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# If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first

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If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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28 Jan 2012, 18:13
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If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of d?

(1) 10^d is a factor of f
(2) d>6
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Last edited by Bunuel on 30 Oct 2012, 01:42, edited 2 times in total.
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If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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28 Jan 2012, 18:18
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If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of d?

(1) 10^d is a factor of f --> $$k*10^d=30!$$.

First we should find out how many zeros $$30!$$ has, it's called trailing zeros. It can be determined by the power of $$5$$ in the number $$30!$$ --> $$\frac{30}{5}+\frac{30}{25}=6+1=7$$ --> $$30!$$ has $$7$$ zeros.

$$k*10^d=n*10^7$$, (where $$n$$ is the product of other multiples of 30!) --> it tells us only that max possible value of $$d$$ is $$7$$. Not sufficient.

Side notes: 30! is some huge number with 7 trailing zeros (ending with 7 zeros). Statement (1) says that $$10^d$$ is factor of this number, but $$10^d$$ can be 10 (d=1) or 100 (d=2) ... or 10,000,000 (d=7). Basically $$d$$ can be any integer from 1 to 7, inclusive (if $$d>7$$ then $$10^d$$ won't be a factor of 30! as 30! has only 7 zeros in the end). So we cannot determine single numerical value of $$d$$ from this statement. Hence this statement is not sufficient.

(2) d>6 Not Sufficient.

(1)+(2) From (2) $$d>6$$ and from (1) $$d_{max}=7$$ --> $$d=7$$.

Hope it helps.
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28 Jan 2012, 18:19
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Trailing zeros:
Trailing zeros are a sequence of 0s in the decimal representation (or more generally, in any positional representation) of a number, after which no other digits follow.

125000 has 3 trailing zeros;

The number of trailing zeros in the decimal representation of n!, the factorial of a non-negative integer n, can be determined with this formula:

$$\frac{n}{5}+\frac{n}{5^2}+\frac{n}{5^3}+...+\frac{n}{5^k}$$, where k must be chosen such that 5^(k+1)>n

It's more simple if you look at an example:

How many zeros are in the end (after which no other digits follow) of 32!?
$$\frac{32}{5}+\frac{32}{5^2}=6+1=7$$ (denominator must be less than 32, $$5^2=25$$ is less)

So there are 7 zeros in the end of 32!

The formula actually counts the number of factors 5 in n!, but since there are at least as many factors 2, this is equivalent to the number of factors 10, each of which gives one more trailing zero.

For more on this concept check Everything about Factorials on the GMAT: everything-about-factorials-on-the-gmat-85592.html
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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29 Jan 2012, 15:50
Hi Bunuel thanks - all makes sense apart from the concept of trailing zeros.

Am I right in saying this is how you said there will be 7 zero's.

30/5 + 30/25 = 6 + 1 (quotient) = 7. Where I am not clear is have you simply divided 30/25? I hope I am making myself clear, if I am not then please let me know.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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29 Jan 2012, 16:00
enigma123 wrote:
Hi Bunuel thanks - all makes sense apart from the concept of trailing zeros.

Am I right in saying this is how you said there will be 7 zero's.

30/5 + 30/25 = 6 + 1 (quotient) = 7. Where I am not clear is have you simply divided 30/25? I hope I am making myself clear, if I am not then please let me know.

Yes, you take only the integer part. For example how many trailing zeros does 126! have?

126/5+126/5^2+126/5^3=25+5+1=31.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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04 Jun 2013, 21:17
Hi. I think there is a solution without knowing the trailing zeros formula. Of course I. alone will not be enough (d= 10 or d=100 do the trick) and II. d>6 is vague. Now, to evaluate I and II together, like you know that 10 = 2*5, and 10^x = (2*5)^x = 2^x*5^x, if 10^d is a factor of f, like f = 1*2*3*4*5...*30, you need to see how many 2s and 5ves you can get. You have plenty of 2s, so lets focus on the 5ves. You actually get 7 fives between 1 and 30 (one in 5,10,15,20,30 and two in 25). So basically d could be any number between 1 and 7. Like II is "d>6", you know that d = 7.

(my 1st post, sorry for style... just trying to help, I suck at knowing formulas, although they save you time. (I learned a lot from this forum, Bunuel is my Guru!))
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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04 Jun 2013, 22:25
I'm having trouble understanding "the product of the first 30 positive integers"
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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05 Jun 2013, 00:19
Yahtzeefish wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding "the product of the first 30 positive integers"

The product of the first 30 positive integers = 1*2*3*...*29*30=30!.

Check Factorials chapter of our Math Book for more: everything-about-factorials-on-the-gmat-85592.html

Hope it helps.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2015, 10:11
Bunuel wrote:
If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of d?

(1) 10^d is a factor of f --> $$k*10^d=30!$$.

First we should find out how many zeros $$30!$$ has, it's called trailing zeros. It can be determined by the power of $$5$$ in the number $$30!$$ --> $$\frac{30}{5}+\frac{30}{25}=6+1=7$$ --> $$30!$$ has $$7$$ zeros.

$$k*10^d=n*10^7$$, (where $$n$$ is the product of other multiples of 30!) --> it tells us only that max possible value of $$d$$ is $$7$$. Not sufficient.

Side notes: 30! is some huge number with 7 trailing zeros (ending with 7 zeros). Statement (1) says that $$10^d$$ is factor of this number, but $$10^d$$ can be 10 (d=1) or 100 (d=2) ... or 10,000,000 (d=7). Basically $$d$$ can be any integer from 1 to 7, inclusive (if $$d>7$$ then $$10^d$$ won't be a factor of 30! as 30! has only 7 zeros in the end). So we can not determine single numerical value of $$d$$ from this statement. Hence this statement is not sufficient.

(2) d>6 Not Sufficient.

(1)+(2) From (2) $$d>6$$ and from (1) $$d_{max}=7$$ --> $$d=7$$.

Hope it helps.

there are not just 5 and 2 which multiplies to 10 but also 2*5.. then the number of 10's in the product can be greater than 7 isnt it?
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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20 Apr 2015, 04:44
SunthoshiTejaswi wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of d?

(1) 10^d is a factor of f --> $$k*10^d=30!$$.

First we should find out how many zeros $$30!$$ has, it's called trailing zeros. It can be determined by the power of $$5$$ in the number $$30!$$ --> $$\frac{30}{5}+\frac{30}{25}=6+1=7$$ --> $$30!$$ has $$7$$ zeros.

$$k*10^d=n*10^7$$, (where $$n$$ is the product of other multiples of 30!) --> it tells us only that max possible value of $$d$$ is $$7$$. Not sufficient.

Side notes: 30! is some huge number with 7 trailing zeros (ending with 7 zeros). Statement (1) says that $$10^d$$ is factor of this number, but $$10^d$$ can be 10 (d=1) or 100 (d=2) ... or 10,000,000 (d=7). Basically $$d$$ can be any integer from 1 to 7, inclusive (if $$d>7$$ then $$10^d$$ won't be a factor of 30! as 30! has only 7 zeros in the end). So we can not determine single numerical value of $$d$$ from this statement. Hence this statement is not sufficient.

(2) d>6 Not Sufficient.

(1)+(2) From (2) $$d>6$$ and from (1) $$d_{max}=7$$ --> $$d=7$$.

Hope it helps.

there are not just 5 and 2 which multiplies to 10 but also 2*5.. then the number of 10's in the product can be greater than 7 isnt it?

5*2 and 2*5 are the same thing.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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27 Apr 2015, 05:07
REALY HARD
just count the numbers of the number 2 and 5, to see that the max is 7.
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If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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27 Apr 2015, 06:27
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thangvietnam wrote:
REALY HARD
just count the numbers of the number 2 and 5, to see that the max is 7.

I hope the students are clear here about why we only need to consider the number of 5s in the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1

10 = 2*5

So, to make one 10, we need one 2 and one 5.

In the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1, the number of 2s far exceeds the number of 5s.

Therefore, since 5 is the limiting multiplicand here, we only need to consider the number of 5s.

Apply this discussion

Suppose the question was:

If p is the maximum integer such that $$35^p$$ is a factor of the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of p?

How would you proceed to find the value of p?

Regards

Japinder
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Last edited by EgmatQuantExpert on 28 Apr 2015, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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27 Apr 2015, 21:23
interesting question. hard but basic

math questions from prep companies are normally harder than gmat typical ones.

do not study too hard questions on math.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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27 Apr 2015, 21:31
in gmatprep there are many too difficult questions.

if we practice harder questions, take the questions form og or gmatprep not from prep companies. because the harder questions from prep companies are not basic. gmat is very basic.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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28 Apr 2015, 00:17
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EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
thangvietnam wrote:
REALY HARD
just count the numbers of the number 2 and 5, to see that the max is 7.

I hope the students are clear here about why we only need to consider the number of 5s in the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1

10 = 2*5

So, to make one 10, we need one 2 and one 5.

In the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1, the number of 2s far exceeds the number of 5s.

Therefore, since 5 is the limiting multiplicand here, we only need to consider the number of 5s.

Apply this discussion

Suppose the question was:

If p is the maximum integer such that $$35^p$$ is a factor of the product of the first 30 integers, what is the value of p?

How would you proceed to find the value of p?

Regards

Japinder

Hello EgmatQuantExpert.

Really artful question )

We know that $$35$$ has two factors $$5$$ and $$7$$
First impulse is to just take answer from previous question because of presence of $$5$$ but we should calculate that number, that has less occurrences
So $$5$$ in $$30!$$ meets $$7$$ times
but $$7$$ in $$30!$$ meets $$4$$ times.

And we can infer that $$30!$$ will be divisible by $$35$$ only $$4$$ times.
So $$p = 4$$
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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28 Apr 2015, 04:27
Harley1980 wrote:
Hello EgmatQuantExpert.

Really artful question )

We know that $$35$$ has two factors $$5$$ and $$7$$
First impulse is to just take answer from previous question because of presence of $$5$$ but we should calculate that number, that has less occurrences
So $$5$$ in $$30!$$ meets $$7$$ times
but $$7$$ in $$30!$$ meets $$4$$ times.

And we can infer that $$30!$$ will be divisible by $$35$$ only $$4$$ times.
So $$p = 4$$

Dear Harley1980

Spot-on analysis and correct answer. Good job done!

Best Regards

- Japinder
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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01 Jun 2015, 17:10
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EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
thangvietnam wrote:
REALY HARD
just count the numbers of the number 2 and 5, to see that the max is 7.

I hope the students are clear here about why we only need to consider the number of 5s in the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1

10 = 2*5

So, to make one 10, we need one 2 and one 5.

In the product 30*29*28. . .3*2*1, the number of 2s far exceeds the number of 5s.

Therefore, since 5 is the limiting multiplicand here, we only need to consider the number of 5s.

Apply this discussion

Suppose the question was:

If p is the maximum integer such that $$35^p$$ is a factor of the product of the first 30 positive integers, what is the value of p?

How would you proceed to find the value of p?

Regards

Japinder

I think We need to do prime factorization of 35 = 5 x 7 so to make one 35 we need one 5 & one 7.

Now, we will calculate how many 5's & 7's are there in the 30!.

It will be :

30/5 + 30/5x5 = 7 # of 5's

Also, 30/7 = 4 # of 7's.

Thus, 7 is the limiting multiplicand here. We have four such pairs of 5 x 7 . Thus the maximum power of 35 will be 4 so as to divide 30! evenly.

I really like your step by steo approach to each question.

Regards,
Ankush.
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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30 Dec 2015, 01:04
Bunuel : I understood the solution but what i didn't understand is ..why isn't statement 1 sufficient. We know the trailing zeros are 7and can only be 7 because it would otherwise exceed 30! ..so wouldn't A be enough to tell us that d=7.

although statement 2 says d>6 ..and if we combine them it just reconfirms the same thing.
can you pls help me fill the gap in my understanding .
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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first [#permalink]

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30 Dec 2015, 01:07
puneetkaur wrote:
Bunuel : I understood the solution but what i didn't understand is ..why isn't statement 1 sufficient. We know the trailing zeros are 7and can only be 7 because it would otherwise exceed 30! ..so wouldn't A be enough to tell us that d=7.

although statement 2 says d>6 ..and if we combine them it just reconfirms the same thing.
can you pls help me fill the gap in my understanding .

From (1) we only know that max possible value of d is 7.

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Re: If d is a positive integer and f is the product of the first   [#permalink] 30 Dec 2015, 01:07

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