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Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Nov 2013, 11:39
avik629 wrote:
akijuneja wrote:
Dear mike
I read that when we compare numbers and numbers decrease we use less.
For eg: the melting point of zinc is less than that of copper.

Please explain.

Posted from my mobile device


When we say "melting point", it is uncountable. Its is like , the "level of water" in a pool. It can be less not fewer.
Thats why, "fewer" is appropriate here because we are counting the number of people.

Dear avik629,
Just to be clear, "melting point" is neither countable nor uncountable --- it is a third category: numbers themselves. If I ask, "what is the melting point of zinc?", the correct answer to that question is a number.

For uncountable nouns, we use "more" and "less".
For countable nouns, we use "more" and "fewer".
For numbers, we use "greater" and "less", or "higher" and "lower", or something along those lines.

It would be 100% wrong to use "fewer" for "melting point". We could use "less" or "lower", as in:
The melting point of zinc is less than that of copper.
The melting point of copper is greater than that of zinc.
Zinc has a lower melting point than does copper.
Copper has a higher melting point than does zinc.

See this post:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-compa ... -vs-fewer/

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2015, 22:58
700slave wrote:
according to this book...the OA is E


The OA is B- this is GMAT Prep Question
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Jul 2015, 13:58
camlan1990 wrote:
stallone wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.
A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones

How exactly is "," & "-" should be used ??

OA is B. PLease recheck. "THE ONES" in E is ambigious, is it "movies" or "people"???

Dear camlan,
I'm happy to respond. :-) First of all, I corrected the OA: you are indeed correct that the OA of this official question is (B).

Nevertheless, I wouldn't say that "the ones" is entirely ambiguous in (E). Here's (E):
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies, fewer than the ones killed by bee stings.
The presence of the same verb, "killed," is enough to signal the parallelism of the subjects. Admittedly, something is funny about the modifying phrase after the comma coming so far from its target word, "seven." The dash works better than the comma here, to make it clear that we are referring to the whole of the sentence before the dash. Also, (E) is wordy and flaccid and indirect.

...fewer than have been killed... = sleek & elegant & sophisticated
...fewer than the ones killed.. = clunky, like something from a substandard middle school student

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 15 May 2017, 19:56
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies−less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies−less than those
B. movies−fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones

GMATNinja Could you help to analyze answers (B) & (E)? What is "the ones" in (E) referring to? Does the verb tense have to be in parallel "have been killed by X...have been killed by Y"?

B makes is clear that you're comparing "only seven" to "fewer", since each of these takes a verb in the same tense.

E is an ambiguous comparison, you could be comparing "fewer" to the shark.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2017, 01:05
jj32 wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones


I have studied this question many times.
two points I want to say.
first, "fewer than have been.." in B is adverbial, something that work as adverb to modify the preceding clause. this phrase is not adjective because if it is adjective, we can attach this phrase to "seven people"

only seven people, fewer than have been killed by bee sting, have been killed

this make no sense when the phrase is close the the noun modified.

second point is that " fewer than have been..." has no second element of comparison. this second element is implied. this point is hard for us because in most of the case, both element of comparison are present in the case.

those are two hard points we have to learn from this question.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2017, 17:27
1
victory47 wrote:
jj32 wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones


I have studied this question many times.
two points I want to say.
first, "fewer than have been.." in B is adverbial, something that work as adverb to modify the preceding clause. this phrase is not adjective because if it is adjective, we can attach this phrase to "seven people"

only seven people, fewer than have been killed by bee sting, have been killed

this make no sense when the phrase is close the the noun modified.

second point is that " fewer than have been..." has no second element of comparison. this second element is implied. this point is hard for us because in most of the case, both element of comparison are present in the case.

those are two hard points we have to learn from this question.

Dear victory47,

My friend, if you don't mind, I'd like to comment on your analysis. :-)

A clause beginning with "than" is always a adverbial clause. The word "than" is typically preceded be a comparative word, in this case, "fewer." The target of the modifying clause is the action of the independent clause. This action, "Only seven people . . . have been killed by the great white shark. . . " is clear: that's the first element of the comparison. What follows the word "than" is the second element of the comparison.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2017, 23:56
mikemcgarry wrote:
victory47 wrote:
jj32 wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones


I have studied this question many times.
two points I want to say.
first, "fewer than have been.." in B is adverbial, something that work as adverb to modify the preceding clause. this phrase is not adjective because if it is adjective, we can attach this phrase to "seven people"

only seven people, fewer than have been killed by bee sting, have been killed

this make no sense when the phrase is close the the noun modified.

second point is that " fewer than have been..." has no second element of comparison. this second element is implied. this point is hard for us because in most of the case, both element of comparison are present in the case.

those are two hard points we have to learn from this question.

Dear victory47,

My friend, if you don't mind, I'd like to comment on your analysis. :-)

A clause beginning with "than" is always a adverbial clause. The word "than" is typically preceded be a comparative word, in this case, "fewer." The target of the modifying clause is the action of the independent clause. This action, "Only seven people . . . have been killed by the great white shark. . . " is clear: that's the first element of the comparison. What follows the word "than" is the second element of the comparison.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


thank you Mike
why "fewer than..." can not modify "only seven people..." I think the following is correct.

seven persons, fewer than the number of person in my gmat class, have been killed by sharks.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2017, 02:51
thangvietnam wrote:
thank you Mike
why "fewer than..." can not modify "only seven people..." I think the following is correct.

seven persons, fewer than the number of person in my gmat class, have been killed by sharks.




Hello thangvietnam,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

Yes, the phrase fewer than have been killed... refers back to seven people to show that the number of people killed by the shark is fewer than those killed by bee stings.

The structure after than maintains perfect parallelism between the actions presents as part of the comparison.


Hope this helps. :-)
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New post 14 Oct 2017, 02:53
mikemcgarry wrote:
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Experts,

Can anyone comment on how correct option works? What kind of construction is this?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

B. movies—fewer than have been

Thanks
H

Dear imhimanshu,
I am replying to your pm, and I'm happy to give my 2 cents on this question.

I have looked at various websites, and I am astounded how the web seems almost equally divided between people who insist the OA is (B) and people who insist the OA is (E). If this indeed a GMAT Prep, then either GMAT Prep itself showed inconsistencies, or tons of people mistakenly cite a wrong answer as the OA. Something is very fishy here.

I really liked what pqhai had to say about the dash --- a more emphatic break than a comma or semicolon. It can indicate an unexpected shift in the flow of the sentence.
Ted Williams was a Hall-of-Fame baseball player --- and a champion fisherman.
It can also be used for an appositive phrase or other noun modifier, especially if the modifier is long.
Americans consider Washington the "Father of the Country" --- a title that indicates how much he is endeared to Americans.

In the (B) version of the sentence,
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.
the dash serves to show an unexpected shift in the logic --- folks are deathly afraid of sharks, and the movies (such as "Jaws") have made notorious death by sharks. The unexpected irony is that little old bees have killed more people than gigantic sharks. The dash indicates this unexpected shift. Notice the good verb parallelism ---- "have been killed by X ... have been killed by Y". What pqhai says about this choice doesn't make sense to me --- it's verb parallelism --- what follows the dash is not a modifier.

Here, I would say both (B) & (E) are correct, grammatically and stylistically. We are dealing with the number of something, i.e. something countable, so we absolutely need the word "fewer" instead of "less." Choices (A) & (C) make the countable/uncountable mistake, so they are plain wrong, and (D) is an awkward wordy disaster. Choice (B) make be a tad shorter and more elegant than (E), but it's not really characteristic of the GMAT to have two answers, both of which are essentially correct: they are usually very good about making one clearly right answer and making something clearly flawed about each of the other four answers. Something is very fishy with this question.

Mike :-)





Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!
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New post 15 Oct 2017, 14:29
soodia wrote:
Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!

Dear soodia,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, this is an issue that can be particularly perplexing for non-native speakers. When there are words that are the same or similar in both branches of the parallelism, we can omit the words in the second branch rather than repeating it. See:
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT
This is a feature of elegant sophisticated writing, and it does appear frequently on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you have any questions about what I wrote in that blog article.

Mike :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 30 Apr 2018, 01:57
prateek176 wrote:
Q. Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

a. movies—less than those
b. movies—fewer than have been
c. movies, which is less than those
d. movies, a number lower than the people
e. movies, fewer than the ones


The dash is following the description of shark. Then the later describes the number seven. So, we need a dash after movies.
Left with A and B. Since the number is countable, 'less' in A is erroneous. B fixes the error by using 'fewer'.
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Originally posted by TaN1213 on 29 Apr 2018, 09:12.
Last edited by TaN1213 on 30 Apr 2018, 01:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2018, 10:42
prateek176 wrote:
Q. Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

a. movies—less than those
b. movies—fewer than have been
c. movies, which is less than those
d. movies, a number lower than the people
e. movies, fewer than the ones


Can someone please explain what's wrong with option E?

Cheers!
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2018, 11:57
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Diwakar003 wrote:
prateek176 wrote:
Q. Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

a. movies—less than those
b. movies—fewer than have been
c. movies, which is less than those
d. movies, a number lower than the people
e. movies, fewer than the ones


Can someone please explain what's wrong with option E?

Cheers!


Diwakar003

The expression "fewer than the ones" is incorrect because here we are wrongly comparing a number(seven people) with people killed by bee stings. comparing a number with a category of people is incorrect

Hope this helps :-)

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2018, 12:58
1
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Diwakar003 wrote:
prateek176 wrote:
Q. Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

a. movies—less than those
b. movies—fewer than have been
c. movies, which is less than those
d. movies, a number lower than the people
e. movies, fewer than the ones


Can someone please explain what's wrong with option E?

Cheers!

You must have a dash ( - ) after movies, else the later phrase will illogically describe movies. So, C, D and E are eliminated right away.
E.g
He took a job in New York city - a city that never sleeps- that pays him lesser than his previous job.
Read the sentence as : He took a job in New York city that pays him lesser that his previous job.

The green part enclosed in two dashes is the descriptive phrase of the word right before dash.

Hope it's clear now.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Apr 2018, 00:43
Hello TaN1213,

I do have a doubt out here. Why do we say if there is comma after movies then it will modify previous noun i.e. movies only.
THere are scenario when verb-ing or verb-ed modifier appears in middle of sentence with comma pair then it stands individually and clause / phrase following this links to main sentence which appears before this comma pair.

Same way why we can't we say this comma pair will stand individually modifying white shark and sentence following this would link with seven people as a comparison.


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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Apr 2018, 01:54
1
abhik1502 wrote:
Hello TaN1213,

I do have a doubt out here. Why do we say if there is comma after movies then it will modify previous noun i.e. movies only.
THere are scenario when verb-ing or verb-ed modifier appears in middle of sentence with comma pair then it stands individually and clause / phrase following this links to main sentence which appears before this comma pair.

Same way why we can't we say this comma pair will stand individually modifying white shark and sentence following this would link with seven people as a comparison.


regards
Abhishek


Hello Abhishek,

You're correct.
The problem is that we have two consecutive modifiers, one modifying the previous noun-sharks , and other trying to modify a farther noun - seven people.
A similar approach is followed in option D:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies, a number lower than the people killed by bee stings- uses 2 consecutive modifiers, making the sentence clumsy. Is the 2nd modifier modifying the 1st modifier or a farther noun from the beginning clause? confusing isn't it?

Bottom line- Two consecutive modifiers are definitely not preferable.

In the question , we need two modifiers. So, we used a neat way of doing that by using a dash.

Hope that makes sense.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 17 May 2018, 18:05
Quote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.


(A) movies—less than those - Incorrect.

(B) movies—fewer than have been - Correct.

(C) movies, which is less than those - Incorrect.

(D) movies, a number lower than the people - Incorrect. "a number lower than people" is wrong comparison.

(E) movies, fewer than the ones - Incorrect. "Ones" refer to specific entity.

Answer: (B).
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2018, 05:10
700slave wrote:
Source : GMATPrep Default Exam Pack

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

(A) movies—less than those

(B) movies—fewer than have been

(C) movies, which is less than those

(D) movies, a number lower than the people

(E) movies, fewer than the ones

https://www.nature.com/articles/29441


Sharks! Predators of the Sea
by Piero Angela and Alberto Angela

Running Press, $19.98

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies -- fewer than the number killed by bee stings. In Sharks! Predators of the Sea (Running Press, $19.98), Piero Angela and Alberto Angela, aided by 160 full-colour photographs by Alberto Luca Recchi, explore the truths and myths about these ancient predators and reveal why it is more a case of the biter bit, as man's culinary cravings threaten these creatures' survival.


Hi Verbal Experts (GMATNinja, daagh, mikemcgarry, egmat),

Can someone please elaborate on why option D is wrong? Is it because of comparision error?
Waiting for your relpy.. Thanks in advance!! :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Aug 2018, 12:40
SidJainGMAT wrote:
700slave wrote:
Source : GMATPrep Default Exam Pack

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

(A) movies—less than those

(B) movies—fewer than have been

(C) movies, which is less than those

(D) movies, a number lower than the people

(E) movies, fewer than the ones

Hi Verbal Experts (GMATNinja, daagh, mikemcgarry, egmat),

Can someone please elaborate on why option D is wrong? Is it because of comparision error?
Waiting for your relpy.. Thanks in advance!! :-)

You answered your own question! :) (D) claims that a number is lower than people. Unless you've got a bunch of sky-divers in flight and an inflatable balloon with the word "TWO" floating beneath them, that makes absolutely no sense. And because we're comparing countable items, we'd use "fewer" here, so "lower" is incorrect as well.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Aug 2018, 22:30
GMATNinja A lot of contention is going on between B and E. Though I marked B on the basis of tense parallelism (have been), why is E wrong?
Is this the tense parallelism factor that leads to E winning over B.

I also see some great explanation by mikemcgarry ,who says both B and E are correct. But at the end of the day we have to choose one option and we must have an explanation to reject the other.
I am not getting a reason to reject E. I rejected it on the basis of my instinct.

Please enlighten.
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha   [#permalink] 11 Aug 2018, 22:30

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