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ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 10 Oct 2013, 11:38
egmat wrote:
atalwar wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some 10,000 years ago and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.

in above sentence (our basic sentence) why spawned is not modifying tentacles ? how it is modifying giant fungus?


Hi @atalwar,
Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some 10,000 years ago and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.

To understand why “spawned” refers to “a giant fungus”, we need to understand the role of the relative pronoun clause “that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles”.

Relative pronoun clauses are Noun Modifiers. Although they appear in a clause form, essentially they remain Noun Modifier. Now the verb-ed modifier can jump over another Noun Modifier that is placed just after the noun entity the verb-ed modifier is supposed to modify. The way the verb-ed modifier can jump over a prepositional phrase, in the same way it can jump over relative pronoun modifiers as well.

For more details on this topic, please read the following article:
noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html

So, here we have “spawned”, a verb-ed modifier that refers to a faraway noun “a giant fungus”. This is a logical modification.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi Shraddha,

here you have given a new way to look to me. I have earlier gone through the article 'modifiers can modify far' away noun and i was looking for preposition only. Thanks.
I have more questions :
1. Can we conclude that verb-ed modifier will always jump over the other nearby modifier and will modify the actual noun? As, in this sentence if we consider just the following part :
Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some 10,000 years ago and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.
spawned modifying tentacles is not causing any error (i suppose not in meaning as well as in grammar).
2. in this case if verb-ed modifier spawned would have not been there then there would had been no way to make these two lists parallel with give choices?
Example:
Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and rootlike tentacles and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.
As here that clause will be parallel to extending which is wrong?

Last edited by atalwar on 13 Oct 2013, 22:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 11 Oct 2013, 12:34
Hello Shraddha,

First of all, I want to thank you and e-gmat team for the wonderful articles.

Need your help in below official question.

By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

1. Why Choice A is wrong?
IC,AND IC (if we consider earned a verb)

2. What is wrong with the usage of earning(verb-ing modifier) here.
I have compared the above question with the example you have cited in verb-ing article :
Sachin Tendulkar played an exceptionally outstanding innings, making the team win gloriously.

Thanks

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 13 Oct 2013, 03:51
egmat wrote:
Great question Himanshu. Actually you have brought up a verb - originate - that has two possible meanings.
Meaning 1 - to create
Example 1 - Newton originated the idea of Gravitation

Meaning 2 - to come into being
Example 2 - The idea of gravitation originated from the discovery of a falling apple.


So as you can see the two meanings are pretty related to each other. In fact you can write the second example sentence in passive voice (using meaning 1 of the verb) as follows:

Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple.
Abbreviated Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple. INCORRECT
In this case the word "originated" is a verb-ed modifier. It is not a verb in past tense. In order to act as verb it needs "was".

Hope this helps with your doubt. Once again, great doubt!

Regards,
Payal



Hello Payal/e-gmat team,

I am still confused why we are not treating 'originated' as verb-ed modifier in choice C
1. Language Variations is not the doer of the action 'Originates'. Litmus test fails.

2. As per the definition of verb-ed modifier, we should be able to write verb-ed modifier in passive voice with the help of relative pronoun
The company extended the training period. (The company that was extended....does not make sense. Hence, extended is working as verb here)
The training period extended last year made interns unhappy. (The training period that was extended......makes sense. Hence, extended working as verb-ed modifier)

Now coming to the question.
Language variations originated from diverse ethnic... (Choice C)
Language variations that were originated from diverse ethnic ........ According to me the sentence makes complete sense. So, originated can be used as modifier here.

If originated is working as modifier in choice C, why Choice C is wrong ? (Originated and Perpetuated both are modifiers)

Please help where I am going wrong.

Thanks

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 22 Oct 2013, 09:36
karant wrote:
Hello Shraddha,

First of all, I want to thank you and e-gmat team for the wonderful articles.

Need your help in below official question.

By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

1. Why Choice A is wrong?
IC,AND IC (if we consider earned a verb)

2. What is wrong with the usage of earning(verb-ing modifier) here.
I have compared the above question with the example you have cited in verb-ing article :
Sachin Tendulkar played an exceptionally outstanding innings, making the team win gloriously.

Thanks


Hi karant,

Let us use the 3 step process to solve this problem

Meaning Analysis:

Pilot Jacqueline Cochran had seventeen records by 1940. She earned them at a time when aviation was still so new that many planes which she flew were of dangerously experimental design.

Sentence Structure Analysis:


    • By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and
    • she earned them at a time
      o when aviation was still so new for
      o many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

Notice that the noun “many of the planes” has no verb associated with it. Moreover, “for” is incorrect here. “that” should be used.

Option Choice Analysis:

Option A: Incorrect for the above mentioned reasons.

Option B: earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were

This option also incorrectly uses “for”. Moreover “that” in “at a time that aviation was still…” is incorrect. “when” should be used to refer to an event or time period.

Option C: earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

Again, “where” is incorrect in Option C. “when” should be used to refer to an event or time period.

Option D: earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were

such that” is used to present a purpose or intent. (For example, “The rock was fixed at an angle such that it doesn’t allow water to leak”). “that” is more appropriate in place of “such that” in this sentence.

Option E: earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

This is the correct option. Notice how this option corrects the errors present in the previous options. :)


karant wrote:
egmat wrote:
Great question Himanshu. Actually you have brought up a verb - originate - that has two possible meanings.
Meaning 1 - to create
Example 1 - Newton originated the idea of Gravitation

Meaning 2 - to come into being
Example 2 - The idea of gravitation originated from the discovery of a falling apple.


So as you can see the two meanings are pretty related to each other. In fact you can write the second example sentence in passive voice (using meaning 1 of the verb) as follows:

Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple.
Abbreviated Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple. INCORRECT
In this case the word "originated" is a verb-ed modifier. It is not a verb in past tense. In order to act as verb it needs "was".

Hope this helps with your doubt. Once again, great doubt!

Regards,
Payal



Hello Payal/e-gmat team,

I am still confused why we are not treating 'originated' as verb-ed modifier in choice C
1. Language Variations is not the doer of the action 'Originates'. Litmus test fails.

2. As per the definition of verb-ed modifier, we should be able to write verb-ed modifier in passive voice with the help of relative pronoun
The company extended the training period. (The company that was extended....does not make sense. Hence, extended is working as verb here)
The training period extended last year made interns unhappy. (The training period that was extended......makes sense. Hence, extended working as verb-ed modifier)

Now coming to the question.
Language variations originated from diverse ethnic... (Choice C)
Language variations that were originated from diverse ethnic ........ According to me the sentence makes complete sense. So, originated can be used as modifier here.

If originated is working as modifier in choice C, why Choice C is wrong ? (Originated and Perpetuated both are modifiers)

Please help where I am going wrong.

Thanks


Coming to your second query,

Please note that, the usage “Language variations were originated …” is incorrect.

For example, it is grammatically correct to say “Lizards originated from Dinosaurs”.

However, it is not grammatically correct to say “Lizards were originated from Dinosaurs”.

This is because there is no doer of the action “originated” in the second sentence.

Similarly, “Language variations that were originated” is incorrect.

So we cannot consider “originated” as a Verb-ed modifier in this sentence.

Hope this helps! :)

Regards,
Krishna
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 22 Oct 2013, 11:12
egmat wrote:
karant wrote:
Hello Shraddha,

First of all, I want to thank you and e-gmat team for the wonderful articles.

Need your help in below official question.

By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

1. Why Choice A is wrong?
IC,AND IC (if we consider earned a verb)

2. What is wrong with the usage of earning(verb-ing modifier) here.
I have compared the above question with the example you have cited in verb-ing article :
Sachin Tendulkar played an exceptionally outstanding innings, making the team win gloriously.

Thanks


Hi karant,

Let us use the 3 step process to solve this problem

Meaning Analysis:

Pilot Jacqueline Cochran had seventeen records by 1940. She earned them at a time when aviation was still so new that many planes which she flew were of dangerously experimental design.

Sentence Structure Analysis:


    • By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and
    • she earned them at a time
      o when aviation was still so new for
      o many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

Notice that the noun “many of the planes” has no verb associated with it. Moreover, “for” is incorrect here. “that” should be used.

Option Choice Analysis:

Option A: Incorrect for the above mentioned reasons.

Option B: earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were

This option also incorrectly uses “for”. Moreover “that” in “at a time that aviation was still…” is incorrect. “when” should be used to refer to an event or time period.

Option C: earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

Again, “where” is incorrect in Option C. “when” should be used to refer to an event or time period.

Option D: earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were

such that” is used to present a purpose or intent. (For example, “The rock was fixed at an angle such that it doesn’t allow water to leak”). “that” is more appropriate in place of “such that” in this sentence.

Option E: earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

This is the correct option. Notice how this option corrects the errors present in the previous options. :)


karant wrote:
egmat wrote:
Great question Himanshu. Actually you have brought up a verb - originate - that has two possible meanings.
Meaning 1 - to create
Example 1 - Newton originated the idea of Gravitation

Meaning 2 - to come into being
Example 2 - The idea of gravitation originated from the discovery of a falling apple.


So as you can see the two meanings are pretty related to each other. In fact you can write the second example sentence in passive voice (using meaning 1 of the verb) as follows:

Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple.
Abbreviated Example 3 - The idea of gravitation was originated by Newton when he discovered the falling apple. INCORRECT
In this case the word "originated" is a verb-ed modifier. It is not a verb in past tense. In order to act as verb it needs "was".

Hope this helps with your doubt. Once again, great doubt!

Regards,
Payal



Hello Payal/e-gmat team,

I am still confused why we are not treating 'originated' as verb-ed modifier in choice C
1. Language Variations is not the doer of the action 'Originates'. Litmus test fails.

2. As per the definition of verb-ed modifier, we should be able to write verb-ed modifier in passive voice with the help of relative pronoun
The company extended the training period. (The company that was extended....does not make sense. Hence, extended is working as verb here)
The training period extended last year made interns unhappy. (The training period that was extended......makes sense. Hence, extended working as verb-ed modifier)

Now coming to the question.
Language variations originated from diverse ethnic... (Choice C)
Language variations that were originated from diverse ethnic ........ According to me the sentence makes complete sense. So, originated can be used as modifier here.

If originated is working as modifier in choice C, why Choice C is wrong ? (Originated and Perpetuated both are modifiers)

Please help where I am going wrong.

Thanks


Coming to your second query,

Please note that, the usage “Language variations were originated …” is incorrect.

For example, it is grammatically correct to say “Lizards originated from Dinosaurs”.

However, it is not grammatically correct to say “Lizards were originated from Dinosaurs”.

This is because there is no doer of the action “originated” in the second sentence.

Similarly, “Language variations that were originated” is incorrect.

So we cannot consider “originated” as a Verb-ed modifier in this sentence.

Hope this helps! :)

Regards,
Krishna



Hello Krishna,

Thanks for replying.

I got your point in first question. But, I am more keen to know about the usage of -ing modifier in this question.

By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, earning them at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were of dangerously experimental design.

Is above sentence written correctly ? (although the above sentence is not in any of the answer choices).


I still have a doubt on second question. :cry:

The increased popularity and availability of televisions has led to the decline of regional dialects, language variations which originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated by geographic isolation.

(A) which originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
(B) that originated from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
(C) originated from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
(D) originating from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
(E) originating from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuating

This is because there is no doer of the action “originated” in the second sentence.
++ That is what I am saying. Since there is no doer of the action 'Originated', it should not be a verb (Litmus Test fails) and hence, it must act as a modifier
And if it is acting here as modifier, what is wrong in the answer choice C ?
Originated (modifier) and Perpetuated (modifier). Both are parallel.

Sorry if the above query seems unnecessary but I am really confused. :wink:

Thanks!!!

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 23 Oct 2013, 06:11
Hello Karant,

Answer to query 1: The modifier part is correct, although, in GMAT, there will never be 2 correct answers (I know you know this rule for sure but just felt like re-iterating it..:))

Answer to query 2:
For verb ed modifiers, always ask the question 'who verb-ed?'. Here the question will be 'who originated'. Language variations originated. 'Originated is a verb & not a modifier. I would say dont use 'who is the doer of the action' strategy for verb-ed modifiers. I have tried this method. It is bit confusing.
For verb-ing modifiers, check whether it is a gerund (verb-ing functioning as a noun) or a participle (verb-ing functioning as an adjective).
For eg.

'for improving soil': here ask the question 'is soil the doing the action of improving' No. Thus 'improving' is a gerund. 'monkeys sleeping on the branches'. Are 'monkeys' doing the action of sleeping'? Yes. Thus 'sleeping' is a participle.

Hope this explanation helps. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Heman2727
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2013, 13:14
heman2727 wrote:
Hello Karant,

Answer to query 1: The modifier part is correct, although, in GMAT, there will never be 2 correct answers (I know you know this rule for sure but just felt like re-iterating it..:))

Answer to query 2:
For verb ed modifiers, always ask the question 'who verb-ed?'. Here the question will be 'who originated'. Language variations originated. 'Originated is a verb & not a modifier. I would say dont use 'who is the doer of the action' strategy for verb-ed modifiers. I have tried this method. It is bit confusing.
For verb-ing modifiers, check whether it is a gerund (verb-ing functioning as a noun) or a participle (verb-ing functioning as an adjective).
For eg.

'for improving soil': here ask the question 'is soil the doing the action of improving' No. Thus 'improving' is a gerund. 'monkeys sleeping on the branches'. Are 'monkeys' doing the action of sleeping'? Yes. Thus 'sleeping' is a participle.

Hope this explanation helps. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Heman2727




Hey Thanks Heman2727 for the reply!!! :-D

Will practice more questions (Keeping in mind your rule) so that I may be able to differentiate between ed-modifier and ed-verb.


Regards,
Karan

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 24 Nov 2013, 18:47
Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for the article. I'm an e-gmat student and have a clarifying question.

In another of your e-gmat article titled 'Verb-Ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers', it is mentioned that the Verb-ED modifier modifies the immediately preceding noun; in the case that the immediately preceding noun is non-sensical, the Verb-ED modifier would modify the immediately preceding noun phrase. Moreover, the Verb-ED modifier cannot jump over a verb to modify a noun in the subject place. In this example, how can spawned modify 'a giant fungus'? Shouldn't be it modifying the noun phrase 'an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles'? If it were modifying 'a giant fungus', isn't it jumping over the verb 'is'?

How similar or different is this fungus example than the diabetes example in the article I cited here, in terms of the Verb-ED modifier issue?

Best,
Prital

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2013, 00:56
rxprital wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for the article. I'm an e-gmat student and have a clarifying question.

In another of your e-gmat article titled 'Verb-Ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers', it is mentioned that the Verb-ED modifier modifies the immediately preceding noun; in the case that the immediately preceding noun is non-sensical, the Verb-ED modifier would modify the immediately preceding noun phrase. Moreover, the Verb-ED modifier cannot jump over a verb to modify a noun in the subject place. In this example, how can spawned modify 'a giant fungus'? Shouldn't be it modifying the noun phrase 'an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles'? If it were modifying 'a giant fungus', isn't it jumping over the verb 'is'?

How similar or different is this fungus example than the diabetes example in the article I cited here, in terms of the Verb-ED modifier issue?

Best,
Prital


Hi Prital,

That is a very good observation. :)

Let us look at the sentence.

Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some 10,000 years ago and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.

You are right that "spawned" modifies "an interwoven filigree of mushrooms..."

But what according to the sentence is the "interwoven filigree of mushrooms...."?

Is it not giant fungus? :)

So, the verb-ed modifier isn't modifying "giant fungus" directly. It is modifying "interwoven filigree....". However, according to the sentence, since both "giant fungus" and "interwoven filigree..." are same, we can say that the verb-ed modifier modifies "giant fungus".

Hope this helps :)

Regards,
Krishna
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jan 2014, 08:36
Hi E-GMAT

Just in the reference of the above article , mainly on the how the Verb-ed modifier is derived, Could you please help me differentalting the two statement ,which are stated above and discussed in the article.

1. A leader guided his followers honestly earned immense respect from the mass.

2.Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

So in the statement 1.is very clear that the statement is in active voice . and guided and earned these two verb are not connected properly that leads to fragment error.

No in statement 2. if we remove that , then there is only one modifier flourished,which modify "the site of an ancient civilization ".

So my confusion is how does "that" helps here to remove the fragment here?. Flourished still modifying" the the site of an ancient civilization"

Could you please help me to highlight the main verb or whole sentence structures into clauses.

Thanks

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jan 2014, 07:53
Referring to the article mainly on "How the Verb-ED modifier is derived section".There are two sentence which are discussed in the article makes me a bit confuse.

1.A leader guided his followers honestly earned immense respect from the mass.

2.(OG12-#85) Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization [b]that flourished at the same time as the civilizations [/b]in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

My analysis and query...

The Statement 1 makes it very clear that guided and earned are not connected properly and the sentence is written in Active voice . So a relative pronoun is must in this statement.

But in Statement 2 ,even if you remove "That " the modifier flourished is modifying the civilization and i didn't see any other verb-ed or verb in the sentence after "that". So the statement seems correct to me.

Could you please Highlight the clauses in the sentence 2 and correct me where i'm going wrong?

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2014, 12:19
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Nitinaka19 wrote:
Referring to the article mainly on "How the Verb-ED modifier is derived section".There are two sentence which are discussed in the article makes me a bit confuse.

1.A leader guided his followers honestly earned immense respect from the mass.

2.(OG12-#85) Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization [b]that flourished at the same time as the civilizations [/b]in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

My analysis and query...

The Statement 1 makes it very clear that guided and earned are not connected properly and the sentence is written in Active voice . So a relative pronoun is must in this statement.

But in Statement 2 ,even if you remove "That " the modifier flourished is modifying the civilization and i didn't see any other verb-ed or verb in the sentence after "that". So the statement seems correct to me.

Could you please Highlight the clauses in the sentence 2 and correct me where i'm going wrong?


Hi Nitin,

Thanks for posting you doubt here.

1. A leader guided his followers honestly earned immense respect from the mass.

So your analysis for this one is absolutely correct.

Now let's look at the official sentence:
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

(Subjects = blue, Verb = green)

The word "that" in this official sentence has been used as a Relative Pronoun. It modifies and provides additional information about the previous noun entity "an ancient civilization". Since, "that" is the Subject of the Dependent Clause that it starts, "flourished" acts as the Verb for this Subject. It is the ancient civilization that did the action of flourishing itself. "flourished" is NOT a Verb-ed Modifier here because it is not an action that was done on the ancient civilization by something else.

If we remove the relative pronoun "that" from the sentence, then "flourished" will directly become the Verb for the Subject "an ancient civilization". in that situation, we will have Two Independent Clauses connected with each other with just a Comma. This is not grammatical.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2014, 01:21
bagdbmba wrote:
egmat wrote:
debayan222 wrote:

Correct these sentences if you feel they are incorrect.

1. The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty. = Incorrect
Correct = The lamp that decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty.

2. A leader guided his followers earned immense respect from the masses. = Incorrect
Correct = A leader who guided his followers earned immense respect from the masses.



Hi Shradhha,
For the first sentence-did the lamp do the action of decorating on its own? I guess not! Then how this sentence "The lamp that decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty." can be correct ? Please help me understand it.

For the second sentence-if we write this as 'A leader guided his followers and earned immense respect from the masses'...Will that be wrong ? Please explain.

Much appreciate your feedback.


Hi Debayan,

I can understand where your confusion arises from. You are thinking in lines of say: Amy decorated the room. Here, there is no confusion because Amy physically performed the action of decorating the room. However, in the “lamp sentence”, the lamp physically did not do the action of decorating the room. The word “decorated” has been used more in the sense of “beautified”. The lamp made the room more beautiful.

A leader guided his followers and earned immense respect from the masses.

Grammatically, this sentence is correct. However, the meaning is slightly different here. This sentence says that the leader did two things:
a. guided his followers
b. earned respect from the masses.

Both the actions are at the same level. However, in the e-gmat sentence, the leader performed one action “earned the respect”. Guiding the followers comes as the additional information in the sentence. The action of the IC and the action of the DC are not at the same level.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha





Hi Shraddha,

In the first sentence The lamp didnt not do the action of "Decorating" so it is modifier.
In the sentence "The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty." why we need to convert it into Relative clause by adding "that". As sentence can have modifier word and a verb right?

Please enlighten me. :(

Regards,
Rrsnathan.

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2014, 02:38
rrsnathan wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

In the first sentence The lamp didnt not do the action of "Decorating" so it is modifier.
In the sentence "The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty." why we need to convert it into Relative clause by adding "that". As sentence can have modifier word and a verb right?

Please enlighten me. :(

Regards,
Rrsnathan.


Hi Rrsnathan,
Whenever you see a sentence, try to break it down, so that you see the SV pair.
In your sentence,

The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty
Subject + Verb + object + Verb + object + prepositional phrase

As you see, one single subject is doing two actions without any conjunction separating the two actions. So, the sentence is wrong. There are two ways of correcting the same (depending on the meaning)

1. Either you introduce a conjunction at the appropriate place as,

The lamp decorated the child’s room and filled his room (it) with innocent beauty.

or

2. introduce a relative clause, so that only one action (verb) is done by the subject.
The lamp that decorated the child's room filled his room with innocent beauty.
(or)
The lamp decorated the child's room, which was filled with innocent beauty.

The first clause is restrictive or essential information
The second clause is non-restrictive or unessential information.

Hope this helps.

Note: The three sentences convey different meanings. But are grammatically correct.
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jan 2014, 11:39
rrsnathan wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

In the first sentence The lamp didnt not do the action of "Decorating" so it is modifier.
In the sentence "The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty." why we need to convert it into Relative clause by adding "that". As sentence can have modifier word and a verb right?

Please enlighten me. :(

Regards,
Rrsnathan.


Hi rrsnathan,

Let's take this sentence.

I decorated my room.

There is no doubt that here :decorated" is a verb because "I" - the Subject - himself/herself did the action of decorating the room.

Now let's take a look this one.

The lamp decorated the room.

Now here again, "The lamp" is the Subject and "decorated" is the Verb. Yes, this sentence is different from the sentence I presented above because here lamp is not a living being that used its hands to decorate the room. What this sentence conveys that the lamp adorned the room.

Now let's take the sentence that has confused you:

The lamp decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty.

Here again,
decorated" has been used in the same manner as it has been used in the second example presented above. So "decorated" is a verb here and Not a modifier. But again, there is one more Verb for the Subject "The lamp". That is "filled". A Subject CAN definitely have two Verbs, but they must be connected properly through a conjunction. We just CANNOT write two Verbs for one Subject side by side without joining them with a conjunction. So that's the problem here. We must do something so that the sentence remains grammatical. So there are multiple ways of doing that:

1. The lamp that decorated the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty.
2. The lamp decorating the child’s room filled his room with innocent beauty.
3. The lamp decorated the child’s room and filled his room with innocent beauty.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 19 Feb 2014, 07:01
Hi e-gmat,

I just want to clear one question, in the sentence:

Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some 10,000 years ago and extending for more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.

As sad "giant fungus" is the subject and "that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root like tentacles" is a modifier of it, as well as "spawned" and "extending", right?

My question is does the second clause has any verb? Because "Is" it's in the modifier part being the verb for "that" which refers to "giant fungus".

I know my question is a simple one but it is confusing me! :)

Thanks for your time.

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 19 Feb 2014, 14:02
Hi e-GMAT,

I was curious at what is the grammatical reason for following sentences being wrong :

The lamp decorated child's room, filled his room with innocent beauty
A leader guided his followers earned immense respect from masses

Is it because there is one subject and two verbs ?

Appreciate your reply.
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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 21 Feb 2014, 07:19
Hello EGmat!

For "1. Like birds today, Archaeopteryx had feathers that were fully formed.", I get that formed is in simple past tense. However, if we do the litmus test: Did feathers do the action of forming? It does not make sense right? In this case, formed should be a modifier, right?

Can you please clarify?

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 24 Mar 2014, 08:09
egmat wrote:
Sinner1706 wrote:
Can we say, for the sake of time, that whenever we spot a Verb-ing modifier without comma we can safely assume that it modifies the previous eligible noun/noun phrase and never functions as a verb, until -ing is present with helping verbs such as was, is, are etc.

When we encounter a Verb-ed modifier, we need to be more cautious and confirm whether it is a simple past tense or a modifier?

Otherwise we can always say for Option D & E that since Language Variations is the doer of the action Originating, it functions as the verb.

In Short, the Litmus test mentioned in the tutorial only applies to Verb-ed modifiers and not Verb-ing modifiers.


Hi Sinner1706,

Yes, your takeaways are correct.

1. When a verb-ing modifier is not preceded by a comma, it always modifies the previous noun entity - a single word noun or a noun phrase.
2. It is correct that just a verb-ing word cannot function as a continuous/progressive verb tense unless it is preceded by such helping verbs as is/am/are/was/were etc.
3. When we see a verb-ed word, we must make sure whether it is a simple past tence verb or a modifier. This is so because a verb-ed word can play both these functions. A verb-ed word is generally taken to be a simple past tense verb when it may be functioning as a modifier.
4. There is no Litmus Test for verb-ing modifier because just the verb-ing word CANNOT function as progressive verb tense if it is not preceded by a heping word. There is no way of confusing just the verb-ing word with a verb.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi,

We can change the verb-ed form verb into modifier by adding -ing but we cannot change the Verb-ed modifier into verb. Correct me if i am wrong?

Thanks in advance,
Rrsnathan.

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers [#permalink]

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New post 12 Apr 2014, 06:07
Hi,
Please see this :

Anthropological research teams visited several Afghan cities,filming neighborhoods, digitizing old photographs that are turning up and interviewing locals to better understand the aftermath of the decade-long conflict.

Quote:
cities, filming neighborhoods, digitizing old photographs that are turning up and interviewing

Quote:
cities, filming neighborhoods, digitizing old photographs that turned up, and interviewing

cities, filmed neighborhoods, digitizing old photographs that turned up, and interviewed

cities and filmed neighborhoods, digitizing old photographs that are turning up, and interviewed

cities, filmed neighborhoods, digitized old photographs, turned up and interviewed


in this why -ed form is not correct because they visited the cities and filmed..
Filming must not be used considering your explanation which states that : Verb-ing is used to show ' how something is done' or show result of something .. in this case neither of the two is there .. why is it using - ing form

Nidhi

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Re: ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers   [#permalink] 12 Apr 2014, 06:07

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