Last visit was: 14 Dec 2024, 09:32 It is currently 14 Dec 2024, 09:32
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
User avatar
Bunuel
User avatar
Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 97,874
Own Kudos:
685,827
 []
Given Kudos: 88,270
Products:
Expert reply
Active GMAT Club Expert! Tag them with @ followed by their username for a faster response.
Posts: 97,874
Kudos: 685,827
 []
2
Kudos
Add Kudos
33
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Most Helpful Reply
User avatar
BrentGMATPrepNow
User avatar
GMAT Club Legend
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Last visit: 13 May 2024
Posts: 6,786
Own Kudos:
32,205
 []
Given Kudos: 799
Location: Canada
Expert reply
Posts: 6,786
Kudos: 32,205
 []
2
Kudos
Add Kudos
10
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
General Discussion
User avatar
chetan2u
User avatar
RC & DI Moderator
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 11,434
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 333
Status:Math and DI Expert
Products:
Expert reply
Posts: 11,434
Kudos: 38,041
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
User avatar
chetan2u
User avatar
RC & DI Moderator
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 11,434
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 333
Status:Math and DI Expert
Products:
Expert reply
Posts: 11,434
Kudos: 38,041
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GMATPrepNow
Bunuel
If \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\), what is k?

(1) m = 4
(2) y = 4

Great question, Bunuel!!

Target question: What is k?

Given: \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\)
IMPORTANT: many people will mistakenly apply some exponent laws and conclude that -4k = m. HOWEVER, before we apply these exponent laws, we must be certain that the base does not equal 0, 1 or -1, in which case the exponent laws fly out the window.

Statement 1: m = 4
Let's TEST some values.

There are several values of y, k and m that satisfy statement 1. Here are two:
Case a: y = 1, k = 1 and m = 4. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{1^1}{1^5} = 1^4\), which works! In this case, k = 1

Case b: y = 1, k = 2 and m = 4. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{1^2}{1^{10}} = 1^4\), which works! In this case, k = 2

Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, statement 1 is NOT SUFFICIENT



Hi...

I would differ on the coloured portion.
The Q is telling us that the equality is True. So if you have y as 0, the equation becomes undefined and the very basis of the Q falls flat..
Similarly for other values.
If I say - " if y/y =y, what is y? I CAN NOT take y as 0
What you have conveyed is surely TRUE of the Q asked :- " IS y^k/y^5k=y^m
..
So value of m is sufficient to tell about value of k.
User avatar
BrentGMATPrepNow
User avatar
GMAT Club Legend
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Last visit: 13 May 2024
Posts: 6,786
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 799
Location: Canada
Expert reply
Posts: 6,786
Kudos: 32,205
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
chetan2u
I would differ on the coloured portion.
The Q is telling us that the equality is True. So if you have y as 0, the equation becomes undefined and the very basis of the Q falls flat..
Similarly for other values.
If I say - " if y/y =y, what is y? I CAN NOT take y as 0
What you have conveyed is surely TRUE of the Q asked :- " IS y^k/y^5k=y^m
..
So value of m is sufficient to tell about value of k.

The part about the base not equaling zero is a general comment.
For example, if we know that 0^x = 0^3, we can't conclude that x = 3

I don't agree your comments in blue.
All we know is that the equation must hold true.
My counterexamples for statement 1 satisfy the equation AND yield different answers to the target question. So, statement 1 cannot be sufficient.

Cheers,
Brent
User avatar
septwibowo
Joined: 27 Dec 2016
Last visit: 17 Nov 2023
Posts: 194
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 285
Concentration: Marketing, Social Entrepreneurship
GPA: 3.65
WE:Marketing (Education)
Products:
Posts: 194
Kudos: 187
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GMATPrepNow
Bunuel
If \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\), what is k?

(1) m = 4
(2) y = 4

Great question, Bunuel!!

Target question: What is k?

Given: \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\)
IMPORTANT: many people will mistakenly apply some exponent laws and conclude that -4k = m. HOWEVER, before we apply these exponent laws, we must be certain that the base does not equal 0, 1 or -1, in which case the exponent laws fly out the window.
Statement 1: m = 4
Let's TEST some values.

There are several values of y, k and m that satisfy statement 1. Here are two:
Case a: y = 1, k = 1 and m = 4. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{1^1}{1^5} = 1^4\), which works! In this case, k = 1

Case b: y = 1, k = 2 and m = 4. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{1^2}{1^{10}} = 1^4\), which works! In this case, k = 2

Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, statement 1 is NOT SUFFICIENT

Statement 2: y = 4
There are several values of x and y that satisfy statement 2. Here are two:
Case a: y = 4, k = 1 and m = -4. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{4^1}{4^5} = 4^{-4}\), which works! In this case, k = 1

Case b: y = 4, k = 2 and m = -8. Plugging this into our given equation, we get \(\frac{4^2}{4^{10}} = 4^{-8}\), which works! In this case, k = 2

Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, statement 2 is NOT SUFFICIENT

Statements 1 and 2 combined
Since statement 2 tells us that y does NOT equal 0, 1 or -1, we can safely apply some exponent laws:
Given: \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\)
Simplify left side to get: \(y^{-4k} = y^m\)
So, -4k = m
Statement 1 tells us that m = 4
Plug this into our equation to get: -4k = 4. which means k must equal -1
Since we can answer the target question with certainty, the combined statements are SUFFICIENT

Answer: [spoiler=]C[/spoiler

RELATED VIDEO

Wow :o :o :o
Intereseting, GMATPrepNow, I think we forget these exceptions. Thanks for remind us!
User avatar
chetan2u
User avatar
RC & DI Moderator
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 11,434
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 333
Status:Math and DI Expert
Products:
Expert reply
Posts: 11,434
Kudos: 38,041
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GMATPrepNow
chetan2u
I would differ on the coloured portion.
The Q is telling us that the equality is True. So if you have y as 0, the equation becomes undefined and the very basis of the Q falls flat..
Similarly for other values.
If I say - " if y/y =y, what is y? I CAN NOT take y as 0
What you have conveyed is surely TRUE of the Q asked :- " IS y^k/y^5k=y^m
..
So value of m is sufficient to tell about value of k.

The part about the base not equaling zero is a general comment.
For example, if we know that 0^x = 0^3, we can't conclude that x = 3

I don't agree your comments in blue.
All we know is that the equation must hold true.
My counterexamples for statement 1 satisfy the equation AND yield different answers to the target question. So, statement 1 cannot be sufficient.

Cheers,
Brent


hi...

I do not have any doubt on the logic as I would surely use it when it would have said - IS ... = ...

I am sure I have seen few Qs earlier where the final equation boils down to something like \(y^2=y^k\)..
so if someone tells me that - If \(y^2+3y - (2y+2) = y^k +y-2\), what is k?
the equation boils down to \(y^2=y^k\).. here answer should be k=2 but the logic of y as 0, 1 or -1 will not give k as 2
I may have not come across the y as 0,1 etc in such situations, and it may actually be true and I may be wrong.
so would request if you have come across such use in actuals, it will surely help many who would go through this thread

But if someone tells me - Is \(y^2+3y - (2y+2) = y^k +y-2......y^2=y^k\).. we cannot answer as all those values of 1, -1 or 0 come in.
User avatar
BrentGMATPrepNow
User avatar
GMAT Club Legend
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Last visit: 13 May 2024
Posts: 6,786
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 799
Location: Canada
Expert reply
Posts: 6,786
Kudos: 32,205
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
chetan2u
hi...

I do not have any doubt on the logic as I would surely use it when it would have said - IS ... = ...

I am sure I have seen few Qs earlier where the final equation boils down to something like \(y^2=y^k\)..
so if someone tells me that - If \(y^2+3y - (2y+2) = y^k +y-2\), what is k?
the equation boils down to \(y^2=y^k\).. here answer should be k=2 but the logic of y as 0, 1 or -1 will not give k as 2
I may have not come across the y as 0,1 etc in such situations, and it may actually be true and I may be wrong.
so would request if you have come across such use in actuals, it will surely help many who would go through this thread

But if someone tells me - Is \(y^2+3y - (2y+2) = y^k +y-2......y^2=y^k\).. we cannot answer as all those values of 1, -1 or 0 come in.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "IS" distinction.
The target question asks "What IS the value of k"

ASIDE: If the question were...
What is the value of k?
(1) 1^3 = 1^k
...would statement 1 be sufficient?
User avatar
chetan2u
User avatar
RC & DI Moderator
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 11,434
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 333
Status:Math and DI Expert
Products:
Expert reply
Posts: 11,434
Kudos: 38,041
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GMATPrepNow
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "IS" distinction.
The target question asks "What IS the value of k"

ASIDE: If the question were...
What is the value of k?
(1) 1^3 = 1^k
...would statement 1 be sufficient?

Hi...

i meant by "IS....=.." :- Is \(x^7=x^k\)?
here I would surely check x for 0,1,-1 and other values

But if the Q says it - IF \(x^7+x^2+4x+4=x^k+(x+2)^2\), what is the value of k?
this will boil down to \(x^7=x^k\) and we should get k as 7..

1^3=1^k is a different matter as it is giving base as 1, but if there is a variable as x above, I have not seen a Q claiming it to be insufficient and substituting x as 0,1, and -1 .
as I said earlier, maybe I have not seen a Q, it could be that there are such Q in actuals. If so, it will help.
User avatar
rahul16singh28
Joined: 31 Jul 2017
Last visit: 09 Jun 2020
Posts: 433
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 752
Location: Malaysia
GPA: 3.95
WE:Consulting (Energy)
Posts: 433
Kudos: 474
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Bunuel
If \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\), what is k?

(1) m = 4
(2) y = 4

Hi Bunuel

This seems to be Debatable OA. Can you please share your views on this.
User avatar
Bunuel
User avatar
Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Last visit: 14 Dec 2024
Posts: 97,874
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 88,270
Products:
Expert reply
Active GMAT Club Expert! Tag them with @ followed by their username for a faster response.
Posts: 97,874
Kudos: 685,827
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
rahul16singh28
Bunuel
If \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\), what is k?

(1) m = 4
(2) y = 4

Hi Bunuel

This seems to be Debatable OA. Can you please share your views on this.

OA is not debatable, it's C. Check the solution here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/if-y-k-y-5k- ... l#p1919376
User avatar
niks18
User avatar
Retired Moderator
Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Last visit: 30 Jun 2021
Posts: 887
Own Kudos:
1,620
 []
Given Kudos: 54
Location: India
GPA: 3.82
Products:
Posts: 887
Kudos: 1,620
 []
1
Kudos
Add Kudos
2
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Bunuel
If \(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m\), what is k?

(1) m = 4
(2) y = 4

\(\frac{y^k}{y^{5k}} = y^m=>y^{-4k}=y^m\).

Statement 1: Now here the base \(y\) is a variable and not a constant, hence WE CANNOT EQUATE THE POWERS

For e.g if we had \(5^{-4k}=5^m\), then there powers could be equated i.e. \(-4k=m\), hence by knowing the value of \(m\), we could know the value of \(k\)

But here if \(y=0\) or \(1\), then irrespective of the value of \(m\), \(k\) could take any value. For e.g \(1^{-8}=1^{100}\), so here \(m=100\) and \(k\) could be \(2\).

Hence Statement 1 is Insufficient

Statement 2: nothing mentioned about \(k\) or \(m\). Insufficient

Combining 1 & 2: we know the value of \(y\) & \(m\), hence value of \(k\) can be calculated. Sufficient

Option C
avatar
HAPPYatHARVARD
Joined: 07 Apr 2018
Last visit: 11 Apr 2020
Posts: 77
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 271
Location: United States
Concentration: General Management, Marketing
GMAT 1: 600 Q45 V28
GPA: 3.8
GMAT 1: 600 Q45 V28
Posts: 77
Kudos: 61
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
For y=1, we can't find the value of k or m. so y has to be something other than 1 or zero. Hence option B is also necessary.
User avatar
nick1816
User avatar
Retired Moderator
Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Last visit: 12 Dec 2024
Posts: 1,859
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 707
Location: India
Posts: 1,859
Kudos: 7,096
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Apply log both sides
-4k log(y) = m log(y)
m= (-4k), unless y is equal to 0 or 1
Statement 1
m=4 byt we dont know whether y=0 or 1
insufficient
Statement 2
y=4
we don't know the value of m
insufficient
Combining both equations
y=4 and m=4
sufficient
User avatar
Basshead
Joined: 09 Jan 2020
Last visit: 07 Feb 2024
Posts: 940
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 432
Location: United States
Posts: 940
Kudos: 252
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Are there any official problems that test the -1, 0, 1 in the base trap when dealing with exponents? Would love additional practice.
User avatar
bumpbot
User avatar
Non-Human User
Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Last visit: 04 Jan 2021
Posts: 35,820
Own Kudos:
Posts: 35,820
Kudos: 930
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hello from the GMAT Club BumpBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

Want to see all other topics I dig out? Follow me (click follow button on profile). You will receive a summary of all topics I bump in your profile area as well as via email.
Moderator:
Math Expert
97874 posts