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Calling all W.P.Carey Applicants (2015 Intake) Class of 2017

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New post 04 Apr 2015, 11:13
Me too. What way are you guys leaning? I really wasn't expecting such an amazing offer from ASU. It's making my decision between a Hopkins dual MBA/MA in Design Leadership and ASU MBA very difficult. Add a 4/8 deadline and I'm getting little sleep

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New post 04 Apr 2015, 11:23
Casey10026 wrote:
Me too. What way are you guys leaning? I really wasn't expecting such an amazing offer from ASU. It's making my decision between a Hopkins dual MBA/MA in Design Leadership and ASU MBA very difficult. Add a 4/8 deadline and I'm getting little sleep

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At this point it's really hard for me to decide.

One the one hand, Rotman is the top MBA program in my country which means in the case of recession it has more staying power, has a much larger class size, and has a much more diversified placement situation (e.g. lots of finance, consulting, and tech), and I avoid the whole visa situation. But it's freaking cold man, and the pay isn't as good post graduation.

ASU is great, free tuition, warm weather, strong relationship with tech, low cost of living but poor placement in consultancy, and most of the tech recruiters recruit exclusively for SCM which isn't great. I'm also concerned about the lack of elective options seeing as its a smaller class so fewer classes will be offered.

I'm also curious as to the variability of employment by function - some years 15% are placed in consultancy, the next year it's 3%. Because of the small class size though that's a function of 5-8 people. I'm wondering if that's due to the fact students didn't want to go into consultancy that year, or because the school lacked the connections to place people in consultancy. Here's something that might be of interest to you guys - the 2013 employment report which goes into more depth about the employment situation (https://wpcarey.asu.edu/sites/default/f ... rofile.pdf).

One thing I also didn't like, which may sound stupid, but the three current students I met while interviewing at ASU were all married. I want to socialize with my classmates and enjoy myself and party, which is hard to do when your classmates are all married with kids (stupid part of my criteria, I know, but I want to have some fun)..
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New post 04 Apr 2015, 12:30
Thanks for the info rbfx. I will say I lived in Phoenix for a year and disliked it. It's beautiful in the winter but miserably hot during the spring and summers. It's also in th middle of nowhere. You have to get on a flight to get anywhere else in the US in any reasonable amount of time. The reason I did apply was because if their tech connections, but it was honostly a backup school for me... Then they sent me this damn amazing offer that I can't ignore. I didn't realize almost all tech recruitment involved supply chain management. Interesting about the students all being married. I never really thought about it in that context, but it actually makes sense to me (not married). Yeah, I've heard really good things about Rotman and would have applied if I wasn't from the U.S.

Without any specifics, how was your offer from Rotman? Are you negotiating after receiving your ASU offer?

I went back to Hopkins asking for more once I got ASUs offer, but they haven't come back with a new offer. I spoke to them and they said at the latest Monday, 4/6...so I'm in waiting mode.
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New post 04 Apr 2015, 12:48
Casey10026 wrote:
Thanks for the info rbfx. I will say I lived in Phoenix for a year and disliked it. It's beautiful in the winter but miserably hot during the spring and summers. It's also in th middle of nowhere. You have to get on a flight to get anywhere else in the US in any reasonable amount of time. The reason I did apply was because if their tech connections, but it was honostly a backup school for me... Then they sent me this damn amazing offer that I can't ignore. I didn't realize almost all tech recruitment involved supply chain management. Interesting about the students all being married. I never really thought about it in that context, but it actually makes sense to me (not married). Yeah, I've heard really good things about Rotman and would have applied if I wasn't from the U.S.

Without any specifics, how was your offer from Rotman? Are you negotiating after receiving your ASU offer?

I went back to Hopkins asking for more once I got ASUs offer, but they haven't come back with a new offer. I spoke to them and they said at the latest Monday, 4/6...so I'm in waiting mode.


It's funny your feelings about Phoenix. Being Canadian, I'd choose the scorching hot over the freezing -30 winters, and being in the middle of nowhere is nothing new for me, everything is a three hour flight away (minimum). I also have an established social circle, my mom's best friend and her son (my best friend) live in Phoenix, so that's an added benefit for me. Part of me also wants to end up in California, and I think ASU offers me the best opportunity to do that.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised about how all tech recruitment was for SCM. During my interview I posited the idea that, since these firms come to campus, they most obviously recruit for more things than JUST SCM positions, or at least, the established relationships they have with these firms must be helpful when it comes to finding other positions within the company. Their answer: Nope, most of the firms ONLY come for SCM positions.

One thing that jumped out at me about ASU which makes this decision even harder is how much work they put into their students, they were hands on, super helpful, super kind, and when they want you, they really want you. They're putting tons of money into their program with the new building, and it seems like they're really trying to build the program.

In regards to Rotman, I was offered nothing. But that being said because it's a domestic school for me, and I'm paying in Canadian currency, it's not that big of a deal to me. I only got the offer from ASU yesterday, so I have not yet had time to negotiate with Rotman. I hadn't even considered it, actually and don't really know how to go about doing it. Rotman offers me the best opportunities if I want to stay in Canada. However, being heavily weighted towards finance, things might be a bit more challenging for me.

This is literally a coin toss.
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New post 04 Apr 2015, 17:08
Yeah, I guess it's all about previous experiences in terms of weather... Lol. Also to think about, Phoenix and Toronto are very different cities. You will absolutely need a car in Phoenix, whereas in Toronto you could do without. I guess start drawing up the Pros and Cons list for each...

In terms of negotiating with Hopkins, I called my admissions contact and stated that I am very excited about their dual degree program and I felt it was made for my future goals (which is true), but I received an amazing offer from ASU. I gave her exact figures about the offer and asked if their was any possibility that they could increase my scholarship offer. I stated that although the Hopkins program is my 1st choice, I do have to make a financially responsible decision. She took it surprisingly well and even thanked me for contacting her about it. She stated she would talk to the people who make those decisions and get back to me...12 days later and she emailed me yesterday stating she would have an answer by Monday...

So now I'm just waiting

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New post 06 Apr 2015, 12:26
Any updates on your situation Casey? I'm curious to see how your negotiation is going, I may do the same myself.

You and rbsx brought up a lot of good points that I haven't thought of. I'm choosing between USC (no scholarship), UT Austin (with partial scholarship), and ASU (which will cover tuition and then some).

To your point rbsx, it sounds like a lot of your decision will come down to whether or not you want to be in the US or Canada after graduation. If you go to Rotman, your connections and network will be extremely solid throughout Canada... Likewise, if you end up at ASU, the transition to California would be very easy. With that said, I'm not sure how the visas work being an international student.

As far as ASU's program, I also noticed how many of the students were married. Class dynamic is also very important to me as silly as it sounds, I want to have fun as well during grad school. I'm wondering if a huge portion of the class is actually married, or if the married students are just more involved with meeting the prospective students within the ambassador program. As far as I know, ASU undergrad has a reputation for being one of the best schools for partying, so there will certainly be opportunities.

I also agree with your opinion about how much effort they put into each student. It seems like they're building the program exactly the way they want it and are putting a big investment into each student. As far as the career search goes, I'm sure they will help in every way possible, but I'm also concerned that if you are not going into SCM your options may be a little harder to come by. My interests are not necessarily aligned with SCM either, but I think that they would put a lot of effort into helping you along your path, which is not what I saw with other programs. Especially USC... I felt like they were disorganized and did not seem to care too much about the students, even though it is also a smaller program, relatively speaking.

After thinking it over this weekend, I'm leaning toward ASU so I'm curious to hear what you two are thinking as well.
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New post 06 Apr 2015, 13:08
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Hi Brett, did you interview on the 23rd? I think we've actually met. Just as a matter of interest, would you mind sharing your GPA/GMAT?

All of your thoughts are basically the same thoughts I've been having - it's kind of scary. The more and more I think about it though, the more and more I'm leaning away from ASU. It's easier for me to reply to your points in line so.. here we go.

Brettmurry wrote:
Any updates on your situation Casey? I'm curious to see how your negotiation is going, I may do the same myself.

You and rbsx brought up a lot of good points that I haven't thought of. I'm choosing between USC (no scholarship), UT Austin (with partial scholarship), and ASU (which will cover tuition and then some).



It looks like we applied to all the same schools. Unlike you however, I didn't get into Austin (wait listed) and USC (denied). I've had bad karma with USC for whatever reason, I think partially because I've been off put by how disorganized they are, their **** recruitment, and their aura of "we're USC, we have nothing to prove to you, you have everything to prove to us" attitude, when their program is in a complete state of disarray. Consequently, I think that came across in my application. I digress.

Quote:

To your point rbsx, it sounds like a lot of your decision will come down to whether or not you want to be in the US or Canada after graduation. If you go to Rotman, your connections and network will be extremely solid throughout Canada... Likewise, if you end up at ASU, the transition to California would be very easy. With that said, I'm not sure how the visas work being an international student.



You're pretty much on base here. A lot of it does come down to where I want to be, but there are some other things too.

The challenge with Rotman is this - it's VERY finance heavy (50% of grads end up in Finance). With oil the way it is right now and a depressed mining market, combined with a high price of living and lower pay, Rotman is a challenging value proposition. I'm not sure if the economy of Canada is going to be on very solid footing 2-3 years down the road.

Going to ASU means making more money, lower cost of living if I stay in the South West, but it also means forgoing the benefits of a larger, more well rounded program. ASU lacks the clubs, lacks the case competitions, lacks exchange and travel opportunities. On the other hand it's a smaller, more community minded program because you get to know absolutely everything. But I can't help notice how it lacks aspects which could only bolster your candidacy for future jobs.

The VISA situation isn't nearly as complicated for Canadians as it is for people from elsewhere, we automatically get 18 months to work in the USA as a part of our practical training time as a part of our F1 Visa.

For me the choice is - would I rather go to the top school in my country, in the fu**ing cold, make less money, but have more exposure to a diverse array of employers across multiple industries and functions, or would I rather go to ASU where I have no debt, better climate, but a less well rounded MBA experience, and perhaps be pigeon holed when it comes to work opportunities.

I still have not yet figured out the answer to that.

Quote:

As far as ASU's program, I also noticed how many of the students were married. Class dynamic is also very important to me as silly as it sounds, I want to have fun as well during grad school. I'm wondering if a huge portion of the class is actually married, or if the married students are just more involved with meeting the prospective students within the ambassador program. As far as I know, ASU undergrad has a reputation for being one of the best schools for partying, so there will certainly be opportunities.



There's a number of social challenges associated with Arizona's program, being married is only part of it. Being a smaller program there are:

-Fewer students to socialize with
-Fewer career/interest clubs (no interest clubs really - no beer club? no epicurean/food club? no sports clubs????)
-A larger proportion seem to be married and live further away
-Large number of foreign (and by foreign I mean not from North America foreign) students which poses some cultural barrier issues

To be blunt, I kind of want to party wherever I go. I'm a work hard party hard kind of guy. Though it appears to be great for that at an undergrad level, not so much at the graduate level. I'm worried everyone's going to have to go home after class and babysit the kids.

Quote:

I also agree with your opinion about how much effort they put into each student. It seems like they're building the program exactly the way they want it and are putting a big investment into each student. As far as the career search goes, I'm sure they will help in every way possible, but I'm also concerned that if you are not going into SCM your options may be a little harder to come by. My interests are not necessarily aligned with SCM either, but I think that they would put a lot of effort into helping you along your path, which is not what I saw with other programs. Especially USC... I felt like they were disorganized and did not seem to care too much about the students, even though it is also a smaller program, relatively speaking.



The more and more I dive into the ASU career statistics, the scarier and scarier it is for non-SCM guys. First and foremost, most of the tech companies which come to recruit only come for SCM positions, that's it. I was told this repeatedly by the students I talked to.

One statistic in particular is extremely misleading and alarming - consulting. Though they say they place anywhere from 5%-15% in the consulting function depending on what year you look at, that's not exactly the case. It's not strategy consulting really.

AT Kearney only recruits for SCM consulting positions from ASU, not strategy or anything else. Delloite starts people off in the AERS program, (audit and enterprise risk division), and to a lesser extent S&O with most ASU grads going into the operations side of Strategy & Operations. That effectively puts consulting as a non-option for me.

So the question remains, if you aren't interested in SCM - what do you do with your degree afterward?

It seems that they are trying to build something here - and it would be helpful if I had a better idea of what it was they were building towards. E.G. Are they trying to diversify the type of grads they are putting out, are they trying to grow the program, are they trying to make it more competitive and push it into the mid 20s?

Quote:

After thinking it over this weekend, I'm leaning toward ASU so I'm curious to hear what you two are thinking as well.


At this point I'm begrudgingly looking more and more at Rotman.
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New post 06 Apr 2015, 14:46
Well, if you would have asked me my decision prior to this morning, I was have said flip a coin...

But I just got a call from Hopkins and they came back big with a new scholarship offer. So good in fact, I just accepted over the phone (as I had a number in my head that would put me over the edge).

So, for all you on the waitlist, a new slot will be opening up as I just informed them.

My future career goals are more strongly aligned with Hopkins dual MBA/MA in Design Leadership program (I have a Design Background) and ASU Tech only targeting SCM really isn't where I want to go post-mba... A lot of factors mentioned above went into my decision making, and I really can only thank ASU for giving me such a great offer, as it allowed me to negotiate. Although I'm declining, I can say that if Hopkins didn't come back like they did, I wouldn't have got any sleep over the next couple days.

Anyway, good luck on making your decisions and update us once you all do.
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New post 06 Apr 2015, 14:49
Casey10026 wrote:
Well, if you would have asked me my decision prior to this morning, I was have said flip a coin...

But I just got a call from Hopkins and they came back big with a new scholarship offer. So good in fact, I just accepted over the phone (as I had a number in my head that would put me over the edge).

So, for all you on the waitlist, a new slot will be opening up as I just informed them.

My future career goals are more strongly aligned with Hopkins dual MBA/MA in Design Leadership program (I have a Design Background) and ASU Tech only targeting SCM really isn't where I want to go post-mba... A lot of factors mentioned above went into my decision making, and I really can only thank ASU for giving me such a great offer, as it allowed me to negotiate. Although I'm declining, I can say that if Hopkins didn't come back like they did, I wouldn't have got any sleep over the next couple days.

Anyway, good luck on making your decisions and update us once you all do.


Congratulations! I think I'm going to arrange a call with Rotman tomorrow and see if I can leverage something out of them.

Good luck at Hopkins!
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New post 06 Apr 2015, 15:37
rbsx wrote:

Congratulations! I think I'm going to arrange a call with Rotman tomorrow and see if I can leverage something out of them.

Good luck at Hopkins!


Thanks rbsx. Good luck with Rotman!
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New post 14 Apr 2015, 08:44
Quote:

As far as ASU's program, I also noticed how many of the students were married. Class dynamic is also very important to me as silly as it sounds, I want to have fun as well during grad school. I'm wondering if a huge portion of the class is actually married, or if the married students are just more involved with meeting the prospective students within the ambassador program. As far as I know, ASU undergrad has a reputation for being one of the best schools for partying, so there will certainly be opportunities.



Quote:
There's a number of social challenges associated with Arizona's program, being married is only part of it. Being a smaller program there are:

-Fewer students to socialize with
-Fewer career/interest clubs (no interest clubs really - no beer club? no epicurean/food club? no sports clubs????)
-A larger proportion seem to be married and live further away
-Large number of foreign (and by foreign I mean not from North America foreign) students which poses some cultural barrier issues

To be blunt, I kind of want to party wherever I go. I'm a work hard party hard kind of guy. Though it appears to be great for that at an undergrad level, not so much at the graduate level. I'm worried everyone's going to have to go home after class and babysit the kids.


I spent time at ASU during undergrad - it was great - but during the interview it seemed pretty clear that the grad students stay away from the undergrads. I became a little concerned as well because of this.

Quote:
The more and more I dive into the ASU career statistics, the scarier and scarier it is for non-SCM guys. First and foremost, most of the tech companies which come to recruit only come for SCM positions, that's it. I was told this repeatedly by the students I talked to.

One statistic in particular is extremely misleading and alarming - consulting. Though they say they place anywhere from 5%-15% in the consulting function depending on what year you look at, that's not exactly the case. It's not strategy consulting really.

AT Kearney only recruits for SCM consulting positions from ASU, not strategy or anything else. Delloite starts people off in the AERS program, (audit and enterprise risk division), and to a lesser extent S&O with most ASU grads going into the operations side of Strategy & Operations. That effectively puts consulting as a non-option for me.

So the question remains, if you aren't interested in SCM - what do you do with your degree afterward?

It seems that they are trying to build something here - and it would be helpful if I had a better idea of what it was they were building towards. E.G. Are they trying to diversify the type of grads they are putting out, are they trying to grow the program, are they trying to make it more competitive and push it into the mid 20s?


The assumption is that yes they are trying to diversify and push it higher in the rankings, I had heard unconfirmed rumors that they wanted to increase the program size as well - but at the same time they CURRENTLY have a top 3 SCM degree. I am personally looking into finance so I am interested in these recruitment statistics as well.
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New post 14 Apr 2015, 09:37
mm7312 wrote:
Quote:

As far as ASU's program, I also noticed how many of the students were married. Class dynamic is also very important to me as silly as it sounds, I want to have fun as well during grad school. I'm wondering if a huge portion of the class is actually married, or if the married students are just more involved with meeting the prospective students within the ambassador program. As far as I know, ASU undergrad has a reputation for being one of the best schools for partying, so there will certainly be opportunities.



Quote:
There's a number of social challenges associated with Arizona's program, being married is only part of it. Being a smaller program there are:

-Fewer students to socialize with
-Fewer career/interest clubs (no interest clubs really - no beer club? no epicurean/food club? no sports clubs????)
-A larger proportion seem to be married and live further away
-Large number of foreign (and by foreign I mean not from North America foreign) students which poses some cultural barrier issues

To be blunt, I kind of want to party wherever I go. I'm a work hard party hard kind of guy. Though it appears to be great for that at an undergrad level, not so much at the graduate level. I'm worried everyone's going to have to go home after class and babysit the kids.


I spent time at ASU during undergrad - it was great - but during the interview it seemed pretty clear that the grad students stay away from the undergrads. I became a little concerned as well because of this.

Quote:
The more and more I dive into the ASU career statistics, the scarier and scarier it is for non-SCM guys. First and foremost, most of the tech companies which come to recruit only come for SCM positions, that's it. I was told this repeatedly by the students I talked to.

One statistic in particular is extremely misleading and alarming - consulting. Though they say they place anywhere from 5%-15% in the consulting function depending on what year you look at, that's not exactly the case. It's not strategy consulting really.

AT Kearney only recruits for SCM consulting positions from ASU, not strategy or anything else. Delloite starts people off in the AERS program, (audit and enterprise risk division), and to a lesser extent S&O with most ASU grads going into the operations side of Strategy & Operations. That effectively puts consulting as a non-option for me.

So the question remains, if you aren't interested in SCM - what do you do with your degree afterward?

It seems that they are trying to build something here - and it would be helpful if I had a better idea of what it was they were building towards. E.G. Are they trying to diversify the type of grads they are putting out, are they trying to grow the program, are they trying to make it more competitive and push it into the mid 20s?


The assumption is that yes they are trying to diversify and push it higher in the rankings, I had heard unconfirmed rumors that they wanted to increase the program size as well - but at the same time they CURRENTLY have a top 3 SCM degree. I am personally looking into finance so I am interested in these recruitment statistics as well.


I talked to Rebecca Mallen about this - there is no intention for next year's class to be any larger - about 70 students, though in future years it may grow to 90, not a substantial enough of growth to make a difference.

I also got access to the their course registration system - their lack of electives is.. stunning.
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New post 18 Apr 2015, 22:20
Anyone else flying to Phoenix next week for the welcome weekend?
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New post 27 Apr 2015, 09:36
Declined my offer today. Best of luck to everyone.
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New post 28 Apr 2015, 10:29
rbsx wrote:
Declined my offer today. Best of luck to everyone.


Hi, I've been following your posts. Why did you decline? Did Rotman offer you a good package?

Let me know.
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New post 28 Apr 2015, 11:11
farrous13 wrote:
rbsx wrote:
Declined my offer today. Best of luck to everyone.


Hi, I've been following your posts. Why did you decline? Did Rotman offer you a good package?

Let me know.


Ultimately it came down to a lack of confidence in my ability to get a job I wanted in my field of interest afterward. As mentioned many times, the program (and career resources) are very SCM-centric.

After meeting with the career centre people, as well as getting the non-sales pitch down low on the situation from some current students my confidence was not improved about this aspect of the program. In fact, the more layers I peeled off the less confident that I became. I got a follow up email after the countdown weekend from a current student saying that there are many smart kids in this program who still don't have a job, or were going to have to take jobs that weren't particularly of interest to them.

Combining that with the fact that I'd be international, and that most students get placed in other parts of the states, (I'd want to live in or around Phoenix, or California), the lack of diversity in terms of electives, it just didn't make sense. Oh and the fact that some current students said the social life is virtually non existent which is pretty important to me.

On the Rotman side, I have exposure to top employers because it's the top school in my country, and more of an opportunity to segue back home if I wanted, as well as the opportunity to go into industries I'd never have if I went to Carey (Finance, Consulting, which ASU lacks the pedigree and career resources and classes to help students get into).

$$ was not a factor as I'm not paying for my degree.

Best of luck to everyone.
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New post 28 Apr 2015, 11:54
rbsx wrote:
farrous13 wrote:
rbsx wrote:
Declined my offer today. Best of luck to everyone.


Hi, I've been following your posts. Why did you decline? Did Rotman offer you a good package?

Let me know.


Ultimately it came down to a lack of confidence in my ability to get a job I wanted in my field of interest afterward. As mentioned many times, the program (and career resources) are very SCM-centric.

After meeting with the career centre people, as well as getting the non-sales pitch down low on the situation from some current students my confidence was not improved about this aspect of the program. In fact, the more layers I peeled off the less confident that I became. I got a follow up email after the countdown weekend from a current student saying that there are many smart kids in this program who still don't have a job, or were going to have to take jobs that weren't particularly of interest to them.

Combining that with the fact that I'd be international, and that most students get placed in other parts of the states, (I'd want to live in or around Phoenix, or California), the lack of diversity in terms of electives, it just didn't make sense. Oh and the fact that some current students said the social life is virtually non existent which is pretty important to me.

On the Rotman side, I have exposure to top employers because it's the top school in my country, and more of an opportunity to segue back home if I wanted, as well as the opportunity to go into industries I'd never have if I went to Carey (Finance, Consulting, which ASU lacks the pedigree and career resources and classes to help students get into).

$$ was not a factor as I'm not paying for my degree.

Best of luck to everyone.


Regardless, good job on getting accepted into Rotman. being Canadian myself, I am also looking to do my MBA and live in California (not really interested in Phoenix). However, moving to the States is not hard being Canadian (as per my research), so probably you can move via the L1A visa within the company you're employed at. But who knows, you might end up loving Toronto so much that you will refuse to leave.

Curious, is your employer paying for the degree?

Best of luck as well. Enjoy!
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Got the admit with $$$
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Calling all W.P.Carey Applicants (2015 Intake) Class of 2017   [#permalink] 04 May 2015, 11:20

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