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655-705 Level|   Meaning/Logical Predication|   Modifiers|   Parallelism|                     
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 09 Apr 2018, 12:33
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cicitang
for all answers, I can only find the mistakes using "try to do", are there any other points I have missed? Please explain.
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Hello cicitang,

I am not sure if your doubt still persists. Here is the explanation nonetheless. :-)

Error in Choice A:

i. The parallel elements in this choice is:

    With the patience of its customers and
    with its network strained to the breaking point

The choice fails to convey that the patience of the customers also reached the breaking point.


Errors in Choice B:

i. The parallel elements in this choice is: With the patience of

    its customers and
    with its network

The word patience associates with the network too.

ii. Use of simple present tense verb try is incorrect because the sentence is actually set in the past context as evident by the usage of the simple past tense verb announced.


Error in Choice D:

i. The parallel elements in this choice are:

    With its network and
    with the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point

The choice fails to convey that its network also reached the breaking point.


Hope this helps. :-).
Thanks.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 03 Nov 2018, 04:37
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AbdurRakib
With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve the congestion that has led to at least four class-action lawsuits and thousands of complaints from frustrated customers.


(A) the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve

(B) the patience of its customers and its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives that try to relieve

(C) its network and the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve

(D) its network and with the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of initiatives to try relieving

(E) its network and its customers’ patience strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try relieving

Show more
1. In option A, With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point -- The modifier 'strained to the breaking point" applies to just "with its network" or both "With the patience of its customers" and "with its network" ?

2. Since we have parallel marker "AND" in the prepositional phrase that starts with "WITH", so what is the level of parallelism we want in the 2 parts separated by the conjunction "AND" ? i.e. If the first part (preceding the parallel marker) has a prepositional phrase followed by a modifier, does the second part(following the parallel marker) SHOULD also have modifier ?
Or is it okay if both the parts that follow the preposition are nouns ?

- Natalie studied ballet as a child, studies pilates now, and will study cooking someday.
** Verbs in parallel can belong to different tenses.
** But the parallel parts MUST make sense with the stem that precedes those parts.

- The angry politician, frustrated by the opposition's parliamentary tactics and screaming about the other parties unconstitutional behavior, is both a hypocrite and a narcissist. -- here both frustrated and screaming are modifiers that modify the politician, but we CANNOT replace screaming by "who screamed" because 'frustrated" will not be parallel to "who screamed".

The angry politician, who was frustrated by the opposition's parliamentary tactics and who screamed about the other parties unconstitutional behavior, is both a hypocrite and a narcissist.-- But this is correct because we have 2 who phrases in parallel ?

3. In option B, With the patience of its customers and its network strained to the breaking point --- here the With prepositional phrase "With the patience" will apply to both its customers and its network?
But since With the patience of its network DOES NOT make sense, we can read as With its network strained to the breaking point?


AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , VeritasPrepBrian, GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber ,other experts - please enlighten
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 25 Feb 2019, 12:06
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GMATNinja

Hi experts,

Regarding choice A in this question, in the OG it noted that "Trying could modify either "the company" or "initiatives", and it is not clear which one is intended"

As far as I know, if V-ing modifier is placed right after a noun or noun phrase without a comma, it should modify the immediate preceding noun or noun phrase. Why does GMAT explain that the V-ing can modify "the company" here?

Thank you
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 25 Feb 2019, 15:23
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AbdurRakib
With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve the congestion that has led to at least four class-action lawsuits and thousands of complaints from frustrated customers.


(A) the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve

(B) the patience of its customers and its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives that try to relieve

(C) its network and the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve

(D) its network and with the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of initiatives to try relieving

(E) its network and its customers’ patience strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try relieving

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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 23 Mar 2019, 05:48
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GMATNinja

Hi experts,

Regarding choice A in this question, in the OG it noted that "Trying could modify either "the company" or "initiatives", and it is not clear which one is intended"

As far as I know, if V-ing modifier is placed right after a noun or noun phrase without a comma, it should modify the immediate preceding noun or noun phrase. Why does GMAT explain that the V-ing can modify "the company" here?

Thank you
Show more
Great question! This is an excellent illustration of why the OG explanations have to be taken with a grain of salt. I agree with you - because "trying to relieve" comes after "new initiatives", (A) seems to communicate that the initiatives are attempting to relieve congestion, when it seems more logical to write that the company is trying to do so. In other words, the problem with the modifier isn't really that it's ambiguous -- the problem is that it creates an illogical meaning.

However, there's a more concrete problem with (A). Take another look:

    "With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced..."

If I write, "With X and with Y," I'm referring to two independent phenomena. Now it sounds as though the online company made the announcement with 1) the patience of its customers, and it also made the announcement with 2) the network strained to the breaking point. So the network got together with the patience of its customers and made an announcement? That doesn't make any sense.

Instead, we want to communicate that the patience of the customers and the network are both strained to the breaking point. Because that opening modifier fails to do this, it's illogical, and we can toss (A) without worrying about the placement of "trying to relieve."

I hope that helps!
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 25 Mar 2019, 07:08
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1. In option A, With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point -- The modifier 'strained to the breaking point" applies to just "with its network" or both "With the patience of its customers" and "with its network" ?
Show more
First, let's notice that, read as if it were correctly written, that list uses "with" in two different ways.

"with the patience of its customers" would ordinarily mean something along the lines of "having the patience of its customers to make use of."

"with its network strained to the breaking point" means something along the lines of "having as an attribute its network being strained to the breaking point."

Anyway, regardless of whether the sentence makes sense, by using "with" twice, the list clearly separates the two items, because we have "with x and with y." The second "with" separates "x" from what follows the second "with." So, we don't have "with x and y strained to the breaking point." We have "with x and with y strained to the breaking point."

So, "strained to the breaking point" modifies only "network" in this version.

Using a preposition twice is actually a linguistic device that often has to be used to make clear how elements of a list are to be separated. In this case, the result of using "with" twice is an illogical separation of the elements.

Quote:
2. Since we have parallel marker "AND" in the prepositional phrase that starts with "WITH", so what is the level of parallelism we want in the 2 parts separated by the conjunction "AND" ? i.e. If the first part (preceding the parallel marker) has a prepositional phrase followed by a modifier, does the second part(following the parallel marker) SHOULD also have modifier ?
Or is it okay if both the parts that follow the preposition are nouns ?
Show more

'"Parallel" does NOT mean "exactly the same." Actually, it mostly means just "logical." So, of course, one element of a list could be composed of just a noun, while another is composed of a noun and a modifier.

Quote:
- Natalie studied ballet as a child, studies pilates now, and will study cooking someday.
** Verbs in parallel can belong to different tenses.
** But the parallel parts MUST make sense with the stem that precedes those parts.

- The angry politician, frustrated by the opposition's parliamentary tactics and screaming about the other parties unconstitutional behavior, is both a hypocrite and a narcissist. -- here both frustrated and screaming are modifiers that modify the politician, but we CANNOT replace screaming by "who screamed" because 'frustrated" will not be parallel to "who screamed".

The angry politician, who was frustrated by the opposition's parliamentary tactics and who screamed about the other parties unconstitutional behavior, is both a hypocrite and a narcissist.-- But this is correct because we have 2 who phrases in parallel ?
Show more

That sentence works.

Quote:
3. In option B, With the patience of its customers and its network strained to the breaking point --- here the With prepositional phrase "With the patience" will apply to both its customers and its network?
But since With the patience of its network DOES NOT make sense, we can read as With its network strained to the breaking point?
Show more

Interesting question, and the answer is that you can indeed use logic to determine how to read a sentence. In this case the sentence works, because, since a network would not have patience, there is no meaning ambiguity. If the second element of the list were one that could have patience, the sentence might have two possible meanings, and therefore, might not work.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 04 Apr 2019, 19:01
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Hi MartyTargetTestPrep,

Thanks for the excellent post.
Was just wondering, is the following an actual split based on which we can eliminate?

C: "..initiatives to try to relieve.."
E: "..initiatives to try relieving.."

Basically, is TRY + <-ing> format wrong?

Regards
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 04 Apr 2019, 19:42
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TheRzS
Hi MartyTargetTestPrep,

Thanks for the excellent post.
Was just wondering, is the following an actual split based on which we can eliminate?

C: "..initiatives to try to relieve.."
E: "..initiatives to try relieving.."

Basically, is TRY + <-ing> format wrong?

Regards
Show more
Yes, it is, and not because "try relieving" is somehow always wrong.

The issue is that "try relieving" conveys the wrong meaning.

The point of the sentence that company is announcing initiatives that will involve attempts to relieve the congestion. That meaning is effectively conveyed by the expression "try to relieve," which means "attempt to relieve."

The expression "try relieving" means not to attempt to relieve but rather to see how relieving works, goes, or feels, as in, "Let's try relieving congestion, and see whether doing so makes a difference."

Since the idea that the company would announce initiatives to try relieving congestion - in other words, announce initiatives to see how relieving congestion works, goes, or feels - is nonsensical, choices can be eliminated because they use "try relieving."
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 13 May 2019, 19:08
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I think it is unidiomatic to use "announce .... to do", so I did not choose C. In dictionary, announce is used as "announce that" or "announce sth to sb".

Is it because of "try" that we can use "announce ...to try to do"? Or is it okay to generally say "announce...to do sth"?

Thank you.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 13 May 2019, 20:09
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yunbao
I think it is unidiomatic to use "announce .... to do", so I did not choose C. In dictionary, announce is used as "announce that" or "announce sth to sb".

Is it because of "try" that we can use "announce ...to try to do"? Or is it okay to generally say "announce...to do sth"?

Thank you.
Show more
The reason "announced" makes sense without "that" in this case is that they are not announcing that they are going to do something. The are announcing a series of initiatives. So the object of "announced" is not "that X." It's "a series."

Here's an analogous situation.

The economist pointed out that he was talking about interest rates, rather than about the rate of inflation. - uses "pointed out" + "that X"

The economist pointed out three areas of the economy that were showing strength. - uses "pointed out" + direct object ("three areas")

Now back to "announced."

The master of ceremonies announced that the band had arrived. - uses "announced" + "that X"

The master of ceremonies announced the arrival of the band. - uses "announced" + direct object ("the arrival")

So, certain verbs, such as "announced," can be followed by "that" in some situations and not followed by "that" in others.

NOW, here's one other thing to keep in mind. The truth is that "announced" has appeared in at least one official SC question without "that" in a situation in which "announced" would normally be followed by "that."

Why?

Because, SC question writers don't always make the "correct" answers ideal. Sometimes they use barely acceptable but less than ideal structures, often in order to obscure the fact that correct answers are correct. So, sometimes you have to pick the least flawed choice rather than a well written choice.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 05 Jun 2019, 22:09
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In C , why can't we read like this - With its network, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve ... and say that it doesn't make sense.
Why do we include "strained to the breaking point" as a modifier to the network? In A, We didn't attach this modifier to "With the patience of its customers" and said that it doesn't make sense.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 27 Jun 2019, 17:51
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manishcmu
In C , why can't we read like this - With its network, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve ... and say that it doesn't make sense.
Why do we include "strained to the breaking point" as a modifier to the network? In A, We didn't attach this modifier to "With the patience of its customers" and said that it doesn't make sense.
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Hi manishcmu,

It's best not to look at this as "why can't we...", as that is not how language (generally) works. Instead, we should ask "what is this likely to be interpreted as (by other people)?"

Let's take an example:

1. With his phone and his internet connection not working, he couldn't contact anyone.
vs.
2. With his phone and with his internet connection not working, he couldn't contact anyone.

The first one is more likely to be understood correctly by the listener:
With (his phone and his internet connection) not working, he couldn't contact anyone.

The second one seems to say:
(With his phone) and (with his internet connection not working), he couldn't contact anyone.

We should go for the one that we think other people will be able to understand more easily.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 15 Jul 2019, 09:02
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duybachhpvn
GMATNinja

Hi experts,

Regarding choice A in this question, in the OG it noted that "Trying could modify either "the company" or "initiatives", and it is not clear which one is intended"

As far as I know, if V-ing modifier is placed right after a noun or noun phrase without a comma, it should modify the immediate preceding noun or noun phrase. Why does GMAT explain that the V-ing can modify "the company" here?

Thank you
Great question! This is an excellent illustration of why the OG explanations have to be taken with a grain of salt. I agree with you - because "trying to relieve" comes after "new initiatives", (A) seems to communicate that the initiatives are attempting to relieve congestion, when it seems more logical to write that the company is trying to do so. In other words, the problem with the modifier isn't really that it's ambiguous -- the problem is that it creates an illogical meaning.

However, there's a more concrete problem with (A). Take another look:

    "With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced..."

If I write, "With X and with Y," I'm referring to two independent phenomena. Now it sounds as though the online company made the announcement with 1) the patience of its customers, and it also made the announcement with 2) the network strained to the breaking point. So the network got together with the patience of its customers and made an announcement? That doesn't make any sense.

Instead, we want to communicate that the patience of the customers and the network are both strained to the breaking point. Because that opening modifier fails to do this, it's illogical, and we can toss (A) without worrying about the placement of "trying to relieve."

I hope that helps!
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Hi GMATNinja and other experts, I agree with all of your questions.

Just one question though - isn't the word "New" in "new initiatives" redundant?
I'm always under impression that the word "initiatives" means new development, or new plan.
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 16 Jul 2019, 20:04
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Hi GMATNinja and other experts, I agree with all of your questions.

Just one question though - isn't the word "New" in "new initiatives" redundant?
I'm always under impression that the word "initiatives" means new development, or new plan.
Show more
That's a good point, although I don't think the GMAT is likely to test something like this.

More generally, when we identify multiple entry points in a question, it is important that we prioritize the more reliable splits. That's especially important when we come across questions in which the only thing we can say for the correct option is that it is better than the others. :)
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 27 Jul 2019, 13:37
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aidyn
Hi GMATNinja and other experts, I agree with all of your questions.

Just one question though - isn't the word "New" in "new initiatives" redundant?
I'm always under impression that the word "initiatives" means new development, or new plan.
That's a good point, although I don't think the GMAT is likely to test something like this.

More generally, when we identify multiple entry points in a question, it is important that we prioritize the more reliable splits. That's especially important when we come across questions in which the only thing we can say for the correct option is that it is better than the others. :)
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I agree with AjiteshArun -- there are definitely more important issues in the question, so it's better to focus on those.

Also, you can certainly refer to old initiatives from the past. For example: "In 1990, the company proposed several initiatives aimed at reducing inefficiency."

In this question, the use of "new" clarifies that these are fresh/recent initiatives, as opposed to, for example, initiatives that were introduced years ago but never acted upon.

I hope this helps!
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 21 Feb 2020, 06:12
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VeritasKarishma egmat AjiteshArun MentorTutoring

Quote:
With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve the congestion that has led to at least four class-action lawsuits and thousands of complaints from frustrated customers.
Show more

Quote:
(C) its network and the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve
Show more

Am I correct in understanding that verb-ed modifier: strained is modifying correctly network and customers?
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 21 Feb 2020, 09:03
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adkikani
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Quote:
With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives trying to relieve the congestion that has led to at least four class-action lawsuits and thousands of complaints from frustrated customers.

Quote:
(C) its network and the patience of its customers strained to the breaking point, the on-line service company announced a series of new initiatives to try to relieve

Am I correct in understanding that verb-ed modifier: strained is modifying correctly network and customers?
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Yes, adkikani, in the context of the sentence, strained is modifying both its network and (notice the conjunction in the option at hand) the patience of its customers. It would not make sense to say either of the following independently of strained:

1) With its network, the on-line service company announced...
2) With the patience of its customers, the on-line service company announced...

Note that it would make perfect sense to describe either issue independently by adding strained:

1) With its network strained, the on-line service company announced...
2) With the patience of its customers strained, the on-line service company announced...

Linking the two key nouns together with and and adding a modifier that applies equally to both is fine, both in terms of the grammar and the intended meaning of the sentence. I hope that helps. If you have further questions, feel free to ask.

- Andrew
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mdsaddamforgmat
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 17 Apr 2020, 03:01
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a small doubt...

isn't the use of "new" in front of "initiative" is redundant?
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 17 Apr 2020, 06:28
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mdsaddamforgmat
a small doubt...

isn't the use of "new" in front of "initiative" is redundant?
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Hello, mdsaddamforgmat. I know what you mean. This usage is kind of like saying first discovered. (Was X rediscovered at some later point?) Although new initiative might not strictly be necessary, neither is it unacceptable, just as first discovered is commonly used, even in official GMAT™ questions (such as this old CR question), and (D), the only choice that drops new, has other issues that are more problematic. You always have to go by what is on the screen, and if one element of an answer choice is okay but not optimal while another answer choice has more glaring issues, then go with the former.

Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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With the patience of its customers and with its network strained to 17 Apr 2020, 23:33
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mdsaddamforgmat
a small doubt...

isn't the use of "new" in front of "initiative" is redundant?
Hello, mdsaddamforgmat. I know what you mean. This usage is kind of like saying first discovered. (Was X rediscovered at some later point?) Although new initiative might not strictly be necessary, neither is it unacceptable, just as first discovered is commonly used, even in official GMAT™ questions (such as this old CR question), and (D), the only choice that drops new, has other issues that are more problematic. You always have to go by what is on the screen, and if one element of an answer choice is okay but not optimal while another answer choice has more glaring issues, then go with the former.

Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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thanks

I got another SC with the same confusion
https://gmatclub.com/forum/elizabeth-ba ... 36795.html

although this was much easier to eliminate based on the parallelism issue, wanted to know whether the use of 'expert' in front of 'authority' is also redundant here?
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