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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
anilkumar1510 wrote:
IMO choice E does not have an independent clause. Not able to understand the construction.

That .... as well as .....

This is a dependent clause. Am i missing something here ?

Hi anilkumar1510, actually this is a case where a clause is acting as the subject of the sentence. The subject (clause) is:

That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church

The one important thing to note vis-a-vis this structure is that in such cases, the subject is always considered singular (and hence, the main verb of this sentence is singular is).

The structure of this sentence is:

<Subject clause> is indicated by X as well as by Y.

Where:

X: its eastward orientation and overall plan

Y: the artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments, found at the site

Another similar official example:

That some fraternal twins resemble each other greatly while others look quite dissimilar highlights an interesting and often overlooked feature of fraternal-twin pairs, namely that they vary considerably on a spectrum of genetic relatedness.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Noun Clause, its application and examples. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section


Hi EducationAisle,
In OA E, how can the article- 'the' and such as go together.
Example- I love places, such as Denmark and Nepal.
I love the places, such as Denmark and Nepal.--> This is wrong. We cant use the with such as

In OA E- That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments.My questions i how come the artifacts go in line with such as?
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
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sunny91 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle,
In OA E, how can the article- 'the' and such as go together.
Example- I love places, such as Denmark and Nepal.
I love the places, such as Denmark and Nepal.--> This is wrong. We cant use the with such as

In OA E- That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments.My questions i how come the artifacts go in line with such as?

Hi sunny91, the sentence under consideration isn't the same as:

I love the places, such as Denmark and Nepal.

It is similar to:

I love the mountainous places, such as Denmark and Nepal, that offer a serene environment.

Basically the difference here is the presence of a comma before such as and a subsequent modifier, making the entire such as... phrase non-essential. So, the core of the sentence would be:

I love the mountainous places that offer a serene environment.

Am sure you would be fine with the above sentence using a the.

Having said that, GMAT doesn't really test you on articles, so an article would not be something I would focus on, to eliminate/choose an option.
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
sunny91 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle,
In OA E, how can the article- 'the' and such as go together.
Example- I love places, such as Denmark and Nepal.
I love the places, such as Denmark and Nepal.--> This is wrong. We cant use the with such as

In OA E- That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments.My questions i how come the artifacts go in line with such as?

Hi sunny91, the sentence under consideration isn't the same as:

I love the places, such as Denmark and Nepal.

It is similar to:

I love the mountainous places, such as Denmark and Nepal, that offer a serene environment.

Basically the difference here is the presence of a comma before such as and a subsequent modifier, making the entire such as... phrase non-essential. So, the core of the sentence would be:

I love the mountainous places that offer a serene environment.

Am sure you would be fine with the above sentence using a the.

Having said that, GMAT doesn't really test you on articles, so an article would not be something I would focus on, to eliminate/choose an option.


Hi EducationAisle,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I guess the following sentence is correct where there is no comma and 'the' article.
I love mountainous places such as Denmark and Nepal-->Right

I guess the following sentence is incorrect without the use of comma and with 'the' article.
I love the mountainous places such as Denmark and Nepal-->Wrong

Please clarify if my understanding is correct
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
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sunny91 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I guess the following sentence is correct where there is no comma and 'the' article.
I love mountainous places such as Denmark and Nepal-->Right

I guess the following sentence is incorrect without the use of comma and with 'the' article.
I love the mountainous places such as Denmark and Nepal-->Wrong

Please clarify if my understanding is correct

That's right.

But would like to reiterate what I had mentioned in my last post: GMAT doesn't really test you on articles, so an article would not be something I would focus on, to eliminate/choose an option :-) .
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
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Correct Aman.

The one thing to remember about a clause acting as a subject is that such subjects are always considered singular.
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
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schak2rhyme wrote:
GMAT® Official Guide 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 136
Page: 699

A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments, found at the site.

(A) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as

(B) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, once probably being a church, was indicated by its eastward orientation, overall plan, and

(C) Indicating that a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church were its eastward orientation and overall plan, but also the

(D) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicates its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as the

(E) That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the

Is the option A wrong because there are two different prepositions i.e in and by separated by a conjunction ?
Is it wrong to have two different prepositions generally speaking ?

or

because the preposition by cannot be shared by a noun which appears after the word as well as ?
I assumed that the this construction i.e by its overall plan, as well as (by) artifacts. is alright and acceptable in GMAT.


GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

Originally posted by Abhishekrao12 on 08 Apr 2020, 09:54.
Last edited by GMATNinjaTwo on 09 Apr 2020, 10:37, edited 1 time in total.
fixed quotation formatting
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Abhishekrao12 wrote:
schak2rhyme wrote:
GMAT® Official Guide 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 136
Page: 699

A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments, found at the site.

(A) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as

(B) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, once probably being a church, was indicated by its eastward orientation, overall plan, and

(C) Indicating that a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church were its eastward orientation and overall plan, but also the

(D) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicates its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as the

(E) That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the


Is the option A wrong because there are two different prepositions i.e in and by separated by a conjunction ?
Is it wrong to have two different prepositions generally speaking ?

or

because the preposition by cannot be shared by a noun which appears after the word as well as ?
I assumed that the this construction i.e by its overall plan, as well as (by) artifacts. is alright and acceptable in GMAT.


GMATNinja VeritasKarishma


No problem with multiple prepositions -
e.g. I ran up the slope, through the tunnel and onto the platform.

In our question, there are three things mentioned:
- its eastward orientation
- overall plan
- the artefacts

Since 'the artefacts' is connecting with 'as well as', it doesn't have the same importance as the other two. It is an aside, just additional. So the three are not equally important members of a list.

The first two members can share the preposition since they are equal members of a list.
Correct - by A and B, as well as by C
Incorrect - by A and by B, as well as C
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
AndrewN VeritasKarishma

For what reasons, is option D incorrect ?

Kindly help
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warrior1991 wrote:
AndrewN VeritasKarishma

For what reasons, is option D incorrect ?

Kindly help

Hello, warrior1991. Option (D) reminds me of something I often tell my students, namely not to settle for an answer and hope for the best when something definitely seems off. To be clear, I like the straightforward presentation of (D) from the get go, but that all comes to a grinding halt at as indicates. The sentence, with (D) inserted:

Quote:
A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicates its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as the artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments, found at the site.


The verb indicates is improperly used. You could say, as its eastward orientation and overall plan indicate. (Notice the plural agreement.) You could also say, as indicated by... But the sentence as written is untenable. A check against the second half of the underlined portion fails as well: as indicates the artifacts... You would say, once again, that the artifacts indicate something in this sort of active voice, or you could slip into a passive construct and say as indicated by the same.

I hope that helps clarify the matter. Thank you for thinking to ask me about the question. It is a tougher one, for sure.

- Andrew
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
Why isn't E considered a sentence fragment? I have seen other examples that use That at the beginning of the sentence be erroneous. Are there any guides here for when using that at the start is acceptable vs unacceptable?

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CEdward wrote:
Why isn't E considered a sentence fragment? I have seen other examples that use That at the beginning of the sentence be erroneous. Are there any guides here for when using that at the start is acceptable vs unacceptable?

Hi CEdward, this is a case where a Noun clause ("That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church") is the subject of the sentence.

One important concept to be remembered is that whenever a noun clause is the subject of a sentence, the subject is always considered singular; hence, the main verb of the sentence (is) is singular.

Few other official examples of this type (I have highlighted the noun clause in each of the following sentences):

That some fraternal twins resemble each other greatly while others look quite dissimilar highlights an interesting and often overlooked feature of fraternal-twin pairs, namely that they vary considerably on a spectrum of genetic relatedness.

What scientists know about dinosaur brains comes from studies of the cranium, the bony house of the brain located in the back of the skull.

The period when the great painted caves at Lascaux and Altamira were occupied by Upper Paleolithic people has been established by carbon-14 dating, but what is much more difficult to determine is the reason for their decoration, the use to which primitive people put the caves, and the meaning of the magnificently depicted animals.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses "Noun clauses as subjects". Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
Attachments

Noun Clause.pdf [11.66 KiB]
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
schak2rhyme wrote:
GMAT® Official Guide 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 136
Page: 699

A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as artifacts, such as glass-oil lamp fragments, found at the site.

(A) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicated in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as

(B) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, once probably being a church, was indicated by its eastward orientation, overall plan, and

(C) Indicating that a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church were its eastward orientation and overall plan, but also the

(D) A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as indicates its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as the

(E) That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is indicated by its eastward orientation and overall plan, as well as by the

Similar Question : LINK

https://archive.archaeology.org/9811/newsbriefs/aqaba.html

The remains of the oldest known structure designed and built as a church have been found at the Jordanian Red Sea port of Aqaba. Pottery, such as Tunisian red-slipped tableware, from the building's foundations dates the church to the late third or beginning of the fourth century, according to its excavator, North Carolina State University archaeologist S. Thomas Parker. That the building was a church is indicated by its eastward orientation, overall plan (a basilica with a central nave flanked by side aisles), and artifacts, such as glass oil lamp fragments.

Aqaba, Jordan

(A) Parallelism (X, as well as Y)

(B) Meaning

(C) Parallelism (X, but also Y)

(D) Meaning

(E) CORRECT


First glance

Most of the sentence is underlined and the beginning changes substantially across different choices, so look for global issues with Sentence Structure, Meaning, Modifiers, and Parallelism.

Issues

(1) Parallelism: X, as well as Y; X, but also Y

The original sentence contains nested parallelism:

(A) in its eastward orientation and by its overall plan, as well as artifacts

X (made up of A and B), as well as Y

Overall, the sentence contains X and Y elements that need to be made parallel; the X element itself consists of two sub-elements, A and B (and those two elements need to be parallel to each other).

This is an unusual structure but can be used correctly in a sentence, as long as the necessary elements are parallel.

In this case, the A and B elements are both prepositional phrases (in its eastward orientation; by its overall plan), so that portion is fine, but the Y element does not match the X element because artifacts found at the site is not a prepositional phrase. Eliminate choice (A) for faulty parallelism.

Scan the other answers for parallelism. Choices (B), (D), and (E) are fine, but choice (C) uses a faulty structure. It would be acceptable to say not only X, but also Y, but it is not acceptable to drop the not only portion of the construction; this parallelism marker requires some kind of negative language at the beginning in order to match the but also portion. (Note: you could also use alternative language, such as not just.)

(2) Meaning

All of these choices sound fairly awkward but only two have definite meaning problems. The core sentence for choice (B) is as follows: A ruined structure was indicated by its orientation, plan, and artifacts. The structure itself, however, was not indicated by anything. Rather, these clues indicated that the structure was probably a church. Eliminate choice (B) for faulty meaning.

Answer (D) employs a structure that creates a false meaning: A ruined structure was probably a church, as indicates its orientation and plan, as well as the artifacts. First, consider the difference between saying indicates X and indicated by X.

She indicates that she hates pizza.

Her hatred of pizza is indicated by her refusal to eat it.

The active form indicates X requires the subject to perform the action of indicating. This active form is used in choice (D), so what is the subject of indicates? The structure? But the structure doesn’t actively indicate anything. Rather certain pieces of evidence indicate that the structure was probably a church. The sentence mentions the structure first, though, so the sentence must use the passive structure: the fact that the structure was probably a church is indicated by certain pieces of evidence.

The Correct Answer

Correct answer (E) employs proper nested parallelism. The A and B sub-elements are both nouns (orientation and plan) and the overall X and Y elements are both prepositional phrases (by its orientation and plan; by the artifacts).

The overall sentence structure is fine as well, though it might seem very awkward. It may sound a little better to you if you replace the word That at the beginning with The fact that.

This is an extremely difficult question—the test writers purposely made the correct answer sound just as bad as the others so that you couldn’t rely on your ear for this one. If, in future, you hit a problem in which all five answers sound terrible to you, consider guessing and moving on.

AndrewN I got this correct but still thinking about the parallelism of "by", being a preposition. Can it be parallel to other preposition "in"?
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lakshya14 wrote:
AndrewN I got this correct but still thinking about the parallelism of "by", being a preposition. Can it be parallel to other preposition "in"?



Hello lakshya14,

Wish you a Happy 2021. :-)

I know that your query is not addressed to me. However, here is my response to this one.

In a list, phrases with different prepositions can form parallel elements. However, in the context of this official sentence, we need by before the parallel elements because of the usage of the word indicated. This word, in the context of this sentence, MUST be followed by the preposition by to keep the sentence grammatical.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha

Originally posted by egmat on 31 Dec 2020, 08:53.
Last edited by egmat on 31 Dec 2020, 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
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lakshya14 wrote:
AndrewN I got this correct but still thinking about the parallelism of "by", being a preposition. Can it be parallel to other preposition "in"?

Hello, lakshya14. Sorry I got to this later than the e-GMAT representative. But I agree with what was said. You should look to the context of the sentence to determine what may or may not be reasonable. In this case, as indicated in is unidiomatic, so it should not prove to be much of a concern whether in and by can be paired.

Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
what is the function of 'That' in the last option can anyone explain?
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HorseGiggles wrote:
what is the function of 'That' in the last option can anyone explain?

Hello, HorseGiggles. I would not focus as much on the word that in isolation as I would everything that follows until we hit the verb of the main clause. This is fairly rare construction in which the entire that clause serves as the subject of the sentence, so it can be said to be a nominative or noun clause.

That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is

This clause in its entirety helps answer the question, What is indicated by the eastward orientation, etc., of a certain ruined structure? (That it was probably a church.)

You are likely more accustomed to seeing that used as a conjunction when it serves to introduce the object of the main clause, as in the following sentence:

The eastward orientation, etc., of a certain ruined structure indicates that it was probably a church.

Note that the entire clause still serves in the capacity of a noun, only now it is acting as the object instead of the subject.

I hope this information proves useful to you. Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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Re: A ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church, as [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
HorseGiggles wrote:
what is the function of 'That' in the last option can anyone explain?

Hello, HorseGiggles. I would not focus as much on the word that in isolation as I would everything that follows until we hit the verb of the main clause. This is fairly rare construction in which the entire that clause serves as the subject of the sentence, so it can be said to be a nominative or noun clause.

That a ruined structure found at Aqaba, Jordan, was probably a church is

This clause in its entirety helps answer the question, What is indicated by the eastward orientation, etc., of a certain ruined structure? (That it was probably a church.)

You are likely more accustomed to seeing that used as a conjunction when it serves to introduce the object of the main clause, as in the following sentence:

The eastward orientation, etc., of a certain ruined structure indicates that it was probably a church.

Note that the entire clause still serves in the capacity of a noun, only now it is acting as the object instead of the subject.

I hope this information proves useful to you. Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew


thank you so much for the reply. I actually chose another option because of 'that' in the last option, the sentence felt incomplete with 'that' in the beginning but now I get it.
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