Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the : Sentence Correction (EA only)

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

28 Apr 2021, 17:09

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Hi experts, MartyTargetTestPrep GMATNinja AjiteshArun

Responses have been saying that the "it" is unclear within B, C, and D, but isn't it just flat out incorrect? "It" would logically refer to "the amount of energy [used by equipment that...are visible]," making it illogical in the second part after "it." Isn't "it" restrictively modified by the "used...visible" (which is my logic for why I think "it" is incorrect)?

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

29 Apr 2021, 14:04

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samgyupsal
You're absolutely right. That's why when I get to "it" in those choices, I don't even feel the need to keep reading. We can't have "it" when we're trying to introduce a new thing--the energy used by unobtrusive equipment. This is exactly where relative pronouns such as "that" and "those" shine. If we want to refer back to an earlier noun without including its restrictive modifiers, we need a relative pronoun. I can't say "The US healthcare system is less equitable than it is in Japan," because then "it" = "the US healthcare system." However, I can say "The US healthcare system is less efficient than that of Japan," because "that" just refers to the "healthcare system" without the "US" part.

(Notice that this usage relies a bit on meaning. We interpret "that" as "healthcare system" and not just "system," because otherwise the comparison doesn't make any sense.)

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

10 Aug 2021, 22:59

Hi! I have a doubt.

The first "that" isn't quite right: it seems to be modifying "equipment, -- "that" usually modifies the noun closest to it, right? How can we be sure that it modifies equipment in this case?

GMATNinja wrote:

Hm, lots of "that" going on here, plus some bonus pronoun and meaning stuff. If you're not sure what to do with the word "that",

Quote:

A. equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that

The first "that" isn't quite right: it seems to be modifying "equipment," since "such as lights" is a self-contained little modifying phrase (an appositive, if you like grammar jargon), and the last chunk of the sentence is clearly discussing equipment in general, not just the lights. But there's a problem: "equipment... that are visible." Subject-verb fail.

What about the second "that"? It's a singular pronoun in this case, and I'd argue that it unambiguously refers back to "the amount of energy", since there's a super-clear parallel structure: "people tend to overestimate the amount of energy used by equipment [that is visible]... and underestimate that used by unobtrusive equipment..." And that seems completely fine: "people tend to... underestimate the amount of energy used by unobtrusive equipment" makes perfect sense.

But the first "that" is still a mess. Eliminate (A).

Quote:

B. equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

Same subject-verb error as in (A).

I'm also really not crazy about the use of "when" here: literally, they're saying that people underestimate the amount of energy used at the moment when the energy is used by unobtrusive equipment. And that's not quite right: the underestimate is something that happens in general, and not at a specific moment in time. Either way, (B) is out.

Quote:

C. equipment, such as lights, that is visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

"...equipment... that IS visible" is right, but we have the same "when" problem as in (B). Now that I think about it, I'm also not crazy about the "it" -- the pronoun is a long way from its antecedent, "the amount of energy." The pronoun "that" is much clearer in (A) or (D), because of the parallel structure.

If you wanted to be conservative and hang onto (C) at first, that's great -- I would do the same. But as we'll see in a moment, there's a much better option.

Quote:

D. visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate that

Ooh, this looks great. No subject-verb issue, plus it's pleasantly succinct: "visible equipment... that must be turned on and off" is way better than "equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off." And as discussed above, "that" is a nice, clear pronoun. Keep (D).

Quote:

E. visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

The first part of the underlined portion is nice, but the last chunk "and underestimate it when" is a little bit shaky, both in terms of the pronoun agreement and the meaning of the word "when", as discussed above. (D) is clearly a better choice.

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

24 Aug 2021, 12:46

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AnjuliM wrote:

Hi! I have a doubt.

The first "that" isn't quite right: it seems to be modifying "equipment, -- "that" usually modifies the noun closest to it, right? How can we be sure that it modifies equipment in this case?

You never want to go on autopilot and simply assume "that" is describing whatever it's closest to. Will "that" often be closest to whatever it's modifying? Sure. But it's certainly not a rule, so you need to consider logic and context.

Here, you'd want to note two things. First, the modifying phrase "such as lights" is set off by commas. If the author were talking about "lights that needed to be turned on and off," there'd be no reason to put a comma between "lights" and "that."

Also, this sentence is about how much energy visible equipment uses versus how much energy "unobtrusive" equipment uses. If the visible equipment is getting turned on and off, we'd have an explanation for why people assume that this kind of equipment would use more energy than the other category. But if it's just lights that are turned on and off, then we'd know nothing about visible equipment in general and suddenly the comparison doesn't really make sense.

Taken together, it's perfectly reasonable to assume the "that" modifier is describing the visible equipment. And generally speaking, the litmus test for a modifier should be as simple as whether it's reasonably close to something it logically describes. That's it. Once you confirm this is the case in (D), you'd want to move on to other issues.

I hope that helps!

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

12 Dec 2021, 11:40

Hi GMATNinja

Quote:

"...equipment... that IS visible" is right, but we have the same "when" problem as in (B). Now that I think about it, I'm also not crazy about the "it" -- the pronoun is a long way from its antecedent, "the amount of energy." The pronoun "that" is much clearer in (A) or (D), because of the parallel structure.

In option C why do you think "that" would be better than "it" in terms of parallelism? Aren't they both performing as pronouns?

people tend to overestimate the amount of energy... and underestimate it....
people tend to overestimate the amount of energy... and underestimate that....

Thank you for your valuable reply

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

18 Dec 2021, 09:21

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gloomybison wrote:

Hi GMATNinja

Quote:

"...equipment... that IS visible" is right, but we have the same "when" problem as in (B). Now that I think about it, I'm also not crazy about the "it" -- the pronoun is a long way from its antecedent, "the amount of energy." The pronoun "that" is much clearer in (A) or (D), because of the parallel structure.

In option C why do you think "that" would be better than "it" in terms of parallelism? Aren't they both performing as pronouns?

people tend to overestimate the amount of energy... and underestimate it....
people tend to overestimate the amount of energy... and underestimate that....

Thank you for your valuable reply

Let's take another look at choice (D). We're talking about two distinct quantities here:

the amount of energy

used by

visible

that

used by

unobtrusive

Both quantities are in the same parallel form: "[noun/pronoun used by [adjective] equipment." Because the pronoun "that" comes right before "used by," we expect this pronoun to refer to the thing that comes before "used by" in the first quantity ("the amount of energy"). That natural interpretation makes perfect sense and is exactly what we want.

In (C), the two quantities don't have the same parallel form:

the amount of energy

used by

it

when used by

Without the parallel form to guide us, it becomes perfectly reasonable for a reader to initially assume that "it" refers to "equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off, " leading to the following misinterpretation:

overestimate

underestimate

Sure, you can figure out that this doesn't make any sense, and eventually land on the intended meaning. But the parallel structure in (D) guides us to a reasonable meaning much more naturally.

That's no smoking gun, but between that point and the same "when" issue that we saw in choice (B) (for more on that, refer to our original explanation), (D) is a better choice.

I hope that helps!

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

22 Jun 2022, 23:19

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vaivish1723 wrote:

Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the amount of energy used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

When we look at the sentence we observe "and" this indicates there is parallelism.

So overestimate is parallel to underestimate.

underestimate that used by unobtrusive equipment should be structurally parallel to overestimate the amount of energy used by equipment

(A) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that
Wrong comparison equipment vs unobtrusive equipment, Ideally it should be visible equipment.

(B) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when
Same as A

(C) equipment, such as lights, that is visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when
Same as A

(D) visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate that Here that refers to the amount of energy

(E) visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate it when Pronoun reference error

Hence D is the best answer

Pro-Tip: In SC we are not looking for a perfect answer, All we need to do is to eliminate the choices that are definitely wrong. The correct answer might not be a perfect one, but it will the best of all.

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27 Jun 2022, 15:08

vaivish1723 wrote:

Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the amount of energy used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

(A) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that
(B) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when
(C) equipment, such as lights, that is visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

Hi DmitryFarber IanStewart KarishmaB EducationAisle
- focussing on the yellow THAT modifiers -

How can one be sure - that the THAT modifiers (highlighted in yellow above) HAVE to modify "Equipment" ?

To me, the yellow modifiers made complete sense to be modifying Lights as well.

Lights can be visible and Lights can be turned on /off

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

28 Jun 2022, 20:10

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jabhatta2 wrote:

vaivish1723 wrote:

Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the amount of energy used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

(A) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that
(B) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when
(C) equipment, such as lights, that is visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

Hi DmitryFarber IanStewart KarishmaB EducationAisle
- focussing on the yellow THAT modifiers -

How can one be sure - that the THAT modifiers (highlighted in yellow above) HAVE to modify "Equipment" ?

To me, the yellow modifiers made complete sense to be modifying Lights as well.

Lights can be visible and Lights can be turned on /off

'such as lights' is separated from the rest of the sentence by commas. It gives an example of 'equipment' and is a non essential modifier.
A modifier with 'that' is an essential modifier and cannot be separated with commas.

If 'that' were to modify 'lights,' it would look like this:

... equipment, such as lights that are visible and must be turned on and off, and underestimate ...

But actually, this is what we have:

equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate
and if we remove the non essential modifier, we get
equipment that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate ...

'that' modifier is an essential modifier and it modifies 'equipment.' Hence, we need to use 'is.'

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Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

29 Jun 2022, 06:23

Hi Experts : DmitryFarber IanStewart KarishmaB EducationAisle

- I eliminated (B), (C) and (E) because of the pronoun - "it". Reason -

The "it" picks up SAME antecedent with its modifiers

- Amount of energy (used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off)

So the sentence in (B), (C), and (E) becomes

Quote:

people tend to overestimate the amount of energy (used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off) and underestimate amount of energy used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off (=it) when used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

We need to refer "amount of energy" BUT from a different source

Fair way to eliminate ?

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

30 Jun 2022, 05:45

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jabhatta2 wrote:

Hi Experts : DmitryFarber IanStewart KarishmaB EducationAisle

- I eliminated (B), (C) and (E) because of the pronoun - "it". Reason -

The "it" picks up SAME antecedent with its modifiers

- Amount of energy (used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off)

So the sentence in (B), (C), and (E) becomes

Quote:

people tend to overestimate the amount of energy (used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off) and underestimate amount of energy used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off (=it) when used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

We need to refer "amount of energy" BUT from a different source

Fair way to eliminate ?

Hello jabhatta2,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, your reasoning here is, indeed, correct; the pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, and the pronouns “it” and "they" are used to refer to the exact same subject.

Kudos.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

30 Jun 2022, 06:00

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jabhatta2 wrote:

Hi Experts : DmitryFarber IanStewart KarishmaB EducationAisle

- I eliminated (B), (C) and (E) because of the pronoun - "it". Reason -

The "it" picks up SAME antecedent with its modifiers

- Amount of energy (used by equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off)

So the sentence in (B), (C), and (E) becomes

Quote:

people tend to overestimate the amount of energy (used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off) and underestimate amount of energy used by equipment that is visible and must be turned on and off (=it) when used by unobtrusive equipment, such as water heaters.

We need to refer "amount of energy" BUT from a different source

Fair way to eliminate ?

Yes, 'it' does refer to the 'same' antecedent.

People overestimate energy used by B and underestimate it ('it' stands for 'energy used by B') when used by C - Incorrect and not parallel
People overestimate energy used by B and underestimate that used by C - Correct

B

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

30 Aug 2022, 11:40

please review my understanding below:

(A) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that

In 'that are visible': 'that' is used as RPC referring back to 'lights'
anything wrong in the usage above?

Also in ''underestimate that used by'' : 'that' is used as demonstrative pronoun and can refer to singular or plural entity.

I have always had this confusion: - just 'that' can be both singular and plural
and 'that of' is only singular

(E) visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

'it' is fine.
'when' is used to describe an instance , thats why the usage is wrong??

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

31 Aug 2022, 15:09

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Anshul1223333

*"that are visible" is supposed to be modifying "equipment," so we need "that is." The lights are just an example of the kind of equipment we're talking about. We need the restrictive modifier starting with "that" to narrow down what equipment we're talking about. Otherwise, the first part of the sentence is about ALL equipment, and then we're explaining what equipment means by talking about one very specific kind of light. At that point, the sentence has completely fallen apart.

*As for "that" in general, it is always singular. When we see something like "books that are more than 300 pages," the word "that" is not serving as a subject--it's just introducing a restrictive noun modifier. When I use "that" as a relative pronoun to refer back to an earlier noun, that noun must always be singular. Otherwise,I use "those." "The energy used by the lights is less than that used by the speakers." "The speakers used for this show are higher-powered than those we used last week." Notice that these pronouns only refer back to the general category of thing (energy, speakers), not the specific thing mentioned earlier (energy used by lights, speakers used for this show.) "It" doesn't work that way, and that's why we can't use it. (I have gone into more detail on this in earlier posts, and Karishma also covered it just above, but let me know if I can clarify further.)

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02 Sep 2022, 00:45

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Anshul1223333 wrote:

(A) equipment, such as lights, that are visible and must be turned on and off and underestimate that

In 'that are visible': 'that' is used as RPC referring back to 'lights'

"That" does not refer to "lights".
Please recall that the relative pronoun that is not blocked off by commas. Therefore, if this pronoun indeed modified lights, you would see that whole string of words without a comma: "...such as lights that are visible"

The way that must work here is, instead, to apply to equipment. The plural verb is thus incorrect; equipment, a singular noun, requires a singular verb.

Importantly, the commas here are NOT blocking off the modifier starting with "that"! They belong to the modifier "such as lights".

Without that modifier, "that" would be non-comma-blocked as always: (here the verb is changed into the singular form that's needed here to match "equipment")
equipment that IS visible...

Adding the modifier gives this structure. The commas are color-coded here for clarity:
equipment, such as lights, that IS visible...

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Re: Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the [#permalink]

02 Sep 2022, 00:56

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Anshul1223333 wrote:

Also in ''underestimate that used by'' : 'that' is used as demonstrative pronoun and can refer to singular or plural entity.

I have always had this confusion: - just 'that' can be both singular and plural
and 'that of' is only singular

Be sure not to confuse the RELATIVE PRONOUN "that", used to BEGIN A MODIFIER, with the COMPARISON pronoun "that" (appearing in the second part of a parallel comparison)p

• The relative pronoun "that", used to begin a modifier, can be attached equally well to a singular or plural noun. E.g., both of the following noun+modifier constructs are fine:
equipment that must be turned on and off
switches that can be flipped by hand
Note that these are NOT comparison structures (they have NO parallelism in them—each one is just one noun + one modifier), and that the relative pronoun "that" is actually attached to a noun.

• The comparison pronoun "that", used in the second half of a parallel comparison structure, is SINGULAR ONLY. It has to stand for a singular noun—possibly with the addition of SOME, BUT NOT ALL, modifiers/context (see below)—that appears in the left-hand (earlier) part of the comparison.
This type of pronoun CANNOT stand for a plural noun. That job is done by "those" instead.

You should think of these two versions of "that" as TWO DIFFERENT, UNRELATED WORDS—because that's exactly what they are. (They just coincidentally happen to be spelled alike.)

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Updated on: 02 Sep 2022, 10:27

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Anshul1223333 wrote:

(E) visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off and underestimate it when

'it' is fine.

Nope. "It" is wrong here.

There's a really nice, clean division of labor here between the 'standard' (not expressly for comparisons) pronouns "it"/"they" and the comparison-specific pronouns "that"/"those".

Specifically:

• "IT"/"THEY" stands for a noun WITH ALL attached modifiers/descriptors/context from its original appearance.

• "THAT"/"THOSE" stands for a noun with NONE or SOME, but NOT ALL, attached modifiers/descriptors/context from its original appearance.

Here are some paired examples to help you understand:

The definition of gross domestic product (GDP), perversely, places a value on domestic labor outsourced to maids or nannies but not when it is performed by members of the household.
—> INCORRECT
"It" would have to stand for the entire underlined phrase above, consisting of "domestic labor" plus the attached modifier "outsourced to maids or nannies".
That's nonsense, because the resulting sentence contradicts itself—talking about domestic labor that's 'outsourced' to non-household members yet somehow still performed by household members.

The definition of gross domestic product (GDP), perversely, places a value on domestic labor outsourced to maids or nannies but not on that performed by members of the household.
—> CORRECT
To stand for "domestic labor" WITHOUT the attached descriptive modifier "outsourced to maids or nannies", we need the comparison pronoun "THAT"—which exists expressly to do this exact job!

The definition of gross domestic product (GDP), perversely, places a value on domestic labor when it is outsourced to maids or nannies but not when it is performed by members of the household.
—> CORRECT
"Domestic labor" does not have any additional modifiers attached to it. So, "it" is just "domestic labor".

The definition of gross domestic product (GDP), perversely, places a value on domestic labor when it is outsourced to maids or nannies but not when that is performed by members of the household.
—> INCORRECT
The comparison pronoun "that" can ONLY be used if some description is LEFT OFF the noun.

Note that these two types of pronouns have roles that are mutually exclusive. If "it" works, then "that" is wrong. If "that" works, then "it" is wrong. The same is true for "they/them" and "those" respectively.

Originally posted by RonTargetTestPrep on 02 Sep 2022, 01:19.
Last edited by RonTargetTestPrep on 02 Sep 2022, 10:27, edited 1 time in total.

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02 Sep 2022, 01:19

GMAT Sentence Correction (EA only) Questions

Lacking information about energy use, people tend to overestimate the