Stern vs Johnson ($) for Strategy Consulting

Question

I have been admitted to Stern (no $) and Johnson (18K per year as Forte Fellow). My post MBA goal is strategy or digital strategy consulting in NYC. I am having a difficult time choosing and am unsure if the pros of one school outweighs the other. 
Any thoughts will be appreciated!

Stern 
Pros: 
-Consulting placement seems to be better than Johnson (unsure how large the difference is)
-Experiential learning opportunities in NYC 
-Higher ranking than Johnson

Cons:
-Location may result in a less tight-knit community due to many students already living in NYC and have existing social network (though students seem to say that's not the case)
-Cost

Johnson 
Pros:
-Tight-knit community 
-Students seem slightly nicer and more genuine
-Scholarship $ and Forte Fellow designation (but unsure if benefits are substantial)

Cons:
-The ranking is lower than that of Stern 
-Consulting placement may not be as strong as that of Stern

In terms of location, I will find Ithaca to be boring from time to time, but then again, it's two years and I plan is to return to NYC so it might be nice to have a bit of a break.

bb · Answer

Congrats on your admits! This is a tough decision... esp for someone from NYC.

I don't what I would pick. I feel Stern has better MBB placements and you would be in the city close to your network. I would not worry too much about not being a part of a group or Stern network. Perhaps  MBASomeTime  or  ket310  can weigh in, but I feel the school will make you bond pretty well with your classmates.

In terms of the Consulting, rank does matter and more companies will be on campus at Stern. Better chances and more opportunities with some other benefits of being a part of a bigger and more prestigious class. I would pick Johnson if money is tight or you have undergrad debt and you are just not comfortable with the bill or being in the city.

Congrats again!
BB.

MBASomeTime · Answer

I'd go with Stern in your case. I had a similar scholarship differential (100% vs 60%) and have no regrets with my decision.

If I recall correctly, Johnson is a target from McK and BCG, whereas Stern is for all of MBB. 25 are going to MBB out of Johnson and ~40 from Stern, but when adjusted for the amount recruiting for consulting, Stern places around 7% more (that is, 30% vs 37% of the consulting class last time I ran the numbers). It's tough to say if that's due to the program or the class profile itself, but I'd wager that not having one of the MBB's recruiting is a negative indication. I also believe that the numbers are at their all time best at Johnson, and the roaring economy has afforded more opportunities. With a recession likely looming and a subsequent reversion to past recruitment numbers (far fewer going to MBB) I would give Stern the edge here.

Another factor to take into account is that the difference in cost will likely be somewhere in vicinity of 30-40k/yr, depending on your lifestyle habits. If that's a price you can stomach for the improved employment opportunities, I'd take it.

MislieB · Answer

Thank you for your input. Stern does have better recruiting opportunities for strategy consulting than Johnson. 
As an update, Johnson offered me a full ride tuition scholarship/Park Fellow. Would you still go with Stern?

JohnnyBlaze · Answer

Can Stern increase $ offered? I would go to Stern and send them your Johnson scholarship package. There are a ton of templates on how to ask schools for $ online to use.

ket310 · Answer

Hmm. At Stern, the biggest benefit will be that in spring of MBA1, you can potentially do a consulting project. That will definitely help your 2nd year recruiting if you were not successful in your initial MBA1 fall search. In terms of community, it is a little bit true. However, if you want to spend time with people on campus, there will be plenty of them who you can do that with (there will be people who just can't do that for whatever reason, like me lol).

Now, all are these worth full-sticker price against full ride at Johnson? I don't know. I would say it depends on your risk tolerance. However, I normally side with taking money with lower ranked school as long as your prospective employer comes to your campus to recruit, because you have same opportunity to put your face in front of those employers. So, look at Johnson's employment report, and then if you're content with it (and you don't have 180k to throw away), I'd take money. If you end up at the same employer at graduation, you'd be so thankful that you took money not a higher ranked school.

BiotechGuy · Answer

With the Park Fellowship (full-ride), I think Johnson is the clear winner. Not only will it give you a leg up in recruiting against your peers, but graduating with zero debt is an incredible incentive. Unless Stern is willing to offer between (50-75%), I would not think twice about it. Congrats!

bb · Answer

Congrats! In the current uncertainty money wins.... some say that brand matters a lot in tough times and that’s true but I don’t think the difference is that significant.

Interesting enough there was another case in today’s WSJ for rural campuses. (A bit of a stretch I know I know....

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-crisis-f ... yURL_share

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-crisis-f ... yURL_share Posted from my mobile device

FinanceMan · Answer

I agree with bb. Does brand matter? Absolutely. However, getting a fully funded MBA from Johnson is phenomenal and you'll certainly have an opportunity to land a good paying job without the worry of paying back loans.

MBASomeTime · Answer

And to beat a dead horse I agree with the above. I would reach back to Stern to see if you can leverage your Johnson offer, but a 250k+ difference in total cost is pretty difficult to justify.

MislieB · Answer

Thank you for the feedback, everyone! I am going to reach out to Stern, though they said that all scholarships are final in the offer letter.

I have some savings so am planning to take out 160K in loans should I choose Stern. One of my concerns about Cornell is that its alumni network is smaller, and that might have a negative impact during recruiting at school and post-MBA life. Also, based on the current students at both schools that I have spoke to, it seems like I fit slightly better with Stern and the student group is more diverse. However, I am not sure if these are legit concerns or factors in my decision though.

ANALysis · Answer

not a material difference between them, may as well take the money

Regenerate · Answer

Remember, you'll pay back the loans with AFTER TAX money.

Being financially free is worth an extraordinary amount. You can tell your boss to pound sand, quit and do something else if you've got no student loans. If you've got loans, you're (sorta) at their beck and call.

Johnson by a mile.

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JohnnyBlaze · Answer

Cornell, but know what you’re getting yourself into.

This year Cornell’s acceptance rate is likely to be above 50%, so your classmates will be weaker than average. This means you’re going to have to do a lot of your own interview prepping as many of your classmates aren’t going to make it into consulting in this downturn, compared to Johnson’s placement last year.

So, start prepping now to ‘ace the case.’

Regenerate · Answer

There's quite a bit of conjecture here...

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JohnnyBlaze · Answer

Johnson had a 33% acceptance rate for the 2020 entering class, up fro 30% the prev year. This year is going to be very tough w/ corona, esp on the lower T15 programs. The various MBA forums have several recent pots from Johnson applicants lately reporting full / partial rides. Johnson's acceptance rate is going to be much higher than 33% this year, 50% is definitely possible.

Either way, the class at Johnson is going to weaker than past years....and with a recession on us and firms cutting back on hiring (es at the T15 schools), job placement at Johnson for the new incoming class is going to be very challenging.

MBASomeTime · Answer

I think there is a bit more to admit rates than meets the eye. I'll start with the most up to date figures - the acceptance rate last year for Stern and Johnson were 26.1% and 38.3% respectively.

https://poetsandquants.com/2020/01/30/a ... the-u-s/2/

I can see where the argument for the "weaker" class is coming from if you're looking at YoY change -

Stern -
Admit Rate: 23.1% -> 26.1% (+3%)
GMAT: 716 -> 721 (+5)
GPA: 3.44 -> 3.52 (+0.08)

Johnson
Admit Rate: 33.0% -> 38.3% (+5.3%)
GMAT: 699 -> 696 (-3)
GPA: 3.41 -> 3.41 (0)

However, there are two factors that make acceptance rates in general and OP's position preferable -

1. Acceptance rates are only partially indicative of overall class strength. It's far more linear for undergrad, but for MBA programs applicant pools are often "siloed". Just because Tuck had a 34.5% admit rate less year does not mean it is less competitive than ASU, Penn State and USC (all of whom had lower admit rates). There is generally a more talented body applying for those programs, and I'd wager that the long application for Johnson coupled with the applicant pool (primarily T15 schools) drive the acceptance rate up. IE, I'd say that Johnson is without a doubt on the lower end of that program range but still a step above Tepper, McCombs etc.

2. OP has a Park Fellowship. That makes her the crème de la crème of the class. I think the top 10% of a still solid MBA program should be able to find good opportunities - and worst case, graduate debt free. Once again, had the debt load from Stern been lower I would have given my vote there.

JohnJohnJ · Answer

MBASomeTime  or  ket310  
I have been on this website for a few years now and it’s not often that you hear current students or alums talking well or telling OP to maybe consider a school other than their own school. It’s impressive! (If it was a discussion involving Ross or Booth, the entire community would go savage against anybody recommending a school other than Ross or Booth)
Clearly, Stern does consider EQ along with IQ.

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BradyMVP · Answer

The reality is that you’re not going to be on campus in the village come fall, so no need to factor that cola expense in. When you remove that stern really becomes the no brainer. Better MBB ties, stronger alumni network and located in the heart of city. That last point will be especially important come in person Y2. NYC will be a huge advantage in two years as the economy recovers

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MislieB · Answer

Do you think the downturn will have a much larger negative impact on job placement for schools like Johnson than Stern?

Stern vs Johnson ($) for Strategy Consulting

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