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Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 06 Aug 2017, 12:12
mikemcgarry wrote:
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Experts,

Can anyone comment on how correct option works? What kind of construction is this?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

B. movies—fewer than have been

Thanks
H

Dear imhimanshu,
I am replying to your pm, and I'm happy to give my 2 cents on this question.

I have looked at various websites, and I am astounded how the web seems almost equally divided between people who insist the OA is (B) and people who insist the OA is (E). If this indeed a GMAT Prep, then either GMAT Prep itself showed inconsistencies, or tons of people mistakenly cite a wrong answer as the OA. Something is very fishy here.

I really liked what pqhai had to say about the dash --- a more emphatic break than a comma or semicolon. It can indicate an unexpected shift in the flow of the sentence.
Ted Williams was a Hall-of-Fame baseball player --- and a champion fisherman.
It can also be used for an appositive phrase or other noun modifier, especially if the modifier is long.
Americans consider Washington the "Father of the Country" --- a title that indicates how much he is endeared to Americans.

In the (B) version of the sentence,
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.
the dash serves to show an unexpected shift in the logic --- folks are deathly afraid of sharks, and the movies (such as "Jaws") have made notorious death by sharks. The unexpected irony is that little old bees have killed more people than gigantic sharks. The dash indicates this unexpected shift. Notice the good verb parallelism ---- "have been killed by X ... have been killed by Y". What pqhai says about this choice doesn't make sense to me --- it's verb parallelism --- what follows the dash is not a modifier.

Here, I would say both (B) & (E) are correct, grammatically and stylistically. We are dealing with the number of something, i.e. something countable, so we absolutely need the word "fewer" instead of "less." Choices (A) & (C) make the countable/uncountable mistake, so they are plain wrong, and (D) is an awkward wordy disaster. Choice (B) make be a tad shorter and more elegant than (E), but it's not really characteristic of the GMAT to have two answers, both of which are essentially correct: they are usually very good about making one clearly right answer and making something clearly flawed about each of the other four answers. Something is very fishy with this question.

Mike :-)


My problem with (E) is the comma following movies. The emdash is basically a get out of jail free card in grammar and can add a point in parenthesis to a statement and is diverse. A comma does not have this ability and can easily lead to a splice. So when you use a comma we have a modifier error. The man eater of the movies is an appositive phrase. So now the comma is modifying the appositive phrase which is the man eater of the movies and is hence illogical.

Therefore B is correct.

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2017, 07:05
mikemcgarry wrote:
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Experts,

Can anyone comment on how correct option works? What kind of construction is this?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

B. movies—fewer than have been

Thanks
H

Dear imhimanshu,
I am replying to your pm, and I'm happy to give my 2 cents on this question.

I have looked at various websites, and I am astounded how the web seems almost equally divided between people who insist the OA is (B) and people who insist the OA is (E). If this indeed a GMAT Prep, then either GMAT Prep itself showed inconsistencies, or tons of people mistakenly cite a wrong answer as the OA. Something is very fishy here.

I really liked what pqhai had to say about the dash --- a more emphatic break than a comma or semicolon. It can indicate an unexpected shift in the flow of the sentence.
Ted Williams was a Hall-of-Fame baseball player --- and a champion fisherman.
It can also be used for an appositive phrase or other noun modifier, especially if the modifier is long.
Americans consider Washington the "Father of the Country" --- a title that indicates how much he is endeared to Americans.

In the (B) version of the sentence,
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.
the dash serves to show an unexpected shift in the logic --- folks are deathly afraid of sharks, and the movies (such as "Jaws") have made notorious death by sharks. The unexpected irony is that little old bees have killed more people than gigantic sharks. The dash indicates this unexpected shift. Notice the good verb parallelism ---- "have been killed by X ... have been killed by Y". What pqhai says about this choice doesn't make sense to me --- it's verb parallelism --- what follows the dash is not a modifier.

Here, I would say both (B) & (E) are correct, grammatically and stylistically. We are dealing with the number of something, i.e. something countable, so we absolutely need the word "fewer" instead of "less." Choices (A) & (C) make the countable/uncountable mistake, so they are plain wrong, and (D) is an awkward wordy disaster. Choice (B) make be a tad shorter and more elegant than (E), but it's not really characteristic of the GMAT to have two answers, both of which are essentially correct: they are usually very good about making one clearly right answer and making something clearly flawed about each of the other four answers. Something is very fishy with this question.

Mike :-)

'

I felt we dont have proper antecedent for "the ones" in option E . Please explain/
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 21 Sep 2017, 13:04
sumanainampudi wrote:
I felt we dont have proper antecedent for "the ones" in option E . Please explain/


Please see the explanation of this above: https://gmatclub.com/forum/only-seven-p ... l#p1854187
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2017, 10:31
mikemcgarry wrote:
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Experts,

Can anyone comment on how correct option works? What kind of construction is this?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

B. movies—fewer than have been

Thanks
H

Dear imhimanshu,
I am replying to your pm, and I'm happy to give my 2 cents on this question.

I have looked at various websites, and I am astounded how the web seems almost equally divided between people who insist the OA is (B) and people who insist the OA is (E). If this indeed a GMAT Prep, then either GMAT Prep itself showed inconsistencies, or tons of people mistakenly cite a wrong answer as the OA. Something is very fishy here.

I really liked what pqhai had to say about the dash --- a more emphatic break than a comma or semicolon. It can indicate an unexpected shift in the flow of the sentence.
Ted Williams was a Hall-of-Fame baseball player --- and a champion fisherman.
It can also be used for an appositive phrase or other noun modifier, especially if the modifier is long.
Americans consider Washington the "Father of the Country" --- a title that indicates how much he is endeared to Americans.

In the (B) version of the sentence,
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.
the dash serves to show an unexpected shift in the logic --- folks are deathly afraid of sharks, and the movies (such as "Jaws") have made notorious death by sharks. The unexpected irony is that little old bees have killed more people than gigantic sharks. The dash indicates this unexpected shift. Notice the good verb parallelism ---- "have been killed by X ... have been killed by Y". What pqhai says about this choice doesn't make sense to me --- it's verb parallelism --- what follows the dash is not a modifier.

Here, I would say both (B) & (E) are correct, grammatically and stylistically. We are dealing with the number of something, i.e. something countable, so we absolutely need the word "fewer" instead of "less." Choices (A) & (C) make the countable/uncountable mistake, so they are plain wrong, and (D) is an awkward wordy disaster. Choice (B) make be a tad shorter and more elegant than (E), but it's not really characteristic of the GMAT to have two answers, both of which are essentially correct: they are usually very good about making one clearly right answer and making something clearly flawed about each of the other four answers. Something is very fishy with this question.

Mike :-)

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File comment: PFA the answer screen of GMAT prep - OA is B

I still don't understand the usage of dash, can anoone please help me out

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2017, 20:25
700slave wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones

[Reveal] Spoiler:
My 2 issues here are: #1) what is the rule surrounding usage of "dashes"? and #2) what is the rule for usage of "lower"...is it a count or non-count word?

thx.


in the official answer B, "fewer than..." modify what? modifying whole sentence or "seven people...". it modified a clause or a noun?

pls,help explain more .

thanks.

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2017, 22:56
mikemcgarry wrote:
victory47 wrote:
jj32 wrote:
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones


I have studied this question many times.
two points I want to say.
first, "fewer than have been.." in B is adverbial, something that work as adverb to modify the preceding clause. this phrase is not adjective because if it is adjective, we can attach this phrase to "seven people"

only seven people, fewer than have been killed by bee sting, have been killed

this make no sense when the phrase is close the the noun modified.

second point is that " fewer than have been..." has no second element of comparison. this second element is implied. this point is hard for us because in most of the case, both element of comparison are present in the case.

those are two hard points we have to learn from this question.

Dear victory47,

My friend, if you don't mind, I'd like to comment on your analysis. :-)

A clause beginning with "than" is always a adverbial clause. The word "than" is typically preceded be a comparative word, in this case, "fewer." The target of the modifying clause is the action of the independent clause. This action, "Only seven people . . . have been killed by the great white shark. . . " is clear: that's the first element of the comparison. What follows the word "than" is the second element of the comparison.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


thank you Mike
why "fewer than..." can not modify "only seven people..." I think the following is correct.

seven persons, fewer than the number of person in my gmat class, have been killed by sharks.

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2017, 01:51
thangvietnam wrote:
thank you Mike
why "fewer than..." can not modify "only seven people..." I think the following is correct.

seven persons, fewer than the number of person in my gmat class, have been killed by sharks.




Hello thangvietnam,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

Yes, the phrase fewer than have been killed... refers back to seven people to show that the number of people killed by the shark is fewer than those killed by bee stings.

The structure after than maintains perfect parallelism between the actions presents as part of the comparison.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2017, 01:53
mikemcgarry wrote:
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Experts,

Can anyone comment on how correct option works? What kind of construction is this?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

B. movies—fewer than have been

Thanks
H

Dear imhimanshu,
I am replying to your pm, and I'm happy to give my 2 cents on this question.

I have looked at various websites, and I am astounded how the web seems almost equally divided between people who insist the OA is (B) and people who insist the OA is (E). If this indeed a GMAT Prep, then either GMAT Prep itself showed inconsistencies, or tons of people mistakenly cite a wrong answer as the OA. Something is very fishy here.

I really liked what pqhai had to say about the dash --- a more emphatic break than a comma or semicolon. It can indicate an unexpected shift in the flow of the sentence.
Ted Williams was a Hall-of-Fame baseball player --- and a champion fisherman.
It can also be used for an appositive phrase or other noun modifier, especially if the modifier is long.
Americans consider Washington the "Father of the Country" --- a title that indicates how much he is endeared to Americans.

In the (B) version of the sentence,
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.
the dash serves to show an unexpected shift in the logic --- folks are deathly afraid of sharks, and the movies (such as "Jaws") have made notorious death by sharks. The unexpected irony is that little old bees have killed more people than gigantic sharks. The dash indicates this unexpected shift. Notice the good verb parallelism ---- "have been killed by X ... have been killed by Y". What pqhai says about this choice doesn't make sense to me --- it's verb parallelism --- what follows the dash is not a modifier.

Here, I would say both (B) & (E) are correct, grammatically and stylistically. We are dealing with the number of something, i.e. something countable, so we absolutely need the word "fewer" instead of "less." Choices (A) & (C) make the countable/uncountable mistake, so they are plain wrong, and (D) is an awkward wordy disaster. Choice (B) make be a tad shorter and more elegant than (E), but it's not really characteristic of the GMAT to have two answers, both of which are essentially correct: they are usually very good about making one clearly right answer and making something clearly flawed about each of the other four answers. Something is very fishy with this question.

Mike :-)





Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2017, 13:29
soodia wrote:
Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!

Dear soodia,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, this is an issue that can be particularly perplexing for non-native speakers. When there are words that are the same or similar in both branches of the parallelism, we can omit the words in the second branch rather than repeating it. See:
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT
This is a feature of elegant sophisticated writing, and it does appear frequently on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you have any questions about what I wrote in that blog article.

Mike :-)
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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2017, 18:38
mikemcgarry wrote:
soodia wrote:
Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!

Dear soodia,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, this is an issue that can be particularly perplexing for non-native speakers. When there are words that are the same or similar in both branches of the parallelism, we can omit the words in the second branch rather than repeating it. See:
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT
This is a feature of elegant sophisticated writing, and it does appear frequently on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you have any questions about what I wrote in that blog article.

Mike :-)




The link was amazing.... :-) :-) :-)
thank you for such a great help :-)

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 17 Oct 2017, 22:10
mikemcgarry wrote:
soodia wrote:
Dear Mike

in "B" we don't need to THOSE to show the comparison?? —fewer than(THOSE) have been killed?
in all of gmat question it is emphasised!

Dear soodia,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, this is an issue that can be particularly perplexing for non-native speakers. When there are words that are the same or similar in both branches of the parallelism, we can omit the words in the second branch rather than repeating it. See:
Dropping Common Words in Parallel on the GMAT
This is a feature of elegant sophisticated writing, and it does appear frequently on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you have any questions about what I wrote in that blog article.

Mike :-)



Dear Mike

I've read the article and I thought I learned it very well!
but apparently, it doesn't
you wrote we can omit similar part which doesn't need to repeat
could you see this question, please?

https://gmatclub.com/forum/advances-in- ... 03920.html

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2017, 01:54
Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies???less than those killed by bee stings.

(A) movies???less than those

(B) movies???fewer than have been

(C) movies, which is less than those

(D) movies, a number lower than the people

(E) movies, fewer than the ones

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Re: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white sha   [#permalink] 10 Dec 2017, 01:54

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