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More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20

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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 05 Aug 2016, 10:15
I was more so between A and B. I dont' believe GMAT likes to place two non essential modifiers in the beginning. Anyways, the meaning definitely changes in B and the 'that' refers to water which is illogical
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.
I think sentence wants to convey :

Siberia's Lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent. : Double subject

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.

More than all the North American Great Lakes combined - is refering to Siberia's Lake Baikal => nonsensical meaning
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 17 Nov 2016, 18:48
E is wrong for the reasons Mike explained:wrong comparison

More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal"


This is saying Lake Baikal is "more than" all the other lakes combined. Grammatically, it's not clear. More than what?


A better way to write E would be like this:

More than all the North American Great Lakes lakes combined, the water of Siberia’s Lake Baikal, which comes from more than 300 rivers, makes up 20% of the world's fresh water.

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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 12 Feb 2017, 01:18
mikemcgarry wrote:
janxavier wrote:
Can someone plz tell me why E i wrng ?

Dear janxavier,
I'm happy to respond. In the original ...
More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.
... the phrase "more than all the North American Great Lakes combined" is a comparison to "which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water." Lake Baikal holds 20%, and this more than the Great Lakes hold. Very clear.

Now, look at (E):
More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.
Here, the modifier "More than all the North American Great Lakes combined" appears at the beginning, and modifiers at the beginning of the sentence typically modify the subject, so here it would modify Lake Baikal. This is an illogical comparison. Think about just this comparison.
Siberia's Lake Baikal is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.
More what? We get some sense of what the sentence is trying to say, but it is not said with precision. In fact, Lake Baikal holds more fresh water than the Great Lakes, but that is not clear from this comparison. The comparison is illogical and incorrect.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hello mike,

Although I picked A, as A is the best of them all, but I have a confusion.
I understand modifier more than all the North American Great Lakes combined is used compare the amount of water, but if that is the case then why the sentence isn't written as "More than that/the water of all the North American Great Lakes combined?!
Can you please elaborate?
Thanks...
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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nahid78 wrote:
Hello mike,

Although I picked A, as A is the best of them all, but I have a confusion.
I understand modifier more than all the North American Great Lakes combined is used compare the amount of water, but if that is the case then why the sentence isn't written as "More than that/the water of all the North American Great Lakes combined?!
Can you please elaborate?
Thanks...

Dear nahid78,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

Here, we get into some very subtle logical territory. You are correct in that, normally, for comparisons of features or attributes, we need the demonstrative pronoun "that" or "those."
The books on my desk are more literary than those on Peter's desk.
The tallest mountain in North America is taller than that of Europe.

Of course, we need the demonstrative pronoun because Peter's desk is not identical to the books on his desk, and Europe as a whole is not identical to its tallest mountain.

By contrast, what is a lake? A lake is identical to the water it contains. A lake is water in its very essence and being. In most contexts, it would be redundant to talk about the "water of a lake." When we are talking about lakes, we are talking directly about water. This is one case in which the demonstrative pronoun is 100% unnecessary, only because either "water of the Great Lakes" or "that of the Great Lakes" would be redundant.

The phrase "all the North American Great Lakes combined" is directly and unambiguously a quantity of water. It's not that the lakes have water: no, they are water. Thus, that phrase represents a quantity of water and can be compared logically to any other quantity of water.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 27 Feb 2017, 07:52
Can any one please explain what is the problem with D?
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 27 Feb 2017, 11:30
shalabhg27 wrote:
Can any one please explain what is the problem with D?

Dear shalabhg27,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

Here's version (D):
While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

This is 100% grammatical correct but logically suspect. There is absolutely no grammar problem here. The problem is the strange contrast implied by the word "while." That word is a contrast word, a change-of-direction word, and implies something that might seem contradictory.

Think about the content of the clause: more than 300 rivers drain into it
That is evidence for the fact that there's a lot of water in Lake Baikal.

Then, the main clause tells us that there's a lot of water in Lake Baikal!

There's absolutely no contraction between those ideas: they are completely consistent. Therefore, having the contrast word "while" is completely illogical.

That's the problem with (D), a logical problem, not a grammar problem.

Students frequently have the misconception that the GMAT SC is simply a test of grammar. This a profound underestimation of this question format. The GMAT SC tests grammar, logic, and rhetoric, all of which combine to produce meaning. You always have to be reading the SC sentences at all these levels. The GMAT loves to write incorrect answers that are 100% grammatically correct, to trap all the people who are looking only at grammar and ignoring everything else.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 01:37
jimmyjamesdonkey wrote:
More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent.

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.

Please Pay attention to the following Posting Rules.
1) Always post the question in relevant forum. e.g. This question should be posted in SC sub-forum and should not be in General Verbal Forum.
2) Always underline the relevant part of SC question sentence.
3) Always post the question along with OA and if possible mark the appropriate tags.
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I think it is hard to know why B is wrong. I will try. all of you, pls, join discussion

the girl with red hat is my friend
with red hat, the girl is my friend

the first is right, "with..." phrase works as adjective.
the second is wrong because "with..." phrase works as adverb and shows the method of main clause. it is not logic because the girl is my friend by means of a red hat.

our choice B is similar. so, B is wrong.

takeaway
in the pattern
with+noun+comma+main clause
with phrase works as an adverb and we need to check this adverbial modification is logic or not.

we alway have to know the grammatical role of entities in the sentence before we justify it is logic or not.

am i correct? pls, comment. I am not confident in this point
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 07:14
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your explanation. I guess thats why these questions come in higher difficulty range because here you have to look for not only grammar but also meaning, and there could be more than 1 grammatically correct answers.
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 10:47
victory47 wrote:
I think it is hard to know why B is wrong. I will try. all of you, pls, join discussion

the girl with red hat is my friend
with red hat, the girl is my friend

the first is right, "with..." phrase works as adjective.
the second is wrong because "with..." phrase works as adverb and shows the method of main clause. it is not logic because the girl is my friend by means of a red hat.

our choice B is similar. so, B is wrong.

takeaway
in the pattern
with+noun+comma+main clause
with phrase works as an adverb and we need to check this adverbial modification is logic or not.

we alway have to know the grammatical role of entities in the sentence before we justify it is logic or not.

am i correct? pls, comment. I am not confident in this point

Dear Victory47,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I totally agree with your analysis of both the "girl with the red hat" sentence and choice (B) about Lake Baikal. I think you are 100% correct in those cases.

I would caution you, though---adding the word "always" to almost any grammar rule makes it false. I would say, in the pattern,
"with"[noun], [main clause]
that it is usually the case that the "with" preposition functions as a adverbial phrase, a verb modifier. Admittedly, it is hard to think of a counterexample, but in my experience, the best way to nullify any grammar rule is to make it universal without exception.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 01 Mar 2017, 06:51
Hi,
I know this might sound stupid, but can you please explain how with... phrase preceding main clause acts as an adverb only, why it cannot modify subject or acts as an adjective.
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 01 Mar 2017, 10:16
shalabhg27 wrote:
Hi,
I know this might sound stupid, but can you please explain how with... phrase preceding main clause acts as an adverb only, why it cannot modify subject or acts as an adjective.

Dear shalabhg27,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

You are asking for a explicit logical explanation for something that is very much something that depends on the feel of language. One short answer is: if the "with" prepositional phrase were going to modify the subject as a noun-modifier, why on earth would we separate it from the subject with a comma? When prepositional phrases act as noun-modifiers, often they are not separated from the noun they modify by a comma. This is NOT true of other kinds of noun-modifying phrases. Also, notice that this rule, like almost every rule in grammar, is a "usually" rule. There are very few "always" rules in grammar.

My friend, it is 100% impossible to get to a mastery of GMAT SC by learning some mythical complete set of rules. You have to develop intuition for the English language, a sense of the feel of the language. The only way to do this is to develop a habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 23 May 2017, 04:48
eyunni wrote:
More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent.

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.


From Ron (Manhattan Prep)

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more (water) than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

The entire phrase "more (water) than all the North American Great Lakes combined" is an appositive, a noun phrase used to modify another noun phrase. In this case it modifies the noun phrase "20 percent of the world's fresh water." This is so whether we treat "more" as an noun, or whether you treat "more" as modifying the unstated "water."

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal (, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water(, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined)) .

The blue modifier modifies stuff that's inside the orange modifier, so it falls within the orbit of the orange modifier; it MUST be removed if the orange modifier is removed (because it has nothing left to modify).
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 26 May 2017, 01:54
eyunni wrote:
More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent.

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.


we need to know a basic point to know why E is wrong.

"more than...combined" modify the verb "hold" and works as an adverb. it dose not work as an adjective to modify "20 percent of fress water of the world". this is critical.

for above reason, "more than... combined" must be placed close to the verb modified, "hold". for this reason, E is wrong because the phrase is placed too far from "hold", leading to misunderstanding that the phrase modified the subject and works as an adjective.

this is critical point. the phrase work as adverb, not as adjective.
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2017, 00:34
eyunni wrote:
More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(A) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(B) With 20 percent of the world's fresh water, that is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal has more than 300 rivers that drain into it.

(C) Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, it holds more of the world's fresh water than all that of the North American Great Lakes combined, 20 percent.

(D) While more than 300 rivers drain into it, Siberia's lake Baikal holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, which is more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.

(E) More than all the North American Great Lakes combined, Siberia's Lake Baikal, with more than 300 rivers draining into it, holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water.

=====================
Although many people are confused between A and E, E has "with more than 300 rivers draining into it," is wrong.
B,C and D can be easily eliminated. :!:

Kudos if it helps anyone.
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 29 May 2017, 19:24
babyif19 wrote:
I was debating major time between A and E. However, E has the phrase with more than 300 rivers draining into it....GMAt does not prefer the structure in the form of " with ....+Verbing"

Also Lake B can not be more than all the North American Great lakes combined....It is the water in Lake B.


Hi daagh , Payal,

I see many people agreeing with this post. Is it really true.

I have seen one question which violates this structure as mentioned above.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/sc-revision- ... 12725.html

I was struck between A and E. While E changes intended meaning , A is a bit awkward with the last clause "more than..." .

can someone please throw some light in here.
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Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 [#permalink]

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New post 26 Nov 2017, 07:25
In modiifer More than all the rivers combined, kindly explain about the modifying action here.
Re: More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20   [#permalink] 26 Nov 2017, 07:25

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