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While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90

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While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 900–400 b.c., waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attest to the fact that the Mesoamerican ballgame was well established by the mid-thirteenth century b.c.


(A) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attest

(B) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests

(C) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and ceramics painted with representations of ballplayers found at San Lorenzo attests

(D) the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests

(E) the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and of representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics at San Lorenzo attest


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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jun 2017, 05:06
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dabhishek87 wrote:
Between A and E, I chose E.
Can someone please explain why E is wrong? Is it just because of concision?
I did not fully understood that in E, two phrases are not grammatically parallel as mentioned by @pusphitkc




Hello dabhishek87,


I would be glad to help you with your query. :)

Let me bring in Choice E here: the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and of representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics at San Lorenzo attest

Let's first take a look at the parallel list per Choice E: the finding

    of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and
    of representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics at San Lorenzo

Alright, so now the subject of the main clause is the singular noun the finding that has plural verb attest. So we definitely have the subject-verb number agreement error in this choice.

IMHO, the list is grammatical.


Hope this helps. :-)
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Jun 2017, 12:59
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The sentence is correct as is.
The two items of the list, waterlogged latex balls.... and representations of ballplayers..... Attest(Plural verb)

In Option B,C and D, the singular verb 'attests' makes the answer choices incorrect.

The other option E, which uses plural verb has an imperfect list(items in the list are not grammatically parallel) and has awkward formation.
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jun 2017, 19:25
Between A and E, I chose E.
Can someone please explain why E is wrong? Is it just because of concision?
I did not fully understood that in E, two phrases are not grammatically parallel as mentioned by @pusphitkc
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jun 2017, 07:32
Eliminating option D took a while. Besides D being wordier than A, is there any thing else in D which renders it incorrect?
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jun 2017, 17:02
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Hm, they found waterlogged latex balls in Mesoamerica from 900-400 b.c.?!? Wow, the 2018 OG is more interesting than I expected. (My copy of it is looking at me right now. I've barely had time to open it. :( )

TheMechanic wrote:
Eliminating option D took a while. Besides D being wordier than A, is there any thing else in D which renders it incorrect?

I think we could also argue that (D) doesn't really convey the meaning of the sentence as clearly as (A). In each answer choice, what is it that "attests to the fact that the Mesoamerican ballgame was well established..."? In (A), it's the waterlogged balls themselves and the representations of the ballplayers that give us information about the ballgame -- and that makes a lot of sense. In (D), it's "the finding" (of the balls) and "the painting" (of the representations) that tells us about the history of the ballgame -- and that makes much less sense to me.

I'm not 100% sure that (D) would be absolutely wrong in isolation, but it conveys the meaning much less clearly than (A).

I hope this helps!
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2017, 00:59
GMATNinja wrote:
Hm, they found waterlogged latex balls in Mesoamerica from 900-400 b.c.?!? Wow, the 2018 OG is more interesting than I expected. (My copy of it is looking at me right now. I've barely had time to open it. :( )

TheMechanic wrote:
Eliminating option D took a while. Besides D being wordier than A, is there any thing else in D which renders it incorrect?

I think we could also argue that (D) doesn't really convey the meaning of the sentence as clearly as (A). In each answer choice, what is it that "attests to the fact that the Mesoamerican ballgame was well established..."? In (A), it's the waterlogged balls themselves and the representations of the ballplayers that give us information about the ballgame -- and that makes a lot of sense. In (D), it's "the finding" (of the balls) and "the painting" (of the representations) that tells us about the history of the ballgame -- and that makes much less sense to me.

I'm not 100% sure that (D) would be absolutely wrong in isolation, but it conveys the meaning much less clearly than (A).

I hope this helps!


Hi GMATNinja,
My query is regarding option D.
Does not attest means : to provide evidence of .. ?
As per my understanding, findings make more sense than waterlogged balls.
Can you please elaborate what I missed?
WR,
Arpit.
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2017, 00:52
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While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 900–400 b.c., waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attest to the fact that the Mesoamerican ballgame was well established by the mid-thirteenth century b.c.

(A) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attest
(B) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests
(C) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and ceramics painted with representations of ballplayers found at San Lorenzo attests
(D) the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests
(E) the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and of representations of ballplayers painted on ceramics at San Lorenzo attest

B, C, D -> out as "attests" does not work with plural subjects "waterlogged latex.." + "ceramics painted..."
E -> eliminated because "attest" does not work with subject "finding"
A -> therefore is CORRECT

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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2017, 19:13
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adkikani wrote:
Hi GMATNinja,
My query is regarding option D.
Does not attest means : to provide evidence of .. ?
As per my understanding, findings make more sense than waterlogged balls.
Can you please elaborate what I missed?
WR,
Arpit.


I'd still argue that the "balls... and representations of players" are much better evidence for "the fact that the Mesoamerican ballgame was well established" than "the finding of balls..." and "the painting of representations..." It's the balls and representations that provide the actual evidence -- not the fact that they were found and painted.

But you know what? I also made (D) much harder than it needed to be! As Sahil01 pointed out, "the finding... and the painting... attests" is totally wrong in (D). So I'd argue that my rant about meaning is still correct... but it's an unnecessarily painful and inefficient way to eliminate (D). Oops.

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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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Gmat is a test for managers (or future managers), in which you have to use logic and leverage your time at the best and in the most efficient way.

Conclusion: why you must spend millions of years to eviscerate a question, in which using the split singular/plural you boil down the answer choices between A and E, and as a consequence E is really bad, and from this A is the best. All this process in 25 seconds and move one the next question and level of difficulty...

This is the meaning of the test indeed. Keep in mind.

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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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carcass wrote:
Gmat is a test for managers (or future managers), in which you have to use logic and leverage your time at the best and in the most efficient way.

Conclusion: why you must spend millions of years to eviscerate a question, in which using the split singular/plural you boil down the answer choices between A and E, and as a consequence E is really bad, and from this A is the best. All this process in 25 seconds and move one the next question and level of difficulty...

This is the meaning of the test indeed. Keep in mind.

GMATNinja I am ready being stoned to death for what I said ...... :roll: :roll:


Lol, I'm staying out of this! ;)
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jul 2017, 09:39
Hello GMATNinja and @e-gmat

If the verb in both these options was 'attest', then which option would be correct?

(B) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests
(C) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and ceramics painted with representations of ballplayers found at San Lorenzo attests
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jul 2017, 05:51
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Hello GMATNinja and @e-gmat

If the verb in both these options was 'attest', then which option would be correct?

(B) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests
(C) waterlogged latex balls found at El Manati and ceramics painted with representations of ballplayers found at San Lorenzo attests


Both would be correct - the meaning implied in the first case would be that the "painting" attests and in the second would be that the "ceramics" attest. Both these meanings make sense.

Note: The hypothetical subjunctive of verb "to be" is "were", NOT "was". Thus your sentence should be: If the verb in both these options was WERE 'attest'....
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2017, 10:20
carcass wrote:
Gmat is a test for managers (or future managers), in which you have to use logic and leverage your time at the best and in the most efficient way.

Conclusion: why you must spend millions of years to eviscerate a question, in which using the split singular/plural you boil down the answer choices between A and E, and as a consequence E is really bad, and from this A is the best. All this process in 25 seconds and move one the next question and level of difficulty...

This is the meaning of the test indeed. Keep in mind.

GMATNinja I am ready being stoned to death for what I said ...... :roll: :roll:


Hi,

Could you please explain what is wrong with E?
findings can attest if the balls can since both are inanimate..."E" is pefectly grammatical.

Since its OG ques I am definitely missing something. Kindly throw some light on what I am mis-interpreting.

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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2017, 10:37
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gmatexam439 wrote:
carcass wrote:
Gmat is a test for managers (or future managers), in which you have to use logic and leverage your time at the best and in the most efficient way.

Conclusion: why you must spend millions of years to eviscerate a question, in which using the split singular/plural you boil down the answer choices between A and E, and as a consequence E is really bad, and from this A is the best. All this process in 25 seconds and move one the next question and level of difficulty...

This is the meaning of the test indeed. Keep in mind.

GMATNinja I am ready being stoned to death for what I said ...... :roll: :roll:


Hi,

Could you please explain what is wrong with E?
findings can attest if the balls can since both are inanimate..."E" is pefectly grammatical.

Since its OG ques I am definitely missing something. Kindly throw some light on what I am mis-interpreting.

Regards


The finding - Singular Subject
Attest - Plural Verb
So we have a Subject Verb disagreement in the sentence.
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Sep 2017, 06:30
Hi @gmatninja, Experts,

I believe that options B and D can also be discarded as they change the meaning.

They imply that a single painting was found. Moreover, it is unclear if the painting was "on ceramics" or the painting was of "representation of ballplayers on ceramics".

Please confirm if this understanding is correct
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Sep 2017, 12:54
kunal1608 wrote:
Hi GMATNinja, Experts,

I believe that options B and D can also be discarded as they change the meaning.

They imply that a single painting was found. Moreover, it is unclear if the painting was "on ceramics" or the painting was of "representation of ballplayers on ceramics".

Please confirm if this understanding is correct




Hello kunal1608,

I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)

Yes, the meaning issue that you have identified in Choice B and D is correct.

Well done there. Keep up the good job. :thumbup:


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2017, 19:51
Hi,
Am not clear on why D is wrong ?
(D) the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests

the finding is singular so does the verb "attests"
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2017, 06:56
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D. the finding of waterlogged latex balls at El Manati and the painting of representations of ballplayers on ceramics found at San Lorenzo attests

D may not be excluded just on a simplistic view that it is not concise. There is more stylistic as well as unclear grammar about it than what meets the eye.
One could imply a few things about D as below

1. " The finding of the ball and the painting" "--- When we refer to some nouns generically, it is a good style to use plurals. Else, we may suffer inadvertently from referencing any particular event of a phenomenon because no one draws judgments from singular occurrences. They are deduced from several evidences. Maybe ---the finding or the painting -- is not as appropriate as its plural.
2."The finding of" as singular subject at the beginning is redundant with the participle found at the rear part.
3. Structurally, the finding of --- waterlogged latex balls and the painting of representations found --- is not parallel. One may note that they are two different phenomena at two different locations and cannot be grouped in a single observation. In contrast, one can see how neatly the parallelism has been espoused in A.
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Re: While most of the earliest known ball courts in Mesoamerica date to 90  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Dec 2017, 04:49
@Experts - Please advise!.

To me Option A was a loud winner as it stands alone with S-V agreement.

But thinking on "Meaning" issue - bogged me down. and I forced myself to find issues in A

as I was confused about the verb "attest" which stands for " serve as Evidence"

How can the object itself attest of some view about a past event?
It has to be the finding of that object can attest the view.


Can you please confirm on the above logic, I want to take this application for other question as well.

I understand D is wrong for other reasons

The painting of representation of ballplayers = redundant as painting is a form of representation ?

we must use either " Painting of ballplayers or " representation of ballplayers"

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