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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies

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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers
B) as that of modern long-distance backpackers
C) just as modern long-distance backpackers do
D) as do modern long-distance backpackers
E) as it is for modern long-distance backpackers

Originally posted by Countdown on 29 Jun 2013, 04:13.
Last edited by mikemcgarry on 22 Mar 2016, 14:24, edited 3 times in total.
Edited the question.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2013, 04:26
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Countdown wrote:
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers
as that of modern long-distance backpackers
just as modern long-distance backpackers do
as do modern long-distance backpackers
as it is for modern long-distance backpackers


IMO E
LIKE is used to compare nouns or noun phrases.
AS is used to compare clauses.

here the structure is : BALANCING X was a concern for A, as balancing X is concern for B. (TWO CLAUSES COMPARED thats why AS is used)
CLEARLY its E....here IT is refering to BALANCING X.

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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2013, 05:11
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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.
The non underlined portion "Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry" represents a action rather a noun & because we are making a comparison between two things we must use AS
A)like that for modern long-distance backpackers - Mention given above. Incorrect.
B)as that of modern long-distance backpackers - AS is followed by a Phrase rather than a clause. INcorrect
C)just as modern long-distance backpackers do - Meaning of DO is unclear. Incorrect
D)as do modern long-distance backpackers - Meaning of DO is unclear. Incorrect
E)as it is for modern long-distance backpackers- Correct
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jan 2016, 02:36
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers,[u] like that for modern long-distance backpackers.

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers. ==> What are compared here ? We dont compare a concern FOR ANCIENT PEOPLE with a concern FOR MODERN PEOPLE but the "Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies" FOR ANCIENT PEOPLE with the "Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies" FOR MODERN PEOPLE. so is must go with the subject. that's why this answer is incorrect

B) as that of modern long-distance backpackers ==> as should be followed by a clause.

C) just as modern long-distance backpackers do ==> Comparision is almost always accompanied by Parallelism so, it is Y as it is X

D) as do modern long-distance backpackers ==> Comparision is almost always accompanied by Parallelism

E) as it is for modern long-distance backpackers ==> use as with a clause correctly
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jan 2016, 03:00
The comparison is between ‘what was’, a verb of being with ‘what is’, another verb of being. Look at the two requirements namely the verb ‘was’ vs ‘is’ and the preposition ‘for’. A and B miss the verb of existence altogether but compare a verb with a noun, while C and D use an inappropriate action verb 'do' instead of verb of being. E is therefore the correct choice both for using the right verb and the preposition ‘for’.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jan 2016, 10:25
Countdown wrote:
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.


A)like that for modern long-distance backpackers
B)as that of modern long-distance backpackers
C)just as modern long-distance backpackers do
D)as do modern long-distance backpackers
E)as it is for modern long-distance backpackers


this question is similar to a question in og 10 a hard one.

how to eliminate choice A is hardest.

the simplest way to eliminate choice A is using paralelism. do not use meaning analysis here.
choice A is not paralel. we do not have "balancing for the hunter" at the begining of the sentence, so, we can not use "that for the backpackers" at the end. A is out.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2016, 22:57
Hi mikemcgarry,

I have some doubts that need you help.

1) In Choice E, What is pronoun 'it' antecedent? Is it 'balancing'? Should it be a noun not gerund? I think one of GMAT traps is using 'it' to describe an action so 'it' is incorrect. It should be treated like 'that' in choice A. I'm confused here.

2) Is 'just as' an idiomatic in GMAT? if yes, how could be used?

Thanks
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2016, 14:41
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Mo2men wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

I have some doubts that need you help.

1) In Choice E, What is pronoun 'it' antecedent? Is it 'balancing'? Should it be a noun not gerund? I think one of GMAT traps is using 'it' to describe an action so 'it' is incorrect. It should be treated like 'that' in choice A. I'm confused here.

2) Is 'just as' an idiomatic in GMAT? if yes, how could be used?

Thanks

Dear Mo2men,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

1) This is a subtle idea. You are perfectly correct that we can't use "it" or any other pronoun to refer to an action when that action is expressed as a full ordinary verb. For example:
She called me names and this upset me.
That colloquially acceptable sentence is not acceptable by GMAT standards, because the pronoun "this" refers to the action of a verb.
BUT---and this is a significant "but"---a gerund is a form of a verb that takes the role of a noun in every way. A gerund can occupy noun-roles in a sentence, such as subject or object of a preposition. A gerund can take articles, adjectives, appositives, and other noun modifiers. In much the same way, a gerund, acting as a noun, can serve perfectly fine as the antecedent for a pronoun. There is absolutely no problem with this. That's what is so fascinating about gerunds. We can encapsulate all the action of a verb, including direct objects, into something that occupies a noun-role in the sentence.
Notice that the pronoun "it," in the role of the empty "it," can refer to a gerund, an infinitive, or a substantive clause.

Do not make the mistake of subjecting gerunds & infinitives & participles to all the same rules that apply to full verbs, and vice versa. Relatedly, it's sloppy to talk about pronouns describing "an action," because it makes all the difference in the world the grammatical form in which the action has been conveyed.

2) The idiom "just as" is use to link two clauses, to emphasize the comparison that exists between two clauses. The word "just" simply intensifies the world "as." In particular, one idiomatic structure in English is the "just as X so Y" idiom, in which X & Y are independent clauses. For more help with idioms, download the free Magoosh GMAT Idiom Flashcards.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2016, 16:01
mikemcgarry wrote:
Mo2men wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

I have some doubts that need you help.

1) In Choice E, What is pronoun 'it' antecedent? Is it 'balancing'? Should it be a noun not gerund? I think one of GMAT traps is using 'it' to describe an action so 'it' is incorrect. It should be treated like 'that' in choice A. I'm confused here.

2) Is 'just as' an idiomatic in GMAT? if yes, how could be used?

Thanks

Dear Mo2men,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

1) This is a subtle idea. You are perfectly correct that we can't use "it" or any other pronoun to refer to an action when that action is expressed as a full ordinary verb. For example:
She called me names and this upset me.
That colloquially acceptable sentence is not acceptable by GMAT standards, because the pronoun "this" refers to the action of a verb.
BUT---and this is a significant "but"---a gerund is a form of a verb that takes the role of a noun in every way. A gerund can occupy noun-roles in a sentence, such as subject or object of a preposition. A gerund can take articles, adjectives, appositives, and other noun modifiers. In much the same way, a gerund, acting as a noun, can serve perfectly fine as the antecedent for a pronoun. There is absolutely no problem with this. That's what is so fascinating about gerunds. We can encapsulate all the action of a verb, including direct objects, into something that occupies a noun-role in the sentence.
Notice that the pronoun "it," in the role of the empty "it," can refer to a gerund, an infinitive, or a substantive clause.

Do not make the mistake of subjecting gerunds & infinitives & participles to all the same rules that apply to full verbs, and vice versa. Relatedly, it's sloppy to talk about pronouns describing "an action," because it makes all the difference in the world the grammatical form in which the action has been conveyed.

2) The idiom "just as" is use to link two clauses, to emphasize the comparison that exists between two clauses. The word "just" simply intensifies the world "as." In particular, one idiomatic structure in English is the "just as X so Y" idiom, in which X & Y are independent clauses. For more help with idioms, download the free Magoosh GMAT Idiom Flashcards.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Dear Mike,

Thanks a lot for detailed explanation. Your answers stimulated more questions :-D

1) Could 'that' refer to gerund also? Can I say "as THAT/THIS is for modern long-distance backpackers'??

2) In choice E, I subtitute the big sentence for 'it' but 'a concern' was omitted because it is understood or implied from the context. Am I right
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies ....... was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as balancing the need for sufficient food supplies is [a concern] for modern long-distance backpackers.


Thanks in advance
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2016, 16:38
Mo2men wrote:
Dear Mike,

Thanks a lot for detailed explanation. Your answers stimulated more questions :-D

1) Could 'that' refer to gerund also? Can I say "as THAT/THIS is for modern long-distance backpackers'??

2) In choice E, I subtitute the big sentence for 'it' but 'a concern' was omitted because it is understood or implied from the context. Am I right
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies ....... was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as balancing the need for sufficient food supplies is [a concern] for modern long-distance backpackers.

Thanks in advance

Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

1) A gerund acts as a noun. In other words, a gerund, in its relationships to every other word in the sentence outside of the gerund phrase, has exactly the same relationships that a noun would have. Any noun can be the antecedent of any kind of pronoun----personal pronouns (it, they), demonstrative pronouns (this, that, these, those) or relative/interrogative pronouns (which, that, whose). A gerund can do whatever a noun does, so a gerund also can be the antecedent to any of these pronouns.

2) Whether you were right depends on what you were trying to accomplish. The original sentence omits all of the repeated words: such action is in accord with the ideal of concision. What exactly is the point of including some of the repeated words and not including others? You can do this, of course, but what is the point?

Nightmare version in which everything is repeated:
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry is a concern for modern long-distance backpackers.
Dropping the words "a concern" from this is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The sentence in this form is an abomination that should be taken out back and shot. Adding or subtracting a tiny phrase is entirely irrelevant.

The OE, by contrast, is elegant in its concision.
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as it is for modern long-distance backpackers.

See
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 23 Mar 2016, 09:16
mikemcgarry wrote:
Mo2men wrote:
Dear Mike,

Thanks a lot for detailed explanation. Your answers stimulated more questions :-D

1) Could 'that' refer to gerund also? Can I say "as THAT/THIS is for modern long-distance backpackers'??

2) In choice E, I subtitute the big sentence for 'it' but 'a concern' was omitted because it is understood or implied from the context. Am I right
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies ....... was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as balancing the need for sufficient food supplies is [a concern] for modern long-distance backpackers.

Thanks in advance

Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

1) A gerund acts as a noun. In other words, a gerund, in its relationships to every other word in the sentence outside of the gerund phrase, has exactly the same relationships that a noun would have. Any noun can be the antecedent of any kind of pronoun----personal pronouns (it, they), demonstrative pronouns (this, that, these, those) or relative/interrogative pronouns (which, that, whose). A gerund can do whatever a noun does, so a gerund also can be the antecedent to any of these pronouns.

2) Whether you were right depends on what you were trying to accomplish. The original sentence omits all of the repeated words: such action is in accord with the ideal of concision. What exactly is the point of including some of the repeated words and not including others? You can do this, of course, but what is the point?

Nightmare version in which everything is repeated:
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry is a concern for modern long-distance backpackers.
Dropping the words "a concern" from this is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The sentence in this form is an abomination that should be taken out back and shot. Adding or subtracting a tiny phrase is entirely irrelevant.

The OE, by contrast, is elegant in its concision.
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, as it is for modern long-distance backpackers.

See
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)



Dear Mike,

1) If a gerund can be antecedent to 'that', I still do not understand why 'that' can't be antecedent to 'balancing'. i.e Why is choice A incorrect?


2) My point for question 2 is to examine parallelism in each part of the sentence as follows:

Pronoun 'it' is parallel to 'Balancing the need for..........'
Verb 'is' parallel to Verb 'was'
'a concern at times' has no parallel so it is implied in the second clause 'as it is.......'
'for modern long-distance backpackers' is parallel to 'for many ancient hunters and gatherers'

From the above every part has its counterpart, except ' a concern at times' which is implied from meaning. Am I correct or do i miss something?

Thanks
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2016, 11:10
Mo2men wrote:
Dear Mike,

1) If a gerund can be antecedent to 'that', I still do not understand why 'that' can't be antecedent to 'balancing'. i.e Why is choice A incorrect?

2) My point for question 2 is to examine parallelism in each part of the sentence as follows:

Pronoun 'it' is parallel to 'Balancing the need for..........'
Verb 'is' parallel to Verb 'was'
'a concern at times' has no parallel so it is implied in the second clause 'as it is.......'
'for modern long-distance backpackers' is parallel to 'for many ancient hunters and gatherers'

From the above every part has its counterpart, except ' a concern at times' which is implied from meaning. Am I correct or do i miss something?

Thanks

Dear Mo2men,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, first of all, a BIG idea that you need to understand is that it is impossible to get to GMAT SC mastery by learning some full set of rules. In fact, it is impossible even to understand parallelism purely by learning some mythical complete set of rules for parallelism. Language is a living thing, and to understand it deeply, you need to have experience with the language in use. In order to understand these sophisticated grammatical structures, it is crucial for non-native speakers to develop a habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

As to your individual questions:
1) Choice (A) is an awkward illogical disaster. In that choice, the word "that" is trying to represent not simply the gerund phrase, but the entire action of the first clause----the gerund phrase as well as the verb. Think about it. In choice (A), if you remove the word "that" and substitute the long gerund phrase, you will get something that makes absolutely no sense. One very good way to figure out the antecedent of a pronoun is to substitute the antecedent for the pronoun.

2) You are thinking too mathematically about parallelism. You are thinking about it almost as if it were some kind of circuitry diagram, and every loose end has to plug into something. Language does not work like this. Not every piece in the first branch of the parallelism has a correlate in the second part. Some shorter elements are implied simply by the corresponding space.
Consider the sentence:
Paris is the capital and cultural center of France, as Prague is of the Czech Republic.
That sentence is 100% correct and could be the correct answer on a GMAT SC problem. In that sentence, as in the sentence in this SC problem, repeated words are simply dropped because they are implied. They don't need a pronoun or a marker to stand in for them. In fact, if we put a pronoun in to represent omitted words, that would sound clumsy and awkward.
See this blog:
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2017, 20:28
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Countdown wrote:
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers
B) as that of modern long-distance backpackers
C) just as modern long-distance backpackers do
D) as do modern long-distance backpackers
E) as it is for modern long-distance backpackers


OFFICIAL SOLUTION



For a variety of reasons, the GMAT loves comparisons on the Sentence Corrections questions.  First of all, the terms of comparisons must be in parallel, and the GMAT loves parallel structure.  Furthermore, the comparisons on the GMAT are almost never (single word thing) vs. (single word thing), but, rather, nouns modified by extended phrases and clauses, so that one has to read carefully to sort out which two things are being compared.  Finally, they love distinctions like the “like” vs. “as” distinction.

The word “like” is a preposition, whose object is a noun, so it’s used for comparing noun-to-noun.  The word “as” is a subordinating conjunction, which is followed by a full noun + verb clause, so it is used to compare events, actions.

1) Correct: Blue tits, like peacocks, demonstrate strong sexual dimorphism.
2) Incorrect: Blue tits, as peacocks, demonstrate strong sexual dimorphism.
3) Incorrect: Mahler died after composing his ninth symphony, like Beethoven and Dvorak had before him.
4) Correct: Mahler died after composing his ninth symphony, as Beethoven and Dvorak had before him.

If the comparison is simply between nouns, use “like.”  If the comparison involves a full subject + verb clause, use “as.”

In sentence #1 above, (A) & (B) construct the comparison so that it focuses on a noun, the pronoun “that”, so “like that” would be correct and “as that” would be incorrect.  Unfortunately, both of these are merely phrases, not the full subject + verb clause that would be parallel to the main clause. 

Answers (C)-(E) all have “as” with a subject & verb, so w.r.t. the “like” vs. “as” question, all three work.  Distinguishing among (C)-(E) depends on the parallelism.  The verb in the main clause is “was”, a form of the verb “to be” — this balancing “was a concern” — and a proper parallel to a form of “to be” cannot be a form of “to do.”  Forms of the verb “to do” can form the proper parallel to almost any action verb, but not a form of “to be.” 

Both (C) & (D) have “do”, which is incorrect parallelism.  Finally, we want to create a parallel to “many ancient hunters and gatherers. Those words are preceded by the preposition “for”, so the parallel term must contain this same preposition.  Choice “E” has the correct preposition “for”, the correct “like” vs. “as” structure, and a form of “to be”: it has an elegant structure that is correct and far superior to the other incorrect choices.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2017, 23:43
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.
like does not go well in this sentence.
It has to be 'as' instead.

right use - 'concern for'

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers
eliminated
B) as that of modern long-distance backpackers
'for' is missing.
C) just as modern long-distance backpackers do
just as- no parallelism in the sentence.
D) as do modern long-distance backpackers
no parallelism in the sentence
E) as it is for modern long-distance backpackers
parallelism present. precise.

'concern for' compares to 'a it <concern> is for'
CORRECT.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 06:48

Magoosh official Solution:



Split #1a: parallelism in the comparison. Fundamentally, we want to compare the situation of ancient hunters to the situation of modern long-distance backpackers. These two groups must be presented in parallel. Before the underlined section, the first group follows the preposition "for" ---- "for many ancient hunters" ---- so the preposition "for" must also appear before "modern long-distance backpackers." Only choices (A) and (E) correctly repeat the word "for".

Split #1b: what are we comparing? We are not comparing just a single noun ---- [noun] of ancient hunters vs. [same noun] of modern long-distance backpackers. If we were comparing a single noun, we could use "like." Instead, the first part of the sentence as a full independent clause ("Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times") to which the "for ancient hunters" is attached. In the second half of the comparison, we will drop that whole independent clause, and substitute a replacement for it. First of all, the word "that" can be the replacement for a noun or noun-clause within a larger clause, but not for a full independent clause. Choices (A) and (B) are incorrect. If ancient hunters were the subject of the first clause, then we could substitute "modern long-distance backpackers do" in the second half, using "do" as a placeholder for the first verb. Here, though, ancient hunters were not the subject of the first clause, so anything involving "do" in the comparison is incorrect. Choices (C) and (D) are incorrect. We need to substitute for a full independent clause, and we can only replace one independent clause with another. The shortest possible third person independent clause is "it is", and this is precisely the substitution that (E) uses.

Choice (E) is the only possible answer.
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Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jun 2018, 03:03
Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies with what constitutes a manageable load to carry was undoubtedly a concern at times for many ancient hunters and gatherers, like that for modern long-distance backpackers.

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structure is - "something is concern for someone , as it is for someone" - ChoiceE is correct.
Note - we can't use like as it is followed by a clause.

A) like that for modern long-distance backpackers
B) as that of modern long-distance backpackers
C) just as modern long-distance backpackers do
D) as do modern long-distance backpackers
E) as it is for modern long-distance backpackers
Re: Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies   [#permalink] 13 Jun 2018, 03:03
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Balancing the need for sufficient food supplies

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