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# Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and

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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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03 Aug 2012, 15:51
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Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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03 Aug 2012, 20:22
this is not very vvell framed not a typical gmat question
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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03 Aug 2012, 22:22
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C is the best answer .The entire argument is based on the assumption that the details provided are true and that the father was living at the time and that diagram depicts correct information.When any of this is found not be true ,the argument falls apart .
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2012, 03:26
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(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts - Out of scope - Incorrect
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible - Giving accurate report of Sviatov would not help predict when the text was written - Incorrect
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written - Sviatov's fater died in 1167 and composition of family if assumed true would help pin point the year when the text was written - Correct
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years - Gives a vague idea - Incorrect
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself - Gives a generalised theory about the author of the text. - Irrelevant - Incorrect
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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11 Aug 2012, 06:31
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c can be easily verified by negating the statement . . the negated one will weaken argument, however not required to do this to save time . .
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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13 Aug 2012, 09:59
I marked E , Was confused between C and E. I cant understand what has C got to with the assumption.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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15 Aug 2012, 03:16
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whenever the conclusion is referring to some statistic , data or diagram. We must understand that those figures have been assumed to be correct for author to make conclusion.

Hence C.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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15 Oct 2012, 22:18
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crackHSW wrote:
I marked E , Was confused between C and E. I cant understand what has C got to with the assumption.

Try negating option C and E. The correct answer destroys the conclusion or the premise on which the conclusion is based.

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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author [#permalink]

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29 Oct 2012, 15:40
venmic wrote:
this is not very vvell framed not a typical gmat question

Its a question from OG 13 itself
Check Question num 39 Cr section
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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18 Dec 2012, 04:46
(However events) in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living.

Can someone mark the subjects and verbs and tell me the meaning...seems really odd structure
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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18 Dec 2012, 22:48
Well, the reason I rejected C even though none of the other answers seemed correct either.

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

That would only describe what the diagram composed of that is the correct family members etc etc
We need to find whether the the LIVING/DEAD is classified properly.

Where am I going wrong?
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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19 Dec 2012, 22:17
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betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself

Since there is ongoing confusion regarding this question, let's discuss it.

Sviatovin is a text describing events in the life of Prince Sviatov. We don't know when the text was written. The events described in Sviatovin actually took place in 1165. Hence we can say that the text was written in or after 1165. No assumptions here. The text also has diagram which shows Prince Sviatov's father. His father died in 1167 so the argument is concluding that the text must have been written in or before 1167. What is the assumption? That had his father not been alive at the time the diagram was made, the diagram would not have shown him. That the diagram identifies the family composition as it was at the time the text was written and the diagram was drawn. This is what C says and hence is the answer.

E is certainly not an assumption. When you negate an assumption, the conclusion cannot hold. If we negate E, we get that Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father. This makes our conclusion even stronger (in fact, foolproof). If Sviatov's father wrote it, then Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.
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Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for $199 Veritas Prep Reviews Veritas Prep GMAT Instructor Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 7375 Location: Pune, India Followers: 2288 Kudos [?]: 15115 [1] , given: 224 Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink] ### Show Tags 19 Dec 2012, 22:22 1 This post received KUDOS Expert's post sujit2k7 wrote: (However events) in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Can someone mark the subjects and verbs and tell me the meaning...seems really odd structure The structure is similar to this: In the event of a fire, the fire alarm, which is located in the main hall, will go off. In the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text, his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living Subject - the fire alarm/his father _________________ Karishma Veritas Prep | GMAT Instructor My Blog Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for$199

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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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07 Sep 2013, 12:01
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
betterscore wrote:
Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and exact date of composition are unknown. However, the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living. Thus Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167, assuming that _____________ .

(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts

(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible

(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written

(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years

(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself

Since there is ongoing confusion regarding this question, let's discuss it.

Sviatovin is a text describing events in the life of Prince Sviatov. We don't know when the text was written. The events described in Sviatovin actually took place in 1165. Hence we can say that the text was written in or after 1165. No assumptions here. The text also has diagram which shows Prince Sviatov's father. His father died in 1167 so the argument is concluding that the text must have been written in or before 1167. What is the assumption? That had his father not been alive at the time the diagram was made, the diagram would not have shown him. That the diagram identifies the family composition as it was at the time the text was written and the diagram was drawn. This is what C says and hence is the answer.

E is certainly not an assumption. When you negate an assumption, the conclusion cannot hold. If we negate E, we get that Sviatovin was written by Sviatov's father. This makes our conclusion even stronger (in fact, foolproof). If Sviatov's father wrote it, then Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.

Hi Karishma ,
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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09 Sep 2013, 20:53
targetdec31 wrote:
Hi Karishma ,
I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B
I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly .
Thnx.

You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living."
So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167.
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Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for $199 Veritas Prep Reviews GMAT Club Legend Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Posts: 10363 Followers: 999 Kudos [?]: 225 [0], given: 0 Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink] ### Show Tags 18 Sep 2014, 17:49 Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot! Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos). Want to see all other topics I dig out? Follow me (click follow button on profile). You will receive a summary of all topics I bump in your profile area as well as via email. MBA Blogger Joined: 19 Apr 2014 Posts: 99 Location: India Concentration: Strategy, Technology WE: Analyst (Computer Software) Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 41 [0], given: 52 Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink] ### Show Tags 22 Nov 2014, 04:00 VeritasPrepKarishma wrote: targetdec31 wrote: Hi Karishma , Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions . I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly . Thnx. You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living." So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167. I got confused with the wording "accurately represents the family composition" and rejected C. IMO, family composition is the members of the family, that means if the diagram says that Prince Sviatov's father had 3 brothers but actually there were 5!! In this condition the diagram is wrong i.e. is is not the accurate representation of the composition of the family. Need more clarification for the OA!! _________________ KUDOS please!! If it helped. Warm Regards. Visit My Blog Veritas Prep GMAT Instructor Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 7375 Location: Pune, India Followers: 2288 Kudos [?]: 15115 [1] , given: 224 Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink] ### Show Tags 23 Nov 2014, 22:01 1 This post received KUDOS Expert's post scofield1521 wrote: VeritasPrepKarishma wrote: targetdec31 wrote: Hi Karishma , Sorry for opening this thread and asking following silly questions . I can not understand whether the text was fiction or based on true events . If the text is fictional, I can very well write a story today describing an event happening in 2050 . So is it implied in the question that the text is not fiction ?? Also I can not understand why some one can't write about an event that happened in past . By composition of family I understood family members . So even if family members are not represented correctly , the incorrect composition gives me no idea about when text was written . So I choose option B I know I am wrong but just wanted to understand the argument clearly . Thnx. You don't need to take a call. Whatever the argument gives you has to be taken as true. The argument says "the events in the life of Prince Sviatov that the text describes occurred in 1165, and in the diagram of Sviatov's family that accompanies the text his father, who died in 1167, is identified as still living." So Sviatovin describes some events which occured in 1165. The picture that accompanies identifies his father as still living. So the picture must have been made prior to 1167 if the diagram accurately represents the family composition. Hence Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167. I got confused with the wording "accurately represents the family composition" and rejected C. IMO, family composition is the members of the family, that means if the diagram says that Prince Sviatov's father had 3 brothers but actually there were 5!! In this condition the diagram is wrong i.e. is is not the accurate representation of the composition of the family. Need more clarification for the OA!! In arriving at the conclusion (Sviatovin was written between 1165 and 1167), we have assumed that the picture is accurate. The picture shows his father alive so we say that his father must have been alive when Sviatovin was written. We have assumed that the picture was showing the truth. In case we are told that the picture is not accurate, then can we arrive at the conclusion that Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167. No. Then all we can say is that it was written after 1165 - but when exactly, we wouldn't know. So we have assumed the accuracy of the picture - that the painter wouldn't have lied by painting the father alive even though he wasn't. It doesn't matter whether the painter included everyone because it is hard to say who is part of the family and who isn't - the exact composition of a family is very subjective - nuclear family or joint family or extended etc. Accurate depiction only means that whoever is shown alive at that time was actually alive. _________________ Karishma Veritas Prep | GMAT Instructor My Blog Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for$199

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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2014, 02:51
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

In arriving at the conclusion (Sviatovin was written between 1165 and 1167), we have assumed that the picture is accurate. The picture shows his father alive so we say that his father must have been alive when Sviatovin was written. We have assumed that the picture was showing the truth. In case we are told that the picture is not accurate, then can we arrive at the conclusion that Sviatovin must have been written between 1165 and 1167. No. Then all we can say is that it was written after 1165 - but when exactly, we wouldn't know.
So we have assumed the accuracy of the picture - that the painter wouldn't have lied by painting the father alive even though he wasn't. It doesn't matter whether the painter included everyone because it is hard to say who is part of the family and who isn't - the exact composition of a family is very subjective - nuclear family or joint family or extended etc. Accurate depiction only means that whoever is shown alive at that time was actually alive.

Thanks Karishma, now makes sense.
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and [#permalink]

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28 Nov 2014, 23:47
sidhu09 wrote:
(A) the life of Prince Sviatov is not the subject of any other medieval Moringian texts - Out of scope - Incorrect
(B) the author of Sviatovin intended it to provide as accurate a report about Prince Sviatov's exploits as possible - Giving accurate report of Sviatov would not help predict when the text was written - Incorrect
(C) the diagram accurately represents the composition of Sviatov's family at the time Sviatovin was written - Sviatov's fater died in 1167 and composition of family if assumed true would help pin point the year when the text was written - Correct
(D) Sviatovin is the earliest Moringian text whose composition can be dated to within a few years - Gives a vague idea - Incorrect
(E) Sviatovin was not written by Sviatov's father himself - Gives a generalised theory about the author of the text. - Irrelevant - Incorrect

" Somehow i'm still thinking about the answer choice "B". If author is intended to provide a accurate report then conclusion holds OK. If we negate it, then it means that text as well as drawing is not accurate so can not conclude predict the time of text.

Pleas help!
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Re: Sviatovin is a medieval Moringian text whose author and   [#permalink] 28 Nov 2014, 23:47

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