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malavika1
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 09 Mar 2017, 09:48
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Thanks Ajitesh. As requested, it would help if you can cite an example where GMAT is fine with this usage. Will help me clarify this ambiguity.
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 11 Mar 2017, 02:36
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malavika1
Thanks Ajitesh. As requested, it would help if you can cite an example where GMAT is fine with this usage. Will help me clarify this ambiguity.
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I'm not saying that the GMAT is fine with it. I'm just saying that we don't have reliable evidence to the contrary, that the GMAT is definitely not fine with it (for example, the company that made this particular question does not make questions for the GMAT anymore).
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 13 Mar 2017, 03:18
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AjiteshArun
I'm not saying that the GMAT is fine with it. I'm just saying that we don't have reliable evidence to the contrary, that the GMAT is definitely not fine with it (for example, the company that made this particular question does not make questions for the GMAT anymore).
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If the standard/quality/appropriateness of GMAT questions varies with the company that "currently" makes questions for GMAT, this is really unfortunate.

Also, this is brilliant information for me Sir. So, GMAT actually "outsources" the question preparation? Wow. Which was this company and which company now makes questions for GMAT?
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 20 Mar 2017, 03:37
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malavika1
If the standard/quality/appropriateness of GMAT questions varies with the company that "currently" makes questions for GMAT, this is really unfortunate.

Also, this is brilliant information for me Sir. So, GMAT actually "outsources" the question preparation? Wow. Which was this company and which company now makes questions for GMAT?
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ETS used to make GMAT questions. Now GMAT questions are made by ACT. I actually asked some senior people at the GMAC, and they said that they stand by all GMAT questions (even the ETS questions). But in some cases we can clearly see explanations in the OG changing. I don't think that's a bad thing. Language evolves, and so too must GMAT questions.
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 21 Mar 2017, 10:56
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Interesting. What is ACT?

I tried searching on Google and could not find any reference.
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 21 Mar 2017, 10:58
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AjiteshArun
I'm just saying that we don't have reliable evidence to the contrary, that the GMAT is definitely not fine with it
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Hello Sir, in terms of GMAT, what exactly would be considered a reliable evidence?
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 21 Mar 2017, 15:07
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in Virginia, stunned his family, friends, and neighbors by filing a deed of emancipa¬tion, setting free the more than 500 slaves who were legally considered his property.
(A) setting free the more than 500 slaves who were legally considered
(B) setting free more than the 500 slaves legally considered as
(C) and set free more than 500 slaves, who were legally considered as
(D) and set free more than the 500 slaves who were legally considered
(E) and he set free the more than 500 slaves who were legally considered as


'Considered as' is unidiomatic, so we eliminate B,C and E.

In D the usage of article 'The' before the slaves means that he had more than 500 slaves and only 500 were leagally his property while the rest were illeagal.,it is change in meaning so elimiate D

A is the correct choice.
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 30 May 2017, 03:25
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AjiteshArun
malavika1
Ajitesh, I have an idiom list which mentions that "consider as" is not correct.

Can you cite an example where GMAT is fine with this usage? Will help me clarify this ambiguity.
The thinking behind that particular entry in your idiom list is flawed. Consider as is standard and is very much in use, even if it is (perhaps) not as common, or as concise, as consider X Y (where X and Y are both nouns). However, it remains a stretch to say that the as will always be incorrect.

Whether this affects you or not is debatable, but what is not debatable is that the GMAT has exploited such incorrect classifications in the past by making questions in which the correct option uses a supposedly unidiomatic structure.
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Hi AjiteshArun, Utkarsh from Jamboree Classes. I have a doubt, Is it correct to use 'the' before 'more than' as used in option A?
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 30 May 2017, 07:29
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utkarshthapak
Hi AjiteshArun, Utkarsh from Jamboree Classes. I have a doubt, Is it correct to use 'the' before 'more than' as used in option A?
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Hi Utkarsh, yes it is. Look at it this way:

The people
The 110 people (just specifying the number)
The (>100) people (maybe we don't know the exact number, or that level of precision is unnecessary)
The (more than hundred) people (putting it in words)
The more than hundred people

Here is a similar sentence from a recent NYT article:
Quote:
Employees like Dolan, who work the phones, start at $14 an hour, about a dollar less than the median wage earned by the more than 2.5 million Americans who work as customer-service representatives.
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 12 Sep 2019, 20:21
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please help with this question. what is "comma setting" modifying - i understand that Robert stunned his family by filling deed and as result set free slaves. The "comma setting" verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding clause ie Robert Stunned. Which now means that Robert stunned his family by doing two things 1) filling deed 2) setting free slaves. i thing it cannot by filling deed. please help egmat GMATNinja sayantanc2k abhimahna VeritasKarishma
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 14 Sep 2019, 03:38
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please help with this question. what is "comma setting" modifying - i understand that Robert stunned his family by filling deed and as result set free slaves. The "comma setting" verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding clause ie Robert Stunned. Which now means that Robert stunned his family by doing two things 1) filling deed 2) setting free slaves. i thing it cannot by filling deed. please help egmat GMATNinja sayantanc2k abhimahna VeritasKarishma
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'setting free ... ' is a present participle appearing at the end of the sentence separated by a comma. It is modifying the entire preceding sentence and is showing the impact of the preceding sentence.

He stunned his family by filing the deed - the result of this action was setting free the slaves.

Check out how participles are used: https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2014/1 ... -the-gmat/
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 23 May 2020, 02:08
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I narrowed down to option A and B because of verb'ing modifier. I missed wrong usage of "the" but eliminated A because it was not using "as " . Since "as" is used to depict role or function. here slaves have been considered as his property, depicting role/function of slaves. therefore "as" is needed in the sentence.can anyone tell where i went wrong?
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 23 May 2020, 17:14
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hridaybector
I narrowed down to option A and B because of verb'ing modifier. I missed wrong usage of "the" but eliminated A because it was not using "as " . Since "as" is used to depict role or function. here slaves have been considered as his property, depicting role/function of slaves. therefore "as" is needed in the sentence.can anyone tell where i went wrong?
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Hello, hridaybector. For GMAT™ purposes, it is better to think of considered as as unidiomatic, losing out to considered in this sort of context. If you know to look for the offending as, then you can make quick work of (B). You might find this old Manhattan Prep thread useful, in which a few instructors chime in on the topic. To be clear, I am not saying that considered as is always incorrect in English, but when it comes to GMAT™ SC questions, I have always seen the stripped-down version win out instead.

Happy reading.

- Andrew
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 13 Jul 2020, 13:30
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AjiteshArun
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Let, Robert had 510 slaves. Without 'the' it means any number of slaves between 501 and 510 inclusive and with 'the' it means all 510 slaves.
To get the meaning difference, don't start by setting 510 as the total number, because it is that number that changes in this question.

He solved the more than 100 questions in the book.
This means that there are more than a hundred questions in the book (say 110) and he solved all of them.

He solved more than the 100 questions in the book.
This means that there are a hundred questions in the book (not 110), and he solved more questions than just those in the book (say from a test or another book).
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AjiteshArun

I have gone through your explanation w.r.t 'significance of 'the'.
Please find below whether my understanding of option A&B is correct for usage of 'the'

Option A: setting free the more than 500 slaves- means there were more than 500 slaves who were legally considered his property.He set free some SPECIFIC number which is more than 500 but did not mention precise(how many).

Option B : setting free more than the 500 slaves legally considered as- means he set free more than 500 slaves ( all 500 those who were considered legal his property PLUS those slaves who might not be considered his slaves.

I am doubtful about the understanding of option B.

Thanks

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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 13 Jul 2020, 22:07
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gmatassassin88
AjiteshArun

I have gone through your explanation w.r.t 'significance of 'the'.
Please find below whether my understanding of option A&B is correct for usage of 'the'

Option A: setting free the more than 500 slaves- means there were more than 500 slaves who were legally considered his property.He set free some SPECIFIC number which is more than 500 but did not mention precise(how many).

Option B : setting free more than the 500 slaves legally considered as- means he set free more than 500 slaves ( all 500 those who were considered legal his property PLUS those slaves who might not be considered his slaves.

I am doubtful about the understanding of option B.

Thanks
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Hi gmatassassin88,

That is correct. Let's start by leaving the number out:
1. the slaves who were legally considered his property ← All the slaves who were legally considered his property

Now, let's put a number in:
2. the 500 slaves who were legally considered his property ← All the slaves who were considered his property, and it specifies the exact number (500)

Okay, but what if the exact number is not known?
3. the (more than 500) slaves who were legally considered his property ← Again, all the slaves who were legally considered his property, and it includes the number, but with reduced precision ("> 500" instead of "500")

This is usually done when the precise number is not known, unnecessary, or awkward when used in the sentence. Consider the following sentences:
4. The one billion three hundred eighty million four hundred eighteen thousand nine hundred eighty-nine people of India will soon need to apply for an Aadhaar card.
5. The more than one billion people of India will soon need to apply for an Aadhaar card.

Even if we somehow managed to get the number in (4) right, it would have changed by the time we finished writing the sentence. :)
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 13 Jul 2020, 22:51
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AjiteshArun
gmatassassin88
AjiteshArun

I have gone through your explanation w.r.t 'significance of 'the'.
Please find below whether my understanding of option A&B is correct for usage of 'the'

Option A: setting free the more than 500 slaves- means there were more than 500 slaves who were legally considered his property.He set free some SPECIFIC number which is more than 500 but did not mention precise(how many).

Option B : setting free more than the 500 slaves legally considered as- means he set free more than 500 slaves ( all 500 those who were considered legal his property PLUS those slaves who might not be considered his slaves.

I am doubtful about the understanding of option B.

Thanks
Hi gmatassassin88,

That is correct. Let's start by leaving the number out:
1. the slaves who were legally considered his property ← All the slaves who were legally considered his property

Now, let's put a number in:
2. the 500 slaves who were legally considered his property ← All the slaves who were considered his property, and it specifies the exact number (500)

Okay, but what if the exact number is not known?
3. the (more than 500) slaves who were legally considered his property ← Again, all the slaves who were legally considered his property, and it includes the number, but with reduced precision ("> 500" instead of "500")

This is usually done when the precise number is not known, unnecessary, or awkward when used in the sentence. Consider the following sentences:
4. The one billion three hundred eighty million four hundred eighteen thousand nine hundred eighty-nine people of India will soon need to apply for an Aadhaar card.
5. The more than one billion people of India will soon need to apply for an Aadhaar card.

Even if we somehow managed to get the number in (4) right, it would have changed by the time we finished writing the sentence. :)
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AjiteshArun

Thanks for your explanation for option A ' The more than..', explanation matches to my above reasoning I believe.

However my doubts pertains to the mention phrase.(option B)

'more than the 500 slaves who considered legal property's Please share your explanation on this one.

i have shared my reasoning in the earlier post.Please share your's.

Posted from my mobile device
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 14 Jul 2020, 03:28
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gmatassassin88
AjiteshArun

Thanks for your explanation for option A ' The more than..', explanation matches to my above reasoning I believe.

However my doubts pertains to the mention phrase.(option B)

'more than the 500 slaves who considered legal property's Please share your explanation on this one.

i have shared my reasoning in the earlier post.Please share your's.
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Your analysis is correct. We can read that portion of the sentence as:

more than (the 500 slaves who were legally considered his property)
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 30 Jun 2021, 07:03
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Let’s take you have more than 500 flowers and you want to sell all of them. Then we say that you want to sell the more than 500 flowers.
In the second case, you have more than 600 or 700 flowers, but you want to sell only just more than 500 flowers, say 550 or so , retaining the others. In this case, we will say that you want to sell more than the 500 flowers.
In the given topic the in A before more stresses that he set free all his 500 and odd slaves, while D implies that he retained some. This is not the intended meaning. If he wanted emancipate slaves, why would ha have retained a few alone?
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Shouldn't there be a comma before who in A?

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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 30 Jun 2021, 10:34
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In option A, isn't 'who' redundant? If we were to use 'who', should we know place a comma after slaves?
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In 1791 Robert Carter III, one of the wealthiest plantation owners in 30 Jun 2021, 19:14
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gagan0303
Shouldn't there be a comma before who in A?

Gagan
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Hi gagan0303,

We don't want a comma there, because that who is used to specify exactly which slaves the author is referring to.

1. ... setting free the more than 500 slaves who were legally considered his property. ← This is like "He set free the slaves who were considered his property".

2. ... setting free the more than 500 slaves, who were legally considered his property. ← This is like "He set free the slaves".

Because the information introduced by this who is essential, we don't want to use a comma in between this who and the noun that it refers to.
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