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Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 10 Aug 2010, 09:55
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Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected - usually, a modifier phase in the first part of the sentence must be followed by the main clause. This is not the case. It's ackward.
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected - correct structure: subordinate phrase + main clause.
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting - ackward
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected - which refers to New York
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting - there is not a main clause (s+v+o)

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Last edited by metallicafan on 10 Aug 2010, 10:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2011, 02:33
It was between option (A) and (B).

Option (B) looks the best though "or" might bring some confusion

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2011, 05:48
Hey guys ,

I was wondering whether you could approach this type of question by eliminating answers C + D + E based on the fact that they don't start with the adverb " seldom " and therefore not idiomatic. I then eliminated A based on the " but it ran" which is illogical.

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2011, 07:24
what about the difference between 'and' / 'or' here? is that not taken in account.

B looks the most appropriate answer. But what about the use of 'or' instead of the original 'and', if its appropriate?
Can someone explain this.

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2011, 07:52
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agdimple333 wrote:
what about the difference between 'and' / 'or' here? is that not taken in account.

B looks the most appropriate answer. But what about the use of 'or' instead of the original 'and', if its appropriate?
Can someone explain this.


Your argument is perfectly valid. They both convey different meaning.

Usage of OR means: The canal is rarely 12 ft deep OR 40 ft wide. e.g. 90% of the places the canal is less than 12 ft deep and 90% of the places the canal is less than 40 ft wide. Maybe they are never 12ft deep and 40ft wide at the same place.

Usage of AND means: 10% of the time they are BOTH 12 ft deep and 40 ft wide, and 90% of the time these conditions are not satisfied simultaneously.

Despite conveying different meanings, both the usages are considered grammatically correct.

But, we actually don't know what the author really wanted to say because the entire portion was UNDERLINED. Thus, we must consider other indicators to prove the statement wrong.

Considering all grammatical indicators and errors, we eliminated everything but "B".

If we had the following two statements as the options, it would be ambiguous.

Seldom more than 40 feet wide OR 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

OR

Seldom more than 40 feet wide AND 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected.
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2011, 18:29
I picked E, based on and/or. I thought the author wants and not or.

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2011, 02:51
why A is wrong? Is it because the wrong position of "it"? So we can only put "it" after it's logical subject,right? And it's absolutely wrong to put "it" before it's logical subject? Please help..

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2011, 14:44
826goodluck wrote:
why A is wrong? Is it because the wrong position of "it"? So we can only put "it" after it's logical subject,right? And it's absolutely wrong to put "it" before it's logical subject? Please help..


following reasons -

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

1) 'it' is ambiguous
2) use of past tense 'ran' in 'A' mean that Eric canal doesnt exist any more.

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2011, 04:53
B looks better then any other choices

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2011, 07:04
agdimple333 wrote:
826goodluck wrote:
why A is wrong? Is it because the wrong position of "it"? So we can only put "it" after it's logical subject,right? And it's absolutely wrong to put "it" before it's logical subject? Please help..


following reasons -

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

1) 'it' is ambiguous
2) use of past tense 'ran' in 'A' mean that Eric canal doesnt exist any more.


More than this, comma followed by a but construction expects two independent clauses, and an independent clause should have a subject and a verb. In this sentence the modifier beginning with "seldom..." does not have a verb.
Furthermore, The modifier starting with "seldom.." can not modify "but", so this is really a dangling modifier.
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2011, 09:20
rphardu wrote:
johnycute wrote:
Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
1. No clear refferent for "it" 2. "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" can not modify but 3. Ran is not the correct tense as canal exist now also.
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
Looks okay
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
1. No clear referrent for "it" 2. "ran is not correct tense" 3. There is no verb for connecting. "Erice canal, connecting..."
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
1.Ran is not correct tense. 2. Which is referring here to New york, New york does not connect anything.
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting
"After removing all modifier sentence will look like "The Erie Canal, connecting...." which is not complete sentence.".


To all pointing out "ran" for the tense, how do you know river exists now?
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Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran [#permalink]

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Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

I chose E, because I thought "running.....connecting" parallel to the "providing...." :(

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Re: Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 3 [#permalink]

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New post 19 Oct 2012, 00:42
tingting85114 wrote:
Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

I chose E, because I thought "running.....connecting" parallel to the "providing...." :(


E is incorrect becuase its a fragment. remove modifier and E is left with:
The Erie Canal connecting X to Y.

Correct ans is B.
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Re: Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 3 [#permalink]

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New post 19 Oct 2012, 00:47
Vips0000 wrote:
tingting85114 wrote:
Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

I chose E, because I thought "running.....connecting" parallel to the "providing...." :(


E is incorrect becuase its a fragment. remove modifier and E is left with:
The Erie Canal connecting X to Y.

Correct ans is B.



Hi Vips,

I agree with the explanation :)

But as per the original choice "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" but as per the option B it changes this phrase to "Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep"

I think this is changing the intended meaning of the sentence.

Pls correct me if i'm missing some pt

Thanks
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Re: Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 3 [#permalink]

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New post 19 Oct 2012, 04:04
jsahni123 wrote:
Vips0000 wrote:
tingting85114 wrote:
Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

I chose E, because I thought "running.....connecting" parallel to the "providing...." :(


E is incorrect becuase its a fragment. remove modifier and E is left with:
The Erie Canal connecting X to Y.

Correct ans is B.



Hi Vips,

I agree with the explanation :)

But as per the original choice "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" but as per the option B it changes this phrase to "Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep"

I think this is changing the intended meaning of the sentence.

Pls correct me if i'm missing some pt

Thanks
Jatin

Hi jatin,

Judging intended meaning can be tricky. For one,we don't know what person,who designed the question, intended. Meaning is important, intention is not. Secondly, intented meaning elimination should be done only when both sentences are grammatically correct.
Hope it answers ur question, :)
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Re: Seldom more that 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 3 [#permalink]

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New post 19 Oct 2012, 04:46
Hi Vips,

I agree with the explanation :)

But as per the original choice "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" but as per the option B it changes this phrase to "Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep"

I think this is changing the intended meaning of the sentence.

Pls correct me if i'm missing some pt

Thanks
Jatin[/quote]
Hi jatin,

Judging intended meaning can be tricky. For one,we don't know what person,who designed the question, intended. Meaning is important, intention is not. Secondly, intented meaning elimination should be done only when both sentences are grammatically correct.
Hope it answers ur question, :)[/quote]


Hi Vips,

I mean as per the original sentence the phrase
"Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" conveys the meaning that any pt if we check the dimensions of the canal it will not be more than 40 ft wide and 12 ft deep.

But as per the option B, the phrase "Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep" seems to convey that if we check the dimensions of the canal it will be either not more than 40 ft wide or 12 ft deep.

Pls correct me if i'm misintrepting here.

Also i more than agree with you here that A is not correct,having error of ||'ism.

Thanks
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 23 Nov 2012, 21:16
OG explanation speaks about logical connector and / or/ but.

Please throw some light on the correct usage of logical connectors.
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2013, 06:08
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Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting

D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected

E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2013, 14:52
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NewKid123 wrote:
Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.
A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

Dear NewKid123
I'm happy to help with this one. :-) I like this question. What's the source?

(A) we have a modifier "seldom more than ..." in parallel with an independent clause "it ran ....", a failure of parallelism. Then, we get a run-on sentence --- two independent clauses separated only by a comma. See:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/916-run-on-sentences
This choice is incorrect.

(B) [modifier] "but" [modifier], [subject][verb] .... all correct. This is promising.

(C) "It was ..." (independent clause), "and ran" (verb in parallel, so far, so good), "but the Erie canal" [modifier][modifier]
This is a failure of parallelism --- after that comma and "but", we need either a full verb or a complete independent clause, and we get neither. For more on parallelism, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/
This is incorrect.

(D) Misplaced modifier!! A classic mistake!! "... the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo ..." The canal did that connecting, not the wilderness of upstate NY. The canal is the intended modifier, but the modifier is nowhere near the canal. This is a violation of the Modifier Touch Rule --- see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/modifiers- ... orrection/

(E) The missing verb mistake!! Another oldie but goodie!! This choice has modifier after modifier --- it has a perfectly good subject, "The Erie Canal" at the beginning, but this subject has absolutely no verb. There is no full verb anywhere in the sentence, only participial modifiers. See
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/914-the ... rb-mistake

Thus, the only completely correct choice, and hence the only possible answer, is (B).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2013, 23:34
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mikemcgarry wrote:
NewKid123 wrote:
Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.
A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

Dear NewKid123
I'm happy to help with this one. :-) I like this question. What's the source?

(A) we have a modifier "seldom more than ..." in parallel with an independent clause "it ran ....", a failure of parallelism. Then, we get a run-on sentence --- two independent clauses separated only by a comma. See:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/916-run-on-sentences
This choice is incorrect.

(B) [modifier] "but" [modifier], [subject][verb] .... all correct. This is promising.

(C) "It was ..." (independent clause), "and ran" (verb in parallel, so far, so good), "but the Erie canal" [modifier][modifier]
This is a failure of parallelism --- after that comma and "but", we need either a full verb or a complete independent clause, and we get neither. For more on parallelism, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/
This is incorrect.

(D) Misplaced modifier!! A classic mistake!! "... the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo ..." The canal did that connecting, not the wilderness of upstate NY. The canal is the intended modifier, but the modifier is nowhere near the canal. This is a violation of the Modifier Touch Rule --- see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/modifiers- ... orrection/

(E) The missing verb mistake!! Another oldie but goodie!! This choice has modifier after modifier --- it has a perfectly good subject, "The Erie Canal" at the beginning, but this subject has absolutely no verb. There is no full verb anywhere in the sentence, only participial modifiers. See
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/914-the ... rb-mistake

Thus, the only completely correct choice, and hence the only possible answer, is (B).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)

Hi, I chose B as my answer but later realised that B changes the meaning. In the original sentence the canal is 40ft wide and 12ft deep, but in B the canal is 40ft wide or 12ft wide? Isnt this supposed to be a deal breaker since the meaning changed?

Kudos [?]: 93 [1], given: 118

Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a   [#permalink] 09 Oct 2013, 23:34

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