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# By the late 1960s, the rising number

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By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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29 Oct 2014, 21:32
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In the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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29 Oct 2014, 21:49
kinjiGC wrote:
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States

2 splits

For the United States(A and E)/ To the united states(B,C and D)..

For the united states is unwinnable situation is correct usage here...

Option E ,suggesting without helping verb means sentence does not have a proper verb..

Ans is A
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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29 Oct 2014, 22:21
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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08 Nov 2014, 14:07
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence

Can you please explain why option D & E are not even sentence?
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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10 Nov 2014, 03:45
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can anyone please tell me why suggesting is wrong in E as it is representing a result of the previous sentence ?Does ing form every time requires helping verb?
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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20 May 2016, 15:35
kinjiGC wrote:
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States

Hi ! I had a small doubt here.

Here "ultimately" is an adverb. Right ? And an Adverb always modifies a verb. But here it seems to modify a noun. is it correct ?

A Sentence from GmatPrep:

Most of Portugal’s 250,000 university students boycotted classes in a one-day strike to protest a law that requires them to contribute \$330 a year toward the cost of higher education, previously paying \$7 per year.

When you'd look at this question, you'll find that choice
[Reveal] Spoiler:
C
is incorrect because an adverb is incorrectly modifying a noun in it.

link to that question in Gmatclub: most-of-portugals-250-000-university-students-boycotted-105146.html

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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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20 May 2016, 19:31
i think we can use past perfect in main clause containing "by+point of time" .

is that impossible?
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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21 May 2016, 03:54
kinjiGC wrote:
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States

thangvietnam

Mike explains it so clearly that I dont think you'd be able to make a mistake again on this topic ever :D

If I may quote Mike "Does this all make sense ?"
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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14 Aug 2016, 00:02
kinjiGC wrote:
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States - correct.
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States - suggested vietnam? wrong meaning.
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States - there are no two events
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States -verbless
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States -verbless
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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15 Aug 2016, 08:44
Hi All

I am still confuse between suggested that and suggesting that

Also not getting the meaning of the term verbless when we use -ing
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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15 Aug 2016, 09:07
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Quote:
I am still confuse between suggested that and suggesting that

Suggested – past participle. It is used as a verb here.

The rising number and Tet offensive (subject) Suggested (Verb) X.
X = that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.
So you have a complete sentence (subject + verb + object) when you use suggested. Hence correct usage.

Suggesting:
Suggesting is present participle. It is the ing form of verb suggest. Suggesting can be used as a verb in progressive tenses. But you would need helping verb with suggesting. Example – she was suggesting me to write a book.

Quote:
Also not meaning the meaning of the term verbless when we use -ing

So when you write “”The rising number and Tet offensive (subject) Suggesting (Verb) X.”” – then you see, you do not have a verb. Hence it is not a sentence. You can call it verbless.

For more information --- suggesting is verbal not a verb. You use it as a gerund (noun) or use it as a ing form with helping verb in progressive tenses.

To be very sure of these usages – read verb-ed and verb-ing modifier. Have a look at following post by e-gmat and your concept will be clear: http://gmatclub.com/forum/verb-ed-modifiers-vs-verb-ing-modifiers-125611.html
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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24 Dec 2016, 08:41
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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24 Dec 2016, 22:26
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sleepynut wrote:
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks

Hi Sleepynut,

But, I think this might be helpful for you.

by the time x, y

In the above construction, Y should happen before(not after) X

For example

By the time the conference ended, all the members had left.

That means

all the members left before the conference ended

--------Time1--------------time2---------

----members left------confernce ended----

And past perfect tense should be used in the clause which happend before. As y happened before, so it should have past perfect tense.

Hope it helps...

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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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01 Jan 2017, 01:54
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sleepynut wrote:
Hi all,
Can anyone please elaborate more in the usage of "by the time" at the beginning of the sentence?
I am familiar with only such a form of "by the time x,y";y happen after x.However,there is no x in this context.
What is the time frame of this context?

Moreover,is the preposition "to" or "for" a split in this question?

Thanks

The given OA seems to be wrong.

A past perfect tense is used to depict that one event (in past perfect) happens before another event (in simple past). However the latter event need not be depicted by a verb in simple past but can be depicted by a point of time as well ( such as 3 pm or 1960s as in the given question).

By the time my father arrived, I had completed my homework. (the latter event is the arrival of my father - depicted by simple past)
By 3 pm, I had completed my homework. (the latter event is not a verb - depicted by 3 pm).

Similarly,
By late 1960's the rising number had suggested that.... should be the correct tense. (Though this would still be wrong because the suggesting happened in the late 1960's - Tet offensive in 1968.)

The simple past would be correct, if the opening prepositional phrase were "In the late 1960s" instead of "By the late 1960s".

The usage "winnable for" is better than "winnable to".
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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01 Jan 2017, 06:26
whenever a verb has been changed to +ing format in options. See if you have a helping verb ? If you dont have it. Then it is not a sentence to be acceptable.

If you have one, then see is it change in tense from past to present.

Well in this case e & D are ruled out.

Had is not valid because you dont have a prior verb or action to make it past perfect.

In A & B.

A makes sense. The rising X suggest something

Suggested X means It suggested to X

Suggested that X means It said "X ....."

A it is
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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01 Jan 2017, 11:17

Had is not valid because you dont have a prior verb or action to make it past perfect.

You are mistaken in that a past perfect always requires another verb or event. A time reference may also require a past perfect tense. By + time reference MUST take a past perfect as explained in my post above:

by-the-late-1960s-the-rising-number-187705.html#p1783223

The OA seems to be grammatically incorrect.

Some very tricky tense questions may be formulated using the above concept, in which the later event is in past perfect and the former in past! Following is an excerpt from Manhattan SC guide, which clarifies the concept:

Also note that the later past event does not need to be expressed with a Simple Past tense verb. You could just use a date or another time reference.
Right: Bv 1945. the United States HAD BEEN at war for several years.
Using this construction, you can even make a tricky sentence in which the first clause expresses an early action in Simple Past. Then, a second clause expresses a later action in Past Perfect to indicate continued effect (by a still later past time).
Right: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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31 May 2017, 20:19
sayantanc2k wrote:

Had is not valid because you dont have a prior verb or action to make it past perfect.

You are mistaken in that a past perfect always requires another verb or event. A time reference may also require a past perfect tense. By + time reference MUST take a past perfect as explained in my post above:

http://gmatclub.com/forum/by-the-late-1 ... l#p1783223

The OA seems to be grammatically incorrect.

Some very tricky tense questions may be formulated using the above concept, in which the later event is in past perfect and the former in past! Following is an excerpt from Manhattan SC guide, which clarifies the concept:

Also note that the later past event does not need to be expressed with a Simple Past tense verb. You could just use a date or another time reference.
Right: Bv 1945. the United States HAD BEEN at war for several years.
Using this construction, you can even make a tricky sentence in which the first clause expresses an early action in Simple Past. Then, a second clause expresses a later action in Past Perfect to indicate continued effect (by a still later past time).
Right: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

Thank you sayantanc2k Sir, your post literally saved my confidence and faith in the concept...

After reading the "By the late 1960's..." I was damn sure that it's the only tense that will work here and straight away marked option C only to realize that OA is A...
I started scouring through my concept notes (from e-gmat) and it re-instated the same thing that it should be a past perfert tense here...

Just when I was about to doubt my concepts, I bump into your post...

Can we NOT edit the question (and change it to "In the late 1960s..) or edit the options C (and change the last part of the sentence "for the United States"), so that others don't suffer like me...
Since the question is marked as "Mangoosh" source, it has very high credibility and the subject of Tense forms is already a bit complicated that not many have concept clarity like you, so folks here will take the question & OA for granted....
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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01 Jun 2017, 07:31
By the late 1960s, the rising number of American casualties in Vietnam and the 1968 Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong's coordinated surprise attack on American installations throughout the whole of Vietnam, suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States.

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States - Correct
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States - suggested Vietnam is illogical - that is needed ; unwinnable situation to the United States is incorrect idiom
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States - Past perfect tense is incorrect ;unwinnable situation to the United States is incorrect idiom
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States - missing verb ;unwinnable situation to the United States is incorrect idiom
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States - missing verb

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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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27 Jun 2017, 12:02
A it is: suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States

faults in bold :

A) suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation for the United States
B) suggested Vietnam to be an ultimate unwinnable situation to the United States------------>"suggested Vietnam" seems to imply that "Vietnam" was suggested
C) had suggested that Vietnam was an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States------------>no point using past perfect
D) suggesting Vietnam to be an ultimately unwinnable situation to the United States--------> not even a sentence
E) suggesting that Vietnam was an ultimate unwinnable situation for the United States ------------>not even a sentence

in some of the examples shown if by time phrase is present in the sentence we should use past perfect to do verb sequencing...
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number [#permalink]

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29 Jun 2017, 03:45
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I would like to request to review this question.

According to sayantanc2k the question is flawed.

I also request to consider the comment of mihir0710.

Moreover, in support of the views of the above two users, some sentences with sources are cited below:

By the end of the Apollo program, twelve Americans had walked on the moon.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 25416.html
https://gmatclub.com/forum/sc-problem-225246.html

By 1945, the US had been at war for several years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 27088.html

By the start of the 1991 track season, the men's long-jump record had stood for 23 years.
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t4406.html
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Re: By the late 1960s, the rising number   [#permalink] 29 Jun 2017, 03:45

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