08 Jul 2018, 12:57
Hi daagh Sir,
I got a doubt in below question

Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A three times as many as 1852

B three times as much as 1852

C triple what it was in 1852

D triple the figure for 1852 (oa)

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852

Doesn't figure in option D is ambiguous. It can represent that 12% or 1200.
If it is not.
What is it specifying : 12% or 1200 ?
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08 Jul 2018, 16:47
mikemcgarry, GMATNinjaTwo, GMATNinja,

Could you explain above SC question. How "for" is correct in option D?

How "triple the figure.." is modifying 1200 landowners in Westbridge County?

Thanks,
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08 Jul 2018, 16:51
Nightmare007 wrote:
Hi daagh Sir,
I got a doubt in below question

Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A three times as many as 1852

B three times as much as 1852

C triple what it was in 1852

D triple the figure for 1852 (oa)

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852

Doesn't figure in option D is ambiguous. It can represent that 12% or 1200.
If it is not.
What is it specifying : 12% or 1200 ?

Remove non-essential modifier...

In 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, triple the figure for 1852.......As per some above post it is same as "in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, triple the figure in 1852"....

though i am not sure about my approach.
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18 Aug 2018, 22:14
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ammuseeru

Usually Comparison questions are based on pure meaning. you have to find what is compared with what. On these lines lets look into it.

1 - 1,200 landowners - a number will be compared
2 - We will need a number for 2nd part.

A three times as many as 1852 ---- If this were "three times as many as that of 1852", this would have been correct. Comparing with 1852 is wrong.

B three times as much as 1852 ---- as much as is wrong.

C triple what it was in 1852 ---- it can refer to percentage or number.

D triple the figure for 1852 ---- First for your question on usage of for. use of for is correct here. This phrase will give the number of landowners clearly. So comparison of 1200 landowners with the figure from 1852 is correct here. keep this option.

E thrice the number that was recorded in 1852 ---- first thing i thought of is wordy. then again validity of choice is usage of thrice. it is an adverb. it should modify verb not noun. Correct usage is - I called you thrice last night.

Hope this helps.
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19 Aug 2018, 22:22
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If 'figure' were to represent 12%, then the diction would have been 'triple the percentage' for 1852. Since the choice says that it is the number, it refers to only 1200, the only absolute number available in the question
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20 Aug 2018, 01:35
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ratinarace wrote:
Records from the latter half of the 19th century show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, three times as many as 1852.

A) three times as many as 1852
Compares 1,200 to the year 1852

B) three times as much as 1852
Compares 1,200 to the year 1852
"Much" is not used with countable nouns. Landowners are countable

C) triple what it was in 1852
"It" could be either 12 percent or 1,200

D) triple the figure for 1852
That works.

E) thrice the number that was recorded in 1852
forces you into the position that 1,200 is being modified
Almost always in official questions, if a modifier has two potential antecedents that are both nouns, the closer noun is the referent.
Noun modifiers typically are placed as close to the noun entity they modify as possible to avoid ambiguity in modification.
If a modifier has two potential referents and both are nouns, without a good reason to refer to the noun antecedent farther away, the modifier refers to the closest noun.
That noun is "12 percent (of the landowning population)."
On the other hand, in context, none of these answers help us to decide. The referent is ambiguous at best.
Answer D does not force you to choose.
Not as succinct as D (which is correct)..
If we think we have two correct answers and one is more succinct than the other, use the shorter answer.
Concision is important.
"thrice" is obsolete in U.S. English (not definitive, but a consideration)
GMAT bulletin instructions include references to American and U.S. English.
All spelling conforms U.S. English.
I am NOT saying that the GMAT is entirely based on U.S. English.
I have never seen "thrice" used in an official question.
That absence may reflect the fact that in the United States, people do not say "thrice."
In the U.S., people use "twice," but "thrice" is obsolete
This question is really old and not official.
Official questions do test the word "twice."
If you have an official example that contains "thrice, please post it on this topic.
• Finally, "thrice" is an adverb; its seeming modification of "number" is problematic

Does "figure: refer to 1,200 or 12 percent?

Nightmare007 and Harshgmat ,
Quote:
Doesn't figure in option D is ambiguous. It can represent that 12% or 1200.
If it is not.
What is it specifying : 12% or 1200 ?

The issue raised by this question is in flux. This question is nearly identical to an OG question that is at least 13 years old; that question showed up as early as 2005.

This question has the same problem as that OG question: does "figure" refer to 12 percent or 1,200?

I have seen three experts who believe that "figure" refers to "1,200," and two experts who believe that the referent is "12 percent."

I suspect that this issue is not going to be resolved.

In a strict sense, "triple the figure for 1852" modifies the nearest possible and logically sensible noun, which is 12 percent.

Analyzing a similar non-official question, Ron Purewal takes the position that "figure modifies the 12 percent,"

an approach that he repeats in his analysis of a third question, here.

On that last thread cited you will find another Manhattan expert whom I respect.

She takes the position that "figure" refers to "1,200."
Kevin Rocci also believes that "figure" refers to 1,200.

Language changes. Grammarians squabble. Rule emphases evolve. And we must adapt.
This and the official sentence are not going to win any awards for clear prose. That said, there is no need to worry much about either of them.

On the topic of pronoun antecedent ambiguity (Option C), the consensus among people who have been watching patterns in GMAT SC for more than a decade accords with what I have found from informal but fairly exhaustive data analysis:

· If NO noun exists as a possible antecedent, the option is wrong. We have a case of The Missing Antecedent, not pronoun ambiguity.

· If more than one noun qualifies, but one makes more logical sense than the other, does the former agree in number, sex, and person- or thinghood? (I just made up that last word.) Yes? Option is fine. Move on. Does not agree with with pronoun? We have a case of Pronoun Disagreement, not pronoun ambiguity.

· Do two nouns qualify as an antecedent (= the very RARE case of true pronoun ambiguity)?
Then the answer options in OGs 2018 and 2019 at issue contain other and better reasons to eliminate the options. (I and others believe that pronoun ambiguity should be the last reason that a test taker eliminates an option.)

I may have missed a question. If so, please PM me.)

The topic of modifier referent ambiguity seems to be shifting. See R. Purewal in the longer thread above.

Exactly how that shift will play out is unclear -- but I have not seen the issue tested in OGs 2016, 2018, and 2019. (Again, if I am mistaken, please PM me.)

Meaning - my take

I think that "figure" refers to "1,200," and that the sentence means
...there were 1,200 landowners in W. County in 1876, triple the figure for 1852.

Whether "triple the figure for 1852" refers irritatingly to 12% or sensibly to 1,200, the answer is D.

I agree with aragonn 's answer and reasoning.

Remove the material set off by commas. Then remove the other possible comparison.

Records . . . show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were 1,200 landowners, triple the figure for 1852.

Records . . . show that in 1876 in Westbridge County there were, nearly 12 percent of the state landowner population, triple the figure for 1852.

Ouch.
Sometimes essential modifiers can be set off with commas, so maybe that 12 percent information is essential.
In any event, answer D covers both possibilities.

"Twice the figure FOR" is okay

ammuseeru , "twice the figure for [year]" is idiomatically correct.
I suspect that the phrase sounds strange to a non-native speaker's ear, but the phrase is very common especially if a statistical figure is being reported "for" that year.

I Googled "twice the figure for" and found, among many other examples:
Quote:
Half had developed [diabetes] by the age of 80 in a study of 4,200 people living in London - approximately twice the figure for Europeans.

That example, here, uses the phrase with (certain) "people [Europeans]"

This example uses the phrase with a specific year.
Quote:
The size and scope of those storms is also noteworthy, with 2017 storms disrupting power to 1.3 million customers – which is nearly twice the figure for 2016 and more than double the 2015 total.

I hope that analysis helps.
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13 Sep 2018, 02:27
THank you very much!
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20 Oct 2018, 07:44
VodkaHelps wrote:
THank you very much!

Your question would be easier to answer if it were more specific.

Posts in the thread discuss option E.
What about option E is unclear? Why?
Why is option E better than option D?
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