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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are

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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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New post 16 May 2009, 08:34
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IMO C

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell -->incorrect modifier it. They is better to match profits
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen -->...had increased ... after it had fallen... is surely ungrammatical. Besides, same error as A
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling -->best. The first three months is an indefinitely time and likely to last until now, so present perfect is best.
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling -->with + Noun phrase + after + present participle + ... is ungrammatical. Besides, it seems to modify for the results, not for profits, meaning The results have a 5% increase (???) after the result fell over the last 2 years --> awkward meaning
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen --> same errors as D
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 11:11
I know C is right, but I have a question isn't D a bunch of prepositional phrases that are actually modifying the main verb in the previous clause "are evident" therefore they are grammatically right, furthermore preposition "after" clearly indicates the sequence of the two events so why do we need to use tense to show the time sequence between the two :?: :?: :?:
Note: in mgmat sc it says if the sequence is clear then we do not have to use complicated tense.
Note: I dont think "increase" here is a verb because "five percent" is acting as an adjective or prearticle that is modifying "increase" so without the "five percent" the phrase would be "an increase" therefore "increase" is acting as the object of the prepositional phrase therefore it's not a verb.

Can someone please clarify.
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Last edited by elevinty on 24 Apr 2010, 12:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 12:35
elevinty wrote:
I know C is right, but I have a question isn't D a bunch of prepositional phrases that are actually modifying the main verb in the previous clause "are evident" therefore they are grammatically right, furthermore preposition "after" clearly indicates the sequence of the two events so why do we need to use tense to show the time sequence between the two :?: :?: :?:
Note: in mgmat sc it says if the sequence is clear then we do not have to use complicated tense.
Note: I dont think "increase" here is a verb because "five percent" is acting as an adjective or prearticle that is modifying "increase" so without the "five percent" the phrase would be "an increase" therefore "increase" is acting as the object of the prepositional phrase therefore it's not a verb.

Can someone please clarify.



uummm.. Not sure how to answer ur question but theres another reason why 'D' is wrong. First in second clause two events are happening 5 pc increase in first three months nd 'fall' in previous 2 years and the main clause is talking in present.. 'are evident'. When two things are said in past, its imp to distinguish which occurred earlier.

Also when you see the whole statemnt together the first is the main clause and second is subordinate clause.dependent on first. using 'with' as second clause wud make it a stand alone independent clause, you can flip and test.. this makes 'D' and 'E' out.
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 13:13
thank you nilesh376 for your initiative, but here is what I think:
"uummm.. Not sure how to answer ur question but theres another reason why 'D' is wrong. First in second clause two events are happening 5 pc increase in first three months nd 'fall' in previous 2 years and the main clause is talking in present.. 'are evident'. When two things are said in past, its imp to distinguish which occurred earlier."

that's what I said but there is preposition "after" in the second phrase(I dont think the second statement which you refer to it as a second clause is infact a clause because there is no a clear subject and there are only partial predicate therefore the whole phrase which is long is acting as a adverb that is modifying the main verb in the main clause) back to what I was saying the word "after" indicates the time sequence so again why do we need to use tense.

<using 'with' as second clause wud make it a stand alone independent clause, you can flip and test.. this makes 'D' and 'E' out.>

am not sure about this, "with" is actually a preposition therefore it is not used to introduce a n independent clause, also "with" is sometimes used to introduce an absolute phrase but there is no way that it can introduce an independent clause because it actually would not have a complete meaning.

further clarification please.
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2010, 00:56
elevinty wrote:
thank you nilesh376 for your initiative, but here is what I think:
"uummm.. Not sure how to answer ur question but theres another reason why 'D' is wrong. First in second clause two events are happening 5 pc increase in first three months nd 'fall' in previous 2 years and the main clause is talking in present.. 'are evident'. When two things are said in past, its imp to distinguish which occurred earlier."

that's what I said but there is preposition "after" in the second phrase(I dont think the second statement which you refer to it as a second clause is infact a clause because there is no a clear subject and there are only partial predicate therefore the whole phrase which is long is acting as a adverb that is modifying the main verb in the main clause) back to what I was saying the word "after" indicates the time sequence so again why do we need to use tense.

<using 'with' as second clause wud make it a stand alone independent clause, you can flip and test.. this makes 'D' and 'E' out.>

am not sure about this, "with" is actually a preposition therefore it is not used to introduce a n independent clause, also "with" is sometimes used to introduce an absolute phrase but there is no way that it can introduce an independent clause because it actually would not have a complete meaning.

further clarification please.



sorry my mistake i shud say the second phrase..

see this way.. if you use 'with' preposition in 'D' . whom its referring to? sure it is 'its profits' just because its close to 'profits' and not to 'the result' the main subject or in fact 'the company'. does the preposition 'with' helps to link two phrases?. the second phrase is talking about increase and decrease of a figure which is profit and rely on a word which wud clearly refer to profit, introducing relative clause 'which' refers to profits and joins the two clause and phrase.

Using after or before preposition not always convey the same meaning. the verb should have a proper tense when used in the statement.

do below have same meaning??
we reached the station after, the train left already

we reached the station after, the train had left already.

or

I wrote the letter before he arrived

I had written the letter before he arrived

hope it makes sense
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink]

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There is a rule in modification that if a modifier is inessential, then it has to be set off with a comma, in which case the clause should complete the intended meaning in full without considering the modifier. In D and E, the prepositional modifiers are separated by a comma, but the intended meaning of the passage can not be completed without considering the modifiers. Therefore, the use of comma before the preposition ‘with’ is grammatically incorrect. Hence D and E can be dropped.
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Re: verb tenses & "with" [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2011, 22:14
OG says the underlined part need to clarify the sequence by using verb tenses.
Here are the explanation for the choices:

A The verb tenses do not distinguish between the times at which these indicators occurred; the singular it does not agree with the plural profits.
B The verb tenses do not distinguish between the times when the indicators occurred; the singular it does not agree with the plural profits.
C Correct. The verb tenses clearly indicate the sequence of events.
D It is not clear what connection is being described by with; the prepositional phrase makes the sentence wordy and unclear.
E It is not clear what connection is being described by with; the prepositional phrase makes the sentence wordy and unclear.

IF the sequence is the first priority, I think E best resolves this problem "having fallen..." clearly indicates that the action falling happened before the action increase.
Why is E wrong?
1) because it starts with "with+ing" pattern?
I've noticed that OG seems to avoid this "with" pattern. But could anyone tell me why is it wrong? if it's a noun modifier, then it makes perfect sense to modify "profits".
2) because it contains "having"? GMAT seems to avoid this form too.

Please explain~~~Thanks
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Re: The results of the companys cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 12 Mar 2012, 00:23
Hi,

C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling

(E) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after having fallen

there is no particular rule about with or which that I can remember.
however here which preceded with comma correctly identifies profits

the problem with "with" is what does it refers to? profits/results/cost cutting measures?
also having is often not preferred in GMAt
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Re: The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2013, 10:49
ratinarace wrote:
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profi ts, which increased 5 percent during the fi rst 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.

(A) which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after they fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after they had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after having fallen


"which" is correctly used and better than "with".
So D E out.

(A) which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after they fell
The verbs do not give a good idea of the sequence of the events. The simple past ("increased" and "fell") is used to describe "short" actions, in this case we are talking of what the profits did "during the first 3 months" and "over the last two years".
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after they had fallen.
"they had fallen over the last two years" is correct, this is an action that occurred over a long period of time in the past and is now over.
However, again, parallelism doesn't give us a good idea of the sequence of the events. And moreover "which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year" is not logically correct; I would change it maybe to "which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year", to because this action is recent and maybe is still "happening".
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling.
"have increased" is the correct verb, as I explained above. "after falling" clearly explains the sequence.

IMO C
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Re: The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2013, 22:31
official answer indeed is C.

...Thank you all for your inputs

@aditya, @sdasI actually have manipulated the original question, removing the pronoun error from option A and B..
My purpose of doing so is to understand the difference between option A and option C purely on the basis of the verbs.....coming back to the doubt that I have

in option A, doesn't the use of "after" clarifies the sequencing? or is it that we need past perfect here?? @aditya...yes I feel we need to clearly identify the sequencing as there are two events increased and fell both happening in the past
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 26 Mar 2013, 01:41
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.


Second clause is briefing about profits so "which" is appropriate.
Thus D and E are out.

Now subject given is plural so we cant use "it" for the same. Thus eliminate A and B

So C
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2014, 09:03
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen



What does "it" refer to, in A and B? The profits? That's plural... So A/B gone.

C) makes sense

D) "with a" doesn't make sense, the rest does but this is enough to eliminate D, since we already have C

E) makes the same mistake as D, so we go with C.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 11 Feb 2014, 03:37
FuzzyBuzzard wrote:
Jump up...

After reviewing this topic and also other topics about the same question, I didn't find an answer to my question:
Why is it OK to use present participant ("falling")?
I have expected it to be "had fallen", since it happened 2 years ago and after it the profits got better ("increased), or in other words:
1st action (Past Perfect) ---> 2nd action (Past Simple) ---> PRESENT.

Thank you.

EDIT: :wall people just answer the original SC question, without even looking at the latest posts and what was asked in them!


I was also wondering the same thing and I came to this conclusion:

Verbs ending with '-ing' are flexible in that they can serve as modifiers and can assume the tense of the main verb of the clause.

To rephrase it: 'Profits, after falling the last two years, have increased.'

Because 'falling' modifies 'Profits' -- which 'have increased' -- 'falling' also assumes a past tense.

Makes sense?
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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akhil911 wrote:
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen


My question is why is D or E not correct and C correct - is it because of the use of with in choices D and E or do they contain any additional error.
The only difference between C and D is the usage of with and which.
Can someone please guide on the usage of these words.


Dear Akhil,
Thank you for your query. :)
You are correct. Structurally speaking, the difference between C and D is the difference between their respective uses of “which” and “with”. However, logically speaking, choice C is any day a lot clearer in conveying the intended meaning of the author than either choice D or E is. Let’s see why:

In choice D or E, it is not clear exactly how the prepositional phrase starting with “with” relates back to the sentence. Now, the whole phrase starting with “with” is a prepositional phrase, which can modify either a noun or a verb. Accordingly, the two possible things that could be modified with this modifier are (ref: underlined sections) :

a. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits…
or
b. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits

Now, the context of the sentence dictates that the “with” phrase modify “profits” as, logically speaking, the profits have increased after falling for two years. So let’s test whether this meaning comes across clearly with the “with” modifiers :

(D) The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.
(E) The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen over the last two years.

Now, do you think that the “with” modifiers in the above two sentences clearly refer back to the profits?! The answer is NO! This is because these phrases could be deemed as modifying the action in the previous clause. In other words, it could be taken to suggest that:

The results are evident because of a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.


The above meaning makes logical sense. However, is this sense compatible with the intended meaning of the author? The answer is NO! Also, besides the fact that choices D and E form rather awkward sentences, in the “with” modifying phrases, we are just told about a five percent increase, but we are not told exactly what entity has increased during the first three months of this year. The same goes for the “falling” bit. We do not know exactly what fell over the last two years.

Accordingly, it makes more sense to use “which” here. This is because “which” is typically used to convey extra-information about the noun preceding it. In the correct choice, “which” unambiguously refers back to “profits”. A simple example of the same usage is explained below:

The green shoes, which I tried on, are designed by the famous shoe designer Romano Ray.


In the above sentence, the noun “shoes” is already described as “green” in color. Therefore, the “which” clause- which I tried on- gives us extra information about the shoes.

To solidify your understanding of the topic and to learn the nuances of the same, please visit our in-depth article on the subject: noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html

Please also revise the concept of “Types of modifier” if you are an e-GMATer.

Hope the above discussion helps! :)

Regards,

Neeti.
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New post 13 May 2014, 21:32
Couple of question:
1. I have question regarding the 'tense' used in A & B. Please find below choice by eliminating the pronoun error. please let me know if they are correct.

a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling


2. Question regarding 'with'
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
In both cases 'with' is incorrect.
Is 'with' always incorrect to start a modifier ? Or can 'with' used to start modifier is any case ? Is there any example that shows correct usage of 'with' ?

I will offer kudos to every satisfactory answer :lol:
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2014, 03:20
russ9 wrote:
Hi -- Can someone please explain why the verbs are incorrect in A? Why is it incorrect that both are in past tense? Doesn't it make complete sense that the profits increased AFTER they fell?

Description says that having two tenses in the past is incorrect?

Also, if C said -- "profits have increased after they fell" -- would that still be correct?








Hi russ9,
Let's discuss your questions one by one:


Can someone please explain why the verbs are incorrect in A? Why is it incorrect that both are in past tense? Doesn't it make complete sense that the profits increased AFTER they fell?



I think it’s incorrect to say that both the verbs are incorrect in option A. Let’s discuss the sentence in detail to find out more:

SENTENCE

• The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits,
o which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.


MEANING

• So, this sentence states a fact from the present that certain results are evident in the company’s profits.
• The profits have increased five percent during the first three months of this year.
o This happened after the profits fell over the last two years.


Now, there are two things about the increase in the profits that are worth discussing here:
1. The increase happened over a period of 3 months.
2. The effect of this increase in the profits is still present. (The results…. are evident in its profits)

Since the increase is a continuous event that has happened over a duration of time it can’t be represented using the simple past tense. Either we need to use the present perfect tense of the past perfect tense.
Also, since the effect of these increases is visible in the present time, it can’t be represented using the past perfect tense.

So, the correct tense to be used here is the present perfect tense.


Note that, it makes perfect sense to say that the profits increased after they fell, but in the context of this sentence this is incorrect, as explained above.




Description says that having two tenses in the past is incorrect?

I didn’t exactly get your doubt here, but there can be instances where both the verbs of the sentence can be in the past tense. However, that is not the case here.
Also, when there are two or more than two events that happened at different points of time in the past then the recommended way is to do the sequencing of the events.

I had finished my homework when Ross came to meet me. (Homework was finished before Ross came)


The chief guest had left before the party started. (Chief guest left then the party started)

In both the above sentences, one of the events happened before the other.



Also, if C said -- "profits have increased after they fell" -- would that still be correct?

Yes, since the falling of the profits is an action that happened in the past, it’s correct to describe this action using the simple past tense.





Hope this helps!
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2014, 03:56
umeshpatil wrote:
Couple of question:
1. I have question regarding the 'tense' used in A & B. Please find below choice by eliminating the pronoun error. please let me know if they are correct.

a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling


2. Question regarding 'with'
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
In both cases 'with' is incorrect.
Is 'with' always incorrect to start a modifier ? Or can 'with' used to start modifier is any case ? Is there any example that shows correct usage of 'with' ?

I will offer kudos to every satisfactory answer :lol:





Hi umeshpatil,


I have already answered your first question in my reply to russ9’s post. You can find it on the same page, right next to your post:


Regarding question number 2, I will say that a modifier can be started with ‘with’. Let’s take a look at a couple of official examples:

OFFICIAL EXAMPLE I

• Diabetes, together with its serious complications, ranks as the nation’s third leading cause of death, surpassed only by heart disease and cancer.

In this sentence, the modifier doesn't exactly start with 'with', but still it serves the purpose. If a modifier can start with 'together with', it can also start with 'with'. Right?

OFFICIAL EXAMPLE II

• The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.





Hope this helps! :)
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2014, 03:41
I chose the correct answer (C) solely based on the use of "V-ing" after "after". Since two verbs (increase and fall) clarify the same subject "profits" --> if "after" is used, it should be followed by "V-ing" form of the verb denoting the prior action (which is "fall" in this sentence).

E.g. After discussing all other issues with Lana, I have changed my mind.

However, I'm not sure if I can rely on this reason to pick up the correct answer in other similar situation. Any suggestion?
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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2014, 08:26
Hi E-gmat,

Content taken from the latest post of e-gmat on this thread.

The results are evident because of a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.

The above meaning makes logical sense. However, is this sense compatible with the intended meaning of the author? The answer is NO! Also, besides the fact that choices D and E form rather awkward sentences, in the “with” modifying phrases, we are just told about a five percent increase, but we are not told exactly what entity has increased during the first three months of this year. The same goes for the “falling” bit. We do not know exactly what fell over the last two years.


My questions:

How the above makes logical sense.

The results are evident because of a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.

What has increased by 5% and what had fallen previously , we don't know from the above sentence then how can it be logical?

Plz suggest !
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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are   [#permalink] 28 Sep 2014, 08:26

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