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Down On Consulting

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New post 30 Apr 2014, 04:54
brandon432 wrote:
International travel usually only happens if you seek out projects requiring it.

Posted from my mobile device


@mxm, @brandon
Noob question - how do you seek those out? Let the firm know and try to get into one? I'm assuming those are highly sort after, right?

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jumsumtak wrote:
@mxm, @brandon
Noob question - how do you seek those out? Let the firm know and try to get into one? I'm assuming those are highly sort after, right?


Not a noob question at all! There are different ways. Your current project may be looking to staff someone internationally, in which case you can express your interest to project leadership. That's how my friend was able to spend six months in Scotland. The project originally was going to staff someone from London there (would have been cheaper), but she argued her case!

If you work for a client that operates globally (like a lot of oil and gas companies), you also increase the likelihood of getting to travel internationally. On my first project, which was at a global oilfield services firm, we had to conduct workshops in Kuala Lumpur, Aberdeen, Buenos Aires, and Dubai.

And finally, you'll also hear of international projects from word of mouth, company emails (e.g. asking if anyone is willing to relocate to the Middle East for six months), or the company database (which you use to search for open roles). Then you would get in contact with whoever is leading up the project.

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New post 22 Dec 2014, 18:02
Just want to say thanks to all the contributors on this thread - it was a really great window into the consulting industry. Kind of wish I knew about this in college - but then again, why would I be on a website called gmat club during undergrad?

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The real scoop on consulting life from real consultants.

http://whatshouldwecallmgmtconsulting.tumblr.com/

When Staffing Says I'd be Perfect for the Case
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New post 02 Mar 2015, 23:16
I would like to know how hard it is to transfer from tier2 management companies such as Deloitte to Tier 1 companies.
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Ergenekon wrote:
I would like to know how hard it is to transfer from tier2 management companies such as Deloitte to Tier 1 companies.


Hmmm. I'm not quite sure I understand what you're asking. Their isn't really a mechanism for "transferring" between firms.

If you're currently employed full-time at one consulting firm and want to move to another, that's just a job search. Your network, skills, and experience will all come into play. It's exactly the same as trying for consulting from finance, engineering, or social work.

If you mean switching firms during your 2Y of an MBA program, after interning, that's a slightly different process. For the most part, you will follow the OCR program, although the emphasis on self-directed networking is usually higher. You'll probably want to rely on contacts you made during 1Y intern recruiting.

Hope this helps. If you have more details on the situation, I can try to provide more info.

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New post 03 Mar 2015, 12:32
brandon432 wrote:
Ergenekon wrote:
I would like to know how hard it is to transfer from tier2 management companies such as Deloitte to Tier 1 companies.


Hmmm. I'm not quite sure I understand what you're asking. Their isn't really a mechanism for "transferring" between firms.

If you're currently employed full-time at one consulting firm and want to move to another, that's just a job search. Your network, skills, and experience will all come into play. It's exactly the same as trying for consulting from finance, engineering, or social work.

If you mean switching firms during your 2Y of an MBA program, after interning, that's a slightly different process. For the most part, you will follow the OCR program, although the emphasis on self-directed networking is usually higher. You'll probably want to rely on contacts you made during 1Y intern recruiting.

Hope this helps. If you have more details on the situation, I can try to provide more info.



Thanks for you answer Brandon. I meant that you know finding a job in MBB is much more difficult than finding it in Deloitte or other tier 2 companies. How recruiters from MBB look at other consulting companies?
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As far as I know, it is pretty uncommon to lateral from non-MBB to MBB unless one of two things happens:
1. MBA - Both pre-MBA consultants and non-MBB summer interns find their way to MBB regularly.
2. Acquisition - Quite a few Monitor and Booz folks ended up at MBB after they were bought. This tends to be more likely with senior staff who can bring clients with them.

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New post 03 Mar 2015, 13:41
This thread is awesome and contains a wealth of knowledge for those considering a consulting career post MBA! Truly appreciate this!

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New post 03 Mar 2015, 22:25
brandon432 wrote:
As far as I know, it is pretty uncommon to lateral from non-MBB to MBB unless one of two things happens:
1. MBA - Both pre-MBA consultants and non-MBB summer interns find their way to MBB regularly.
2. Acquisition - Quite a few Monitor and Booz folks ended up at MBB after they were bought. This tends to be more likely with senior staff who can bring clients with them.



Thanks for your answer Brandon.
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New post 03 Mar 2015, 22:28
hopeful101candidate wrote:
This thread is awesome and contains a wealth of knowledge for those considering a consulting career post MBA! Truly appreciate this!


Indeed it is. However, it is not so active as it was before. We should try to revive it somehow.
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New post 19 Mar 2015, 08:10
I posted this on another discussion, but maybe someone here can answer these questions for me too.

A few questions for people who are pursuing a career in consulting post-MBA:

I've done some basic research on numerous consultants' LinkedIn profiles and noticed that a large number of them have a background in engineering/technology. How important do you think is it to have this background to have a successful career in consulting? I understand that IT consultants would definitely need this background to be successful in their field, but what about general strategy management consultants? Do you feel that not having a tech/engineering background is a disadvantage?

After my MBA, I'm hoping to land a consulting gig at one of the 'Big 4'. How prominent do you think these companies are at the so-called trans-elite schools (Georgetown, Emory, Kelley, Rice)? I see quite a few of their MBA graduates end up in Big 4 consulting positions, but are these the same positions that are earning the salaries mentioned above (ie. $120k - $135k base, etc.)? When I do a glassdoor search for the salaries for these positions, they seem to be closer to the $90k - $100k mark.

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hopeful101candidate wrote:
I posted this on another discussion, but maybe someone here can answer these questions for me too.

A few questions for people who are pursuing a career in consulting post-MBA:

I've done some basic research on numerous consultants' LinkedIn profiles and noticed that a large number of them have a background in engineering/technology. How important do you think is it to have this background to have a successful career in consulting? I understand that IT consultants would definitely need this background to be successful in their field, but what about general strategy management consultants? Do you feel that not having a tech/engineering background is a disadvantage?

After my MBA, I'm hoping to land a consulting gig at one of the 'Big 4'. How prominent do you think these companies are at the so-called trans-elite schools (Georgetown, Emory, Kelley, Rice)? I see quite a few of their MBA graduates end up in Big 4 consulting positions, but are these the same positions that are earning the salaries mentioned above (ie. $120k - $135k base, etc.)? When I do a glassdoor search for the salaries for these positions, they seem to be closer to the $90k - $100k mark.


1. STEM backgrounds - 25-40% of the student body at most top b-schools is comprised of STEM majors. Factor in that 1) some of the econ/finance/biz undergrads come from consulting and 2) that most full-time MBA students are career-switchers - it's not a stretch to think that over half of post-MBA consultants have a STEM background. Generalist firms don't care about the content of your background, so not having one is not a disadvantage. They look for analytic ability, team orientation, communication skills, and leadership potential.

2. Google "[b-school name] employment report". The big 4 are very well-represented at most of those schools (have never looked at Rice), with MBB making a showing too. The consulting positions coming from any top-25ish school are basically the same.

3. I find Glassdoor to be pretty inaccurate/polluted. The most accurate sites for consulting salaries are:
- http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... a-interns/
- The Company DB (pay or contribute to access) at http://www.wallstreetoasis.com

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New post 19 Mar 2015, 08:47
brandon432 wrote:
hopeful101candidate wrote:
I posted this on another discussion, but maybe someone here can answer these questions for me too.

A few questions for people who are pursuing a career in consulting post-MBA:

I've done some basic research on numerous consultants' LinkedIn profiles and noticed that a large number of them have a background in engineering/technology. How important do you think is it to have this background to have a successful career in consulting? I understand that IT consultants would definitely need this background to be successful in their field, but what about general strategy management consultants? Do you feel that not having a tech/engineering background is a disadvantage?

After my MBA, I'm hoping to land a consulting gig at one of the 'Big 4'. How prominent do you think these companies are at the so-called trans-elite schools (Georgetown, Emory, Kelley, Rice)? I see quite a few of their MBA graduates end up in Big 4 consulting positions, but are these the same positions that are earning the salaries mentioned above (ie. $120k - $135k base, etc.)? When I do a glassdoor search for the salaries for these positions, they seem to be closer to the $90k - $100k mark.


1. STEM backgrounds - 25-40% of most top b-schools is comprised on STEM majors. Factor in that 1) some of the econ/finance/biz undergrads come from consulting and 2) that most full-time MBA students are career-switchers - it's not a stretch to think that over half of post-MBA consultants have a STEM background. Generalist firms don't care about the content of your background, so not having one is not a disadvantage. They look for analytic ability, team orientation, communication skills, and leadership potential.

2. Google "[b-school name] employment report". The big 4 are very well-represented at most of those schools (have never looked at Rice), with MBB making a showing too. The consulting positions coming from any top-25ish school are basically the same.

3. I find Glassdoor to be pretty inaccurate/polluted. The most accurate sites for consulting salaries are:
- http://managementconsulted.com/consulti ... a-interns/
- The Company DB (pay or contribute to access) at http://www.wallstreetoasis.com


Thanks brandon432! Appreciate the clarification!

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New post 19 Mar 2015, 09:00
hopeful101candidate wrote:
I posted this on another discussion, but maybe someone here can answer these questions for me too.

A few questions for people who are pursuing a career in consulting post-MBA:

I've done some basic research on numerous consultants' LinkedIn profiles and noticed that a large number of them have a background in engineering/technology. How important do you think is it to have this background to have a successful career in consulting? I understand that IT consultants would definitely need this background to be successful in their field, but what about general strategy management consultants? Do you feel that not having a tech/engineering background is a disadvantage?

After my MBA, I'm hoping to land a consulting gig at one of the 'Big 4'. How prominent do you think these companies are at the so-called trans-elite schools (Georgetown, Emory, Kelley, Rice)? I see quite a few of their MBA graduates end up in Big 4 consulting positions, but are these the same positions that are earning the salaries mentioned above (ie. $120k - $135k base, etc.)? When I do a glassdoor search for the salaries for these positions, they seem to be closer to the $90k - $100k mark.


Disclaimer: I'm not a consultant yet, but I am an "engineering" type that is looking to pursue an MC career post-MBA

From what I've seen and gathered here on this world wide web, is that a lot of engineering types tend to find their way into consulting because the same math, critical thinking, logical reasoning, and collaboration skills required for engineering are vital for management consulting. Engineers can leverage many of their existing skills while making more money ;)

However, engineering isn't required for management consulting. I highly doubt that MC's are doing integrated circuit designs, fourier transforms or calculating heat transfer of a hot viscous fluid over a flat plate. MC's are solving large and ambiguous business problems that are much less complex mathematically. It still requires a basic math competency and an analytic mind to solve, but not to the same degree technical engineering problems require. Many liberal arts or business majors go into management consulting as well. They just need to show that they have the basic math and reasoning skills that most engineers have. That could be shown through coursework, professional experience, standardized tests (aka GMAT), or a combination of those things.

From my understanding, MC's do look at GMAT scores during recruiting, but that's only for the initial screen to determine who to interview. Once you get an interview, then hiring is based solely on your performance in the interview, where cases are a major portion. Rhyme has an excellent guide for this here: http://gmatclub.com/forum/rhyme-s-guide-to-management-consulting-recruiting-63411.html#p462858

For the "trans-elite" schools that you mentioned, I believe the Big 4 do recruit there and so there will be plenty of opportunities to network with current consultants and get interview slots. As for the positions and salaries, I believe the Big 4 hire MBA's for a large variety of functions. The Big 4 typically are also associated with large Financial Advisory and Auditing arms and so they may hire MBA's for positions under those divisions which is a little different from the strategy arms. I'm not sure if similar title positions in those arms are different or if non-MBA's in similar title positions throw salaries off on glassdoor, but I think in general there's a pretty standard compensation package for MBA consultants at each company that includes a base salary, signing bonus, and ranges for performance bonuses. I believe depending on the company and your quality as an applicant you can expect between ~$100k and ~$150k base right now (someone going through MC recruiting right now can correct me if I'm wrong).

I hope this answers your questions and if I misspoke anything here, please feel free to correct me :-D

Edit: Lol, looks like brandon432 beat me to it!

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New post 19 Mar 2015, 09:33
dtse86 wrote:
hopeful101candidate wrote:
I posted this on another discussion, but maybe someone here can answer these questions for me too.

A few questions for people who are pursuing a career in consulting post-MBA:

I've done some basic research on numerous consultants' LinkedIn profiles and noticed that a large number of them have a background in engineering/technology. How important do you think is it to have this background to have a successful career in consulting? I understand that IT consultants would definitely need this background to be successful in their field, but what about general strategy management consultants? Do you feel that not having a tech/engineering background is a disadvantage?

After my MBA, I'm hoping to land a consulting gig at one of the 'Big 4'. How prominent do you think these companies are at the so-called trans-elite schools (Georgetown, Emory, Kelley, Rice)? I see quite a few of their MBA graduates end up in Big 4 consulting positions, but are these the same positions that are earning the salaries mentioned above (ie. $120k - $135k base, etc.)? When I do a glassdoor search for the salaries for these positions, they seem to be closer to the $90k - $100k mark.


Disclaimer: I'm not a consultant yet, but I am an "engineering" type that is looking to pursue an MC career post-MBA

From what I've seen and gathered hear on this world wide web, is that a lot of engineering types tend to find their way into consulting because the same math, critical thinking, logical reasoning, and collaboration skills required for engineering are vital for management consulting. Engineers can leverage many of their existing skills while making more money ;)

However, engineering isn't required for management consulting. I highly doubt that MC's are doing integrated circuit designs, fourier transforms or calculating heat transfer of a hot viscous fluid over a flat plate. MC's are solving large and ambiguous business problems that are much less complex mathematically. It still requires a basic math competency and an analytic mind to solve, but not to the same degree technical engineering problems require. Many liberal arts or business majors go into management consulting as well. They just need to show that they have the basic math and reasoning skills that most engineers have. That could be shown through coursework, professional experience, standardized tests (aka GMAT), or a combination of those things.

From my understanding, MC's do look at GMAT scores during recruiting, but that's only for the initial screen to determine who to interview. Once you get an interview, then hiring is based solely on your performance in the interview, where cases are a major portion. Rhyme has an excellent guide for this here: http://gmatclub.com/forum/rhyme-s-guide-to-management-consulting-recruiting-63411.html#p462858

For the "trans-elite" schools that you mentioned, I believe the Big 4 do recruit there and so there will be plenty of opportunities to network with current consultants and get interview slots. As for the positions and salaries, I believe the Big 4 hire MBA's for a large variety of functions. The Big 4 typically are also associated with large Financial Advisory and Auditing arms and so they may hire MBA's for positions under those divisions which is a little different from the strategy arms. I'm not sure if similar title positions in those arms are different or if non-MBA's in similar title positions throw salaries off on glassdoor, but I think in general there's a pretty standard compensation package for MBA consultants at each company that includes a base salary, singing bonus, and ranges for performance bonuses. I believe depending on the company and your quality as an applicant you can expect between ~$100k and ~$150k base right now (someone going through MC recruiting right now can correct me if I'm wrong).

I hope this answers your questions and if I misspoke anything here, please feel free to correct me :-D

Edit: Lol, looks like brandon432 beat me to it!


Thanks a lot dtse86! Lots of great information there!

With regards to the GMAT scores for initial recruiting, do you happen to know what firms consider acceptable or the minimum to qualify for an interview? Also, do you know whether salaries for financial advisory consulting positions are drastically different than the strategy arms?

Thanks again!

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hopeful101candidate wrote:
dtse86 wrote:

Disclaimer: I'm not a consultant yet, but I am an "engineering" type that is looking to pursue an MC career post-MBA

From what I've seen and gathered hear on this world wide web, is that a lot of engineering types tend to find their way into consulting because the same math, critical thinking, logical reasoning, and collaboration skills required for engineering are vital for management consulting. Engineers can leverage many of their existing skills while making more money ;)

However, engineering isn't required for management consulting. I highly doubt that MC's are doing integrated circuit designs, fourier transforms or calculating heat transfer of a hot viscous fluid over a flat plate. MC's are solving large and ambiguous business problems that are much less complex mathematically. It still requires a basic math competency and an analytic mind to solve, but not to the same degree technical engineering problems require. Many liberal arts or business majors go into management consulting as well. They just need to show that they have the basic math and reasoning skills that most engineers have. That could be shown through coursework, professional experience, standardized tests (aka GMAT), or a combination of those things.

From my understanding, MC's do look at GMAT scores during recruiting, but that's only for the initial screen to determine who to interview. Once you get an interview, then hiring is based solely on your performance in the interview, where cases are a major portion. Rhyme has an excellent guide for this here: http://gmatclub.com/forum/rhyme-s-guide-to-management-consulting-recruiting-63411.html#p462858

For the "trans-elite" schools that you mentioned, I believe the Big 4 do recruit there and so there will be plenty of opportunities to network with current consultants and get interview slots. As for the positions and salaries, I believe the Big 4 hire MBA's for a large variety of functions. The Big 4 typically are also associated with large Financial Advisory and Auditing arms and so they may hire MBA's for positions under those divisions which is a little different from the strategy arms. I'm not sure if similar title positions in those arms are different or if non-MBA's in similar title positions throw salaries off on glassdoor, but I think in general there's a pretty standard compensation package for MBA consultants at each company that includes a base salary, singing bonus, and ranges for performance bonuses. I believe depending on the company and your quality as an applicant you can expect between ~$100k and ~$150k base right now (someone going through MC recruiting right now can correct me if I'm wrong).

I hope this answers your questions and if I misspoke anything here, please feel free to correct me :-D

Edit: Lol, looks like brandon432 beat me to it!


Thanks a lot dtse86! Lots of great information there!

With regards to the GMAT scores for initial recruiting, do you happen to know what firms consider acceptable or the minimum to qualify for an interview? Also, do you know whether salaries for financial advisory consulting positions are drastically different than the strategy arms?

Thanks again!


From what I've read here:http://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-score-use-in-employment-21669-20.html#p1249434 pretty much anything 700+ is good. There's no official minimum, but barring any extremely impressive accomplishments (i.e. Olympic Gold Medal or winning on Jeopardy) anything below that may be difficult.

Looks like you have a score that should put you in a good position. I wouldn't worry too much.
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It's just not that simple.
hopeful101candidate wrote:

From my understanding, MC's do look at GMAT scores during recruiting, but that's only for the initial screen to determine who to interview.


1. Most firms won't even see your resume and GMAT until you're 1.5-2 months into the recruiting process. The first screen is definitely networking.

dtse86 wrote:
From what I've read here:http://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-score-use-in-employment-21669-20.html#p1249434 pretty much anything 700+ is good. There's no official minimum, but barring any extremely impressive accomplishments (i.e. Olympic Gold Medal or winning on Jeopardy) anything below that may be difficult.

Looks like you have a score that should put you in a good position. I wouldn't worry too much.


2. It seems unlikely that there is a "hurdle score" one must attain to be considered. I have friends, colleagues, and classmates that landed at MBB (as an example) with sub-700 scores and no gold medals. That said, a quick scan of resumes tells me that this group tends to have scores in the mid- to high- 700s. It's tough to imagine that every 10 point increase in GMAT score doesn't produce a marginal gain in the odds of recruiting success. Think about it this way: top b-schools have average GMATs upwards of 730. Maybe only 15% of those b-school classes and 33% of those interested in consulting end up at those three firms. With that selectivity, it seems unlikely that a below-peer-average score would be sufficient to "check the box." I'm not saying it would disqualify someone; I'm just saying it's more complicated.

More importantly, unless someone is seriously considering retaking the GMAT just for recruiting purposes, it's a moot point. Better to focus on crafting an effective resume, narrative, and networking skills. Those are actually actionable.

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New post 19 Mar 2015, 13:02
Thanks dtse86 and brandon432!

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brandon432 wrote:
It's just not that simple.
hopeful101candidate wrote:

From my understanding, MC's do look at GMAT scores during recruiting, but that's only for the initial screen to determine who to interview.


1. Most firms won't even see your resume and GMAT until you're 1.5-2 months into the recruiting process. The first screen is definitely networking.

dtse86 wrote:
From what I've read here:http://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-score-use-in-employment-21669-20.html#p1249434 pretty much anything 700+ is good. There's no official minimum, but barring any extremely impressive accomplishments (i.e. Olympic Gold Medal or winning on Jeopardy) anything below that may be difficult.

Looks like you have a score that should put you in a good position. I wouldn't worry too much.


2. It seems unlikely that there is a "hurdle score" one must attain to be considered. I have friends, colleagues, and classmates that landed at MBB (as an example) with sub-700 scores and no gold medals. That said, a quick scan of resumes tells me that this group tends to have scores in the mid- to high- 700s. It's tough to imagine that every 10 point increase in GMAT score doesn't produce a marginal gain in the odds of recruiting success. Think about it this way: top b-schools have average GMATs upwards of 730. Maybe only 15% of those b-school classes and 33% of those interested in consulting end up at those three firms. With that selectivity, it seems unlikely that a below-peer-average score would be sufficient to "check the box." I'm not saying it would disqualify someone; I'm just saying it's more complicated.

More importantly, unless someone is seriously considering retaking the GMAT just for recruiting purposes, it's a moot point. Better to focus on crafting an effective resume, narrative, and networking skills. Those are actually actionable.


Thanks for the clarifications brandon432 :-D

I completely agree that recruiting and getting an interview is not exactly simple. It's an art and to do it well requires a combination of well executed activities including networking, resume writing, and even b-school performance (for all of us not at GND schools ;))

To hopeful101candidate :
I actually found an excellent blog-post that describes the entire MC recruiting activities extremely well (McKinsey Interviews - Roadmap to a McKinsey Job and 3 Things to Consider) and another one that describes the resume screening process from the reviewer's perspective (How the McKinsey Resume / CV Screening Process Works). Excellent reads if you have the time... Although you asked about the 'Big 4' I believe their strategy arms replicate this process or at least try to emulate it in some way. PM me if you're curious to look at some of the other awesome free resources I've found online 8-)
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My Application experience: Low GPA Success!

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Down On Consulting   [#permalink] 19 Mar 2015, 13:58

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