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In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam

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In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Oct 2014, 20:32
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In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.


(A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

(B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States

(C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States

(D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States

(E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2016, 08:07
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I am still confuse between suggested that and suggesting that


Suggested – past participle. It is used as a verb here.

The rising number and Tet offensive (subject) Suggested (Verb) X.
X = that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.
So you have a complete sentence (subject + verb + object) when you use suggested. Hence correct usage.

Suggesting:
Suggesting is present participle. It is the ing form of verb suggest. Suggesting can be used as a verb in progressive tenses. But you would need helping verb with suggesting. Example – she was suggesting me to write a book.

Quote:
Also not meaning the meaning of the term verbless when we use -ing


So when you write “”The rising number and Tet offensive (subject) Suggesting (Verb) X.”” – then you see, you do not have a verb. Hence it is not a sentence. You can call it verbless.

For more information --- suggesting is verbal not a verb. You use it as a gerund (noun) or use it as a ing form with helping verb in progressive tenses.

To be very sure of these usages – read verb-ed and verb-ing modifier. Have a look at following post by e-gmat and your concept will be clear: http://gmatclub.com/forum/verb-ed-modifiers-vs-verb-ing-modifiers-125611.html
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Oct 2014, 21:21
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Aug 2016, 23:02
kinjiGC wrote:
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.


A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States - correct.
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States - suggested vietnam? wrong meaning.
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States - there are no two events
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States -verbless
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States -verbless
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2016, 07:44
Hi All

I am still confuse between suggested that and suggesting that

Also not getting the meaning of the term verbless when we use -ing
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Dec 2016, 07:41
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Dec 2016, 21:26
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sleepynut wrote:
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks



Hi Sleepynut,


I somehow selected the correct answer; however, I cannot answer properly the question asked by you.

But, I think this might be helpful for you.


by the time x, y

In the above construction, Y should happen before(not after) X

For example

By the time the conference ended, all the members had left.

That means

all the members left before the conference ended

--------Time1--------------time2---------

----members left------confernce ended----

And past perfect tense should be used in the clause which happend before. As y happened before, so it should have past perfect tense.

Hope it helps...

+1 Kudos if you like the post :)
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jan 2017, 00:54
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sleepynut wrote:
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks


Your first query:

The given OA seems to be wrong.

A past perfect tense is used to depict that one event (in past perfect) happens before another event (in simple past). However the latter event need not be depicted by a verb in simple past but can be depicted by a point of time as well ( such as 3 pm or 1960s as in the given question).

By the time my father arrived, I had completed my homework. (the latter event is the arrival of my father - depicted by simple past)
By 3 pm, I had completed my homework. (the latter event is not a verb - depicted by 3 pm).

Similarly,
By late 1960's the rising number had suggested that.... should be the correct tense. (Though this would still be wrong because the suggesting happened in the late 1960's - Tet offensive in 1968.)

The simple past would be correct, if the opening prepositional phrase were "In the late 1960s" instead of "By the late 1960s".


Your second query:

The usage "winnable for" is better than "winnable to".
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jan 2017, 05:26
whenever a verb has been changed to +ing format in options. See if you have a helping verb ? If you dont have it. Then it is not a sentence to be acceptable.

If you have one, then see is it change in tense from past to present.

Well in this case e & D are ruled out.

Had is not valid because you dont have a prior verb or action to make it past perfect.

In A & B.

A makes sense. The rising X suggest something

Suggested X means It suggested to X

Suggested that X means It said "X ....."

A it is
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jan 2017, 10:17
MadhaviDevarakonda wrote:

Had is not valid because you dont have a prior verb or action to make it past perfect.



You are mistaken in that a past perfect always requires another verb or event. A time reference may also require a past perfect tense. By + time reference MUST take a past perfect as explained in my post above:

by-the-late-1960s-the-rising-number-187705.html#p1783223

The OA seems to be grammatically incorrect.

Some very tricky tense questions may be formulated using the above concept, in which the later event is in past perfect and the former in past! Following is an excerpt from Manhattan SC guide, which clarifies the concept:

Also note that the later past event does not need to be expressed with a Simple Past tense verb. You could just use a date or another time reference.
Right: Bv 1945. the United States HAD BEEN at war for several years.
Using this construction, you can even make a tricky sentence in which the first clause expresses an early action in Simple Past. Then, a second clause expresses a later action in Past Perfect to indicate continued effect (by a still later past time).
Right: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2017, 11:02
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aditya8062 wrote:
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence



in some of the examples shown if by time phrase is present in the sentence we should use past perfect to do verb sequencing...
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2017, 02:45
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I would like to request to review this question.

According to sayantanc2k the question is flawed.

I also request to consider the comment of mihir0710.

Moreover, in support of the views of the above two users, some sentences with sources are cited below:

By the end of the Apollo program, twelve Americans had walked on the moon.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 25416.html
https://gmatclub.com/forum/sc-problem-225246.html

By 1945, the US had been at war for several years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 27088.html

By the start of the 1991 track season, the men's long-jump record had stood for 23 years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t4406.html
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2017, 05:50
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Mahmud6 wrote:
I would like to request to review this question.

According to sayantanc2k the question is flawed.

I also request to consider the comment of mihir0710.

Moreover, in support of the views of the above two users, some sentences with sources are cited below:

By the end of the Apollo program, twelve Americans had walked on the moon.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 25416.html
https://gmatclub.com/forum/sc-problem-225246.html

By 1945, the US had been at war for several years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 27088.html

By the start of the 1991 track season, the men's long-jump record had stood for 23 years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t4406.html


The question has been edited to take care of the issue ("By the late 1960s" is replaced with "In the late 1960s").
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In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 22 Jun 2018, 23:11
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It looks as if the passage has been edited changing the original preposition 'by' with 'in' by the Gmatclub admin. In the 60s can go with simple past 'suggested' since it is a specific period. However, 'by the 60's' can go with past perfect 'had suggested.' Until the picture is clear, we would be just beating around the bush Perhaps a word from the author would clear the haze
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Originally posted by daagh on 21 Jun 2018, 07:34.
Last edited by daagh on 22 Jun 2018, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2018, 05:04
daagh wrote:
It looks as if the passage has been edited changing the original preposition 'by' with 'in' by the Gmatclub admin to suit the OA. In the 60s can go with simple past 'suggested' since it is a specific period. However, 'by the 60's' can go with past perfect 'had suggested.' Until the picture is clear, we would be just beating around the bush Perhaps a word from the author would clear the haze


Yes sir,
That's what made me skeptical about my knowledge on usage of "By" as this requires us to use past perfect. The 1st event in past is By late 1960s. 2nd event cannot be past tense. It must be past perfect. That's why i posted this question. Now, Thanks to you i can be sure that By xyz always requires past perfect. Magoosh Mike is the author of this question.
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2018, 23:00
aditya8062 wrote:
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence




Can anyone tell , why 'had suggested' can not be used in C as attack was done before win/lost situation
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2018, 23:31
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What suggested to the US that the Vietnam Project was futile were the increasing number of casualties by the late 60's and the 1968 Tet offensive by the Vietcong.
The rising number also indicates that the losses were ongoing and continuing with no end in sight.

If we use the past perfect, then these incidents must have taken place and ended in the deeper past than the realization by the US. But the incidents and the realization by the US seem to have happened concurrently. So, why do we need a past perfect?
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Sep 2018, 08:14

Official Explanation


A question about the 1968 Tet Offensive, a turning point in the Vietnam War.

In general, the verb “to suggest” requires the word “that” in the formal context of the GMAT. Choices (A) & (E) have the word “that,” while (B) lacks this word. Choice (C) uses the idiomatic incorrect structure “suggest X to be Y”—choice (C) is incorrect.

Choice (B), in addition to lacking the word “that,” also seems to suggest illogically that Vietnam is in the United States. Choice (B) is incorrect.

Another problem is the famous missing verb mistake. We have a compound subject, “the rising number . . . and the 1968 Tet Offensive.” That’s the subject, and it needs a verb. Choice (A), (B), and (C) supply a real verb, but (D) & (E) provide simply the participle “suggesting,” so that the whole sentence lacks a main verb. Both of those choices are incorrect.

Choice (A) is the only possible answer.
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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jan 2020, 05:58
Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question-

kinjiGC wrote:
In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.


(A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

(B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States

(C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States

(D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States

(E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States


Choice A: This answer choice maintains proper tense and idiom use and conveys the intended meaning of the sentence. Thus, this answer choice is correct.

Choice B: This answer choice employs the incorrect idiom form "situation to the United States" rather than the correct form "situation for the United States." Additionally, this answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence by employing the incorrect adjective, "ultimate". This adjective carries the connotation of being the final or most extreme form of something; its use in this context means that the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive suggested that Vietnam was the most unwinnable situation for the United States. The correct adjective to use here is "ultimately", which is synonymous with "finally"; by employing this adjective, the sentence can convey the correct meaning that that the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive suggested that Vietnam was, in the end, an unwinnable situation for the United States. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice C: This answer choice incorrectly utilizes the past perfect tense; the past perfect tense is used to refer to events that concluded before the end of some other event in the past. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice D: This answer choice utilizes the "verb+ing" modifier, "suggesting" in the final clause. Resultantly, the sentence no longer has a main verb to act upon the subject "the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive" and is incorrect. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice E: This answer choice commits the same error found in Option D. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Hence, A is the best answer choice.

To understand the concept of "Past Perfect Tense - Use of Had on GMAT", you may want to watch the following video (~2 minutes):



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Re: In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam   [#permalink] 23 Jan 2020, 05:58
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