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Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert

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Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Sep 2015, 07:13
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Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and only gradually evolved into the blues.

A. Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with

B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with

C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as

D. Like other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson’s music arose from an oral tradition beginning with

E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers , the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as

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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 10 Oct 2015, 01:02
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amatya wrote:
Hi ,

I was confused in this question especially in option E because of the use of "began as" isn't it a wrong idiom.

began with would be better

Please help me with this


Usage of began as is not wrong idiomatic usage. It is correct..
began as...........indicates the first form of transformation of an action or object.
began as (Of a person) hold a specified role before holding any other:

for example
Northern Arizona school shooting began as fight between students.
(This means that the problem between students began as fight and extended up to shooting each other.)

What are some examples of words or phrases which began as sporting terminology and have evolved to more widespread use?
(There are many terms or phrases which started or termed as terminology to define sports and then evolved to other daily usage.
for instance: Throw in the towel started as a way of terminology in boxing.

(of boxers or their seconds) throw a towel (or sponge) into the ring as a token of defeat.

"Cafaro was told by his trainer that he was going to throw the towel in if he did not start throwing punches"

but now it is used in general to abandon a struggle; admit defeat.

"there are times when the difficulties appear too great and we just throw in the towel"


MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
  • he began as a drummer.
  • Russ began as a DJ playing soul in clubs like the Sandpiper, in Fallowfield, and touring the country.
  • Well, fate had decided for him that he provide cheers to people for he had begun as a villain in his early days.
  • Like Warhol, he began as a commercial artist and his art has its roots in advertising.

began with is also correct for different purpose meaning started with.

for example
Bay Bridge troubles began with design.
The above sentence means that The troubles of Bay Bridge started with its design.

Few more examples for better understanding
  • The meal began with a scrumptious salad enjoyed by all.
  • Bedtime began with their ritual of sitting on the window seat in each other's arms, watching their farm in the growing darkness.
  • It began with a glance as we passed each other the first time, a smile the next two or three laps, and then a pretend rest stop.
  • Lisa began with a rope border on the top.
  • Range after range of mountains began with a mixture of sharp green that gradually faded until the last range was wrapped in the haze of distance.

In current sentence
The music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that
    began as a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and
    only gradually evolved into the blues.

There is an amount of parallelism here. The music arose from tradition that began as X and evolved as Y.

began and evolved are parallel and are in past tense.

So beginning with/as in A,C and D are incorrect here
tradition began as sth but not with mixture and then evolved so even B is wrong here.
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Originally posted by Nevernevergiveup on 09 Oct 2015, 12:21.
Last edited by Nevernevergiveup on 10 Oct 2015, 01:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Sep 2015, 07:57
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Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and only gradually evolved into the blues.

A. Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with Singers not || to music of RJ

B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with music of blue singers not || to RJ

C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as Instead of 'as with' it should be 'Like'

D. Like other early Mississippi Delta music that arose from oral tradition beginning with complete meaning change

E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers , the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as correct ||elism used
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 09 Oct 2015, 12:25
1
A. Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with
B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with
C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as
as with is not correct here.
D. Like other early Mississippi Delta music that arose from oral tradition beginning with.............Removed Robert and comparison resulting in meaning change.
E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers , the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as
comparison straightly eliminates all the answer choices except E.

The music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that
    began as a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and
    only gradually evolved into the blues.
There is an amount of parallelism here. The music arose from tradition that began as X and evolved as Y.
began and evolved are parallel and are in past tense.
So beginning with/as in A,C and D are incorrect here
tradition began as sth but not with mixture and then evolved so even B is wrong here.
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Originally posted by Nevernevergiveup on 30 Sep 2015, 09:26.
Last edited by Nevernevergiveup on 09 Oct 2015, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Sep 2015, 11:58
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IMO E...
Its correctly compares music with music....
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2015, 07:56
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Hi ,

I was confused in this question especially in option E because of the use of "began as" isn't it a wrong idiom.

began with would be better

Please help me with this
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2015, 12:27
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is option D missing some parts(while writing) or same as it is...Option E correctly compares the music
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2016, 13:46
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souvik101990 wrote:
Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and only gradually evolved into the blues.

A. Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with

B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with

C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as

D. Like other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson’s music arose from an oral tradition beginning with

E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers , the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as


Hi Egmat,

Can you please explain why is option C incorrect. I don't think that the usage of as with a prepositional phrase to show comparison is incorrect. Is it because it changes the meaning of the sentence? It says RJ made music that arose from a tradition however, the parent sentence says the music was the result of an oral tradition... Please clarify
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2016, 12:59
1
nishatfarhat87 wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:
Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religions music and only gradually evolved into the blues.

A. Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition beginning with

B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with

C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as

D. Like other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson’s music arose from an oral tradition beginning with

E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers , the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as


Hi Egmat,

Can you please explain why is option C incorrect. I don't think that the usage of as with a prepositional phrase to show comparison is incorrect. Is it because it changes the meaning of the sentence? It says RJ made music that arose from a tradition however, the parent sentence says the music was the result of an oral tradition... Please clarify



Hi Nishat,

Thanks for posting your doubt here. :-)

The change of meaning that you are talking about in Choice C does not exist. The original sentence as well as Choice C says that the music from an oral tradition beginning. I guess you got confused because the structure of the two choices are different.

In Choice C As + prepositional phrase does not work in the context of this sentence because the main clause contains an action that needs to be compared with another action after as. This action is missing in Choice C.

Hope this helps. :-)
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 04 May 2016, 13:18
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Is choice D ("Like other ... singers, Robert Johnson’s music ...") comparing "singers" to "RJ" or to "music"? I originally dismissed D because I thought it was comparing "singers" to "music", was my logic correct?
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 05 May 2016, 09:08
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ChrisKnapp1231 wrote:
Is choice D ("Like other ... singers, Robert Johnson’s music ...") comparing "singers" to "RJ" or to "music"? I originally dismissed D because I thought it was comparing "singers" to "music", was my logic correct?


Absolutely right way to eliminate wrong answers.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2016, 16:30
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I was on the fence between B and E, I chose B. Could someone help clarify my doubt?

I guess I got focused on began as and decided a comparison cannot be made with as and a noun, has to be as and a clause. But then before that Like is used for proper comparison in E.

Why is B wrong? As you mentioned 'began with' could also be correct?

Thank you
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2016, 22:28
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g3lo18 wrote:
Why is B wrong?

B says:

Similar to that (music) of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with..

So, B is comparing "music" with a "person" (Robert Johnson). This is not an apples to apples comparison.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2016, 04:18
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Hi experts,

I can understand that comparison "as" should be followed by a clause.
but
I am still confused that comparison "as" will be followed by a prep phrase,
here is an correct sentence from MANHATTAN SC ,6th, P 184
AS in the previous case, the judge took an early break.

what's the difference btw example and option C?
please clarify why "as with" is incorrect in C.

thanks a lot
have a nice day
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Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 12 Aug 2018, 20:56
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egmat wrote:

In Choice C As + prepositional phrase does not work in the context of this sentence because the main clause contains an action that needs to be compared with another action after as. This action is missing in Choice C.


Hi nishatfarhat87,

This is not a correct analysis of Choice C, in my opinion. The Official GMAC answer explanation is also lacking, but I will do my best to explain it more clearly.

The main clause does not contain an action that needs to be compared with another action after "as", because the two-part comparison has already been made (Robert Johnson vs. other Mississippi Delta blues singers). Furthermore, it's not the verbs that are being compared: it's the nouns (R.J. versus other blues singers).

Rather, the GMAC does not want us to use "as with" when comparing two nouns or noun phrases, as it says in the official answer explanation, even though this is normal English usage. Instead it prefers the one-word term "like," which is more concise.

In everyday English, "As with other GMAT tutors, I am asked about this question frequently" is a perfectly valid sentence (although GMAC disagrees with me in its answer explanation). However, "Like other GMAT tutors, I am asked about this question frequently" would be even better.

There is a second part of this answer choice that is not technically incorrect, but displays somewhat poor usage. It's the part that says "Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religious music and only gradually evolved into the blues."

In the GMAC's official explanation, it incorrectly refers to "beginning" as the present participle, but that's not necessarily true. It's only the present participle if there is an actual present-tense helper verb in front of it, such as "am helping" or "are helping." However, it can be used in a variety of other tenses as well: "were helping" (past) or "had been helping (past perfect)," or "will be helping" (future). As you can see, the gerund (-ing) can be used to describe past, future, or present. Here are some additional examples:

Past: I opened every present, beginning with the largest one.
Future: Next year I will take better care of myself, starting with my diet.

So, why is "beginning" a poor choice? Because despite the fact that it's not incorrect, it does still imply the present tense in some ways, and thus sounds odd when preceding a past tense verb ("evolved"). This error can also be seen in Choice D. It's better to use the past tense in both instances, which is what we see in the correct answer choice, E.

Technically, the best way to precede a past tense verb is with a past perfect verb. For example, "I had walked outside when it began to rain" is slightly better than "I walked outside when it began to rain," because in the second version the order of events is less clear, which obscures meaning.

Thus, here is my perfect version of the sentence:

"Like the music of other Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson's music arose from an oral tradition that had begun with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religious music and only gradually evolved into the blues."
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Originally posted by mcelroytutoring on 25 Jan 2017, 18:56.
Last edited by mcelroytutoring on 12 Aug 2018, 20:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Feb 2017, 15:20
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Good point Mcelroy. I also felt that E should have the past perfect form present. However, there is no sequencing as such present and thus perhaps why past perfect isn't part of the sentence.

mcelroytutoring wrote:
egmat wrote:

In Choice C As + prepositional phrase does not work in the context of this sentence because the main clause contains an action that needs to be compared with another action after as. This action is missing in Choice C.



Hi nishatfarhat87,

This is not a correct analysis of Choice C, in my opinion. The Official GMAC answer explanation is also lacking, but I will do my best to explain it more clearly.

The main clause does not contain an action that needs to be compared with another action after "as", because the two-part comparison has already been made (Robert Johnson vs. other Mississippi Delta blues singers). Furthermore, it's not the verbs that are being compared: it's the nouns (R.J. versus other blues singers).

Rather, the GMAC does not want us to use "as with" when comparing two nouns or noun phrases, as it says in the official answer explanation, even though this is normal English usage. Instead it prefers the one-word term "like," which is more concise.

In everyday English, "As with other GMAT tutors, I am asked about this question frequently" is a perfectly valid sentence (although GMAC disagrees with me in its answer explanation). However, "Like other GMAT tutors, I am asked about this question frequently" would be even better.

There is a second part of this answer choice that is not technically incorrect, but displays somewhat poor usage. It's the part that says "Robert Johnson made music that arose from an oral tradition beginning as a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religious music and only gradually evolved into the blues."

In the GMAC's official explanation, it incorrectly refers to "beginning" as the present participle, but that's not necessarily true. It's only the present participle if there is an actual present-tense helper verb in front of it, such as "am helping" or "are helping." However, it can be used in a variety of other tenses as well: "were helping" (past) or "had been helping (past perfect)," or "will be helping" (future). As you can see, the gerund (-ing) can be used to describe past, future, or present. Here are some additional examples:

Past: I opened every present, beginning with the largest one.
Future: Next year I will take better care of myself, starting with my diet.

So, why is "beginning" a poor choice? Because despite the fact that it's not incorrect, it does still imply the present tense in some ways, and thus sounds odd when preceding a past tense verb ("evolved"). This error can also be seen in Choice D. It's better to use the past tense in both instances, which is what we see in the correct answer choice, E.

Technically, the best way to precede a past tense verb is with a past perfect verb. For example, "I had walked outside when it began to rain" is slightly better than "I walked outside when it began to rain," because in the second version the order of events is less clear, which obscures meaning.

Thus, here is my perfect version of the sentence:

"Like the music of other Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson's music arose from an oral tradition that had begun with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religious music and only gradually evolved into the blues."
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Feb 2017, 15:29
Quick doubt for this sentence:

Like usually compares nouns with other nouns.. In the correct answer:

Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as

Like compares noun + prep phrase with another Noun + prep phrase..

Is that acceptable?


EducationAisle wrote:
g3lo18 wrote:
Why is B wrong?

B says:

Similar to that (music) of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from oral tradition that began with..

So, B is comparing "music" with a "person" (Robert Johnson). This is not an apples to apples comparison.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Feb 2017, 21:27
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cuhmoon wrote:
Quick doubt for this sentence:

Like usually compares nouns with other nouns.. In the correct answer:

Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral tradition that began as

Like compares noun + prep phrase with another Noun + prep phrase..

Is that acceptable?


Yes, that's acceptable because you are still comparing nouns (music to music).
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2017, 06:31
Similar to other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an oral
tradition beginning with a mixture of chants, fiddle tunes, and religious music and only gradually evolved
into the blues.

A. Similar to other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose from an
oral tradition beginning with
Sentence illogically compares other Singers with “the music of RJ”

B. Similar to that of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose
from an oral tradition that began with
This version compares “music of other singers” with “RJ”

C. As with other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson made music that arose from an
oral tradition beginning as
“As” cannot be used to compare nouns…
Music from the oral tradition begin “with” something …and NOT begin “as” something

D. Like other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, Robert Johnson’s music arose from an oral tradition
beginning with
Again illogical comparison similar to that in option A

E. Like the music of other early Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert Johnson arose
from an oral tradition that began as
Perfect comparison between “music of other singers” and “music of RJ”
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2017, 07:59
Imo E
The comparison is correct music of other singers is compared with music of Robert Johnson.
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Re: Similar to other Mississippi Delta blues singers, the music of Robert &nbs [#permalink] 06 Jul 2017, 07:59

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