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International students vs US Permanent residents (PR)

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International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 12:13
Does anybody know if the PRs compete with international students or USA citizens during the admission process ? I see a big difference in number of slots available for international students and those for the US citizens. I am really curious to know which bucket they will assign me as a PR.

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International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 13:51
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Interesting question indeed. I think you just found a loophole.

Technically you are a citizen of another country. However, you do have an SSN, credit history, and potentially even can qualify for Financial Aid through FAFSA, and when you enter the US, apply for a job or really do most things, you are grouped with the US Citizens. There is very little difference between the two indeed.

Based on my research, schools seem to treat PR's differently - some have 3 categories, some group them with Internationals and I am sure some even put permanent residents in the same category as US citizens. So the answer may shift depending on the school. However, in the majority of cases, I think you will be considered an international applicant since in rankings (e.g. US News, the delineation is specifically US Citizens vs. Foreign Nationals). This is a positive as you are a "safe" international applicant. You won't have issues with H1B or finaid.

Your advantages vs. other international applicants:
1. You can apply later and usually in the last deadline while international applicants usually are precluded due to visa from applying in the last round
2. You may be perceived as more competitive/desired applicant since you won't have the challenges of H1B crippling you after graduation
3. You can finance your education easier and borrow money from a variety of sources


P.S. Do you see less competition in the US side of things and more on the International side? If there is a school you have in mind, I would reach out to the Admissions team and ask them which category you would be considered under (probably have to give a bit of background - did you get your green card at the age of 3 or 23).
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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 15:01
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Well, bb, there are some other factors that play important roles.
Not every Permanent Resident has equal chance of getting warm welcome by schools. For example, i wear a hat like the one you described: in my late thirty as an applicant and originally from Afghanistan, my qualifications are not considered marketable and perhaps even saleable to the job market in the United States.
During last two years, i've been going to many events in New York city, not all schools treated me equally. Some universities right off the bat would say, we don't consider your qualification, and post graduate career aspiration a good fit for our universities.

All i want to say, it depends where do you come from and what is in your resume. If one comes from India and has worked in an Aerospace industry compared to another one, such as me, who only managed to survive and made progress step by step and little by little, the odd of admission is not really comparable.

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International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 15:36
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bb wrote:
Interesting question indeed. I think you just found a loophole.

Technically you are a citizen of another country. However, you do have an SSN, credit history, and potentially even can qualify for Financial Aid through FAFSA, and when you enter the US, apply for a job or really do most things, you are grouped with the US Citizens. There is very little difference between the two indeed.

Based on my research, schools seem to treat PR's differently - some have 3 categories, some group them with Internationals and I am sure some even put permanent residents in the same category as US citizens. So the answer may shift depending on the school. However, in the majority of cases, I think you will be considered an international applicant since in rankings (e.g. US News, the delineation is specifically US Citizens vs. Foreign Nationals). This is a positive as you are a "safe" international applicant. You won't have issues with H1B or finaid.

Your advantages vs. other international applicants:
1. You can apply later and usually in the last deadline while international applicants usually are precluded due to visa from applying in the last round
2. You may be perceived as more competitive/desired applicant since you won't have the challenges of H1B crippling you after graduation
3. You can finance your education easier and borrow money from a variety of sources


P.S. Do you see less competition in the US side of things and more on the International side? If there is a school you have in mind, I would reach out to the Admissions team and ask them which category you would be considered under (probably have to give a bit of background - did you get your green card at the age of 3 or 23).


Thanks BB. I just sent you a PM.

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 15:44
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Heseraj wrote:
Well, bb, there are some other factors that play important roles.
Not every Permanent Resident has equal chance of getting warm welcome by schools. For example, i wear a hat like the one you described: in my late thirty as an applicant and originally from Afghanistan, my qualifications are not considered marketable and perhaps even saleable to the job market in the United States.
During last two years, i've been going to many events in New York city, not all schools treated me equally. Some universities right off the bat would say, we don't consider your qualification, and post graduate career aspiration a good fit for our universities.

All i want to say, it depends where do you come from and what is in your resume. If one comes from India and has worked in an Aerospace industry compared to another one, such as me, who only managed to survive and made progress step by step and little by little, the odd of admission is not really comparable.



No, no, no, no.... you are mistaken my friend.... a few things:
1. Your age is an issue for FT MBA. You have a special circumstance, however, but as a rule 35 is a cut off for US Full Time programs.
2. Your background is extremely unique. It is a substantial plus. Your Afghan blood is worth a lot! There tens of thousands of Indians applying for MBA every year but only a handful of folks from Afganistan. Read this: https://gmatclub.com/forum/permanent-re ... ml#p348253
3. The whole story matters more than individual pieces. Some things can be off in your profile, like the score or your work experience in Afghanistan but there has to be signs of leadership, growth, and potential in your story. Adcoms know that a poor guy from Ghana does not have the same opportunities as a rich kid who went to Princeton for undergrad. They evaluate both of them differently. However, it all has to come into a nice well-put together package. It is OK to have flaws and issues, as long as all things are addressed.


Hope this gives you some hope and some direction to research further.
BB
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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 16:47
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bb wrote:
Heseraj wrote:
Well, bb, there are some other factors that play important roles.
Not every Permanent Resident has equal chance of getting warm welcome by schools. For example, i wear a hat like the one you described: in my late thirty as an applicant and originally from Afghanistan, my qualifications are not considered marketable and perhaps even saleable to the job market in the United States.
During last two years, i've been going to many events in New York city, not all schools treated me equally. Some universities right off the bat would say, we don't consider your qualification, and post graduate career aspiration a good fit for our universities.

All i want to say, it depends where do you come from and what is in your resume. If one comes from India and has worked in an Aerospace industry compared to another one, such as me, who only managed to survive and made progress step by step and little by little, the odd of admission is not really comparable.



No, no, no, no.... you are mistaken my friend.... a few things:
1. Your age is an issue for FT MBA. You have a special circumstance, however, but as a rule 35 is a cut off for US Full Time programs.
2. Your background is extremely unique. It is a substantial plus. Your Afghan blood is worth a lot! There tens of thousands of Indians applying for MBA every year but only a handful of folks from Afghanistan. Read this: https://gmatclub.com/forum/permanent-re ... ml#p348253
3. The whole story matters more than individual pieces. Some things can be off in your profile, like the score or your work experience in Afghanistan but there has to be signs of leadership, growth, and potential in your story. Adcoms know that a poor guy from Ghana does not have the same opportunities as a rich kid who went to Princeton for undergrad. They evaluate both of them differently. However, it all has to come into a nice well-put together package. It is OK to have flaws and issues, as long as all things are addressed.


Hope this gives you some hope and some direction to research further.
BB


Well, I have been researching a lot during last two years. I am still not quit sure which schools to fully commit too since i am still working on my GMAT score to present my case better and work on how to craft my applications, presentation and approach of communication.

Thank you very much for your words. You can see my list of targeted schools lets see what happens. I've been in communication with these schools basically by now over two years and am crafting myself up to be a good fit for their programs.

By the way, don't forget to shoot me Kudos if you think my point is worth mentioning.

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 18:00
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Whoa! 2 guys from Afghanistan!
Welcome to GMAT Club I guess. Definitely have me surprised. Good Luck this year!


Heseraj wrote:
bb wrote:
Heseraj wrote:
Well, bb, there are some other factors that play important roles.
Not every Permanent Resident has equal chance of getting warm welcome by schools. For example, i wear a hat like the one you described: in my late thirty as an applicant and originally from Afghanistan, my qualifications are not considered marketable and perhaps even saleable to the job market in the United States.
During last two years, i've been going to many events in New York city, not all schools treated me equally. Some universities right off the bat would say, we don't consider your qualification, and post graduate career aspiration a good fit for our universities.

All i want to say, it depends where do you come from and what is in your resume. If one comes from India and has worked in an Aerospace industry compared to another one, such as me, who only managed to survive and made progress step by step and little by little, the odd of admission is not really comparable.



No, no, no, no.... you are mistaken my friend.... a few things:
1. Your age is an issue for FT MBA. You have a special circumstance, however, but as a rule 35 is a cut off for US Full Time programs.
2. Your background is extremely unique. It is a substantial plus. Your Afghan blood is worth a lot! There tens of thousands of Indians applying for MBA every year but only a handful of folks from Afghanistan. Read this: https://gmatclub.com/forum/permanent-re ... ml#p348253
3. The whole story matters more than individual pieces. Some things can be off in your profile, like the score or your work experience in Afghanistan but there has to be signs of leadership, growth, and potential in your story. Adcoms know that a poor guy from Ghana does not have the same opportunities as a rich kid who went to Princeton for undergrad. They evaluate both of them differently. However, it all has to come into a nice well-put together package. It is OK to have flaws and issues, as long as all things are addressed.


Hope this gives you some hope and some direction to research further.
BB


Well, I have been researching a lot during last two years. I am still not quit sure which schools to fully commit too since i am still working on my GMAT score to present my case better and work on how to craft my applications, presentation and approach of communication.

Thank you very much for your words. You can see my list of targeted schools lets see what happens. I've been in communication with these schools basically by now over two years and am crafting myself up to be a good fit for their programs.

By the way, don't forget to shoot me Kudos if you think my point is worth mentioning.

_________________

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Just starting out with GMAT? Start here... or use our Daily Study Plan


Co-author of the GMAT Club tests

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jul 2017, 11:36
I just contacted some schools. Some of them said they will consider me as domestic and the others said that they will count me as International. I am an Indian citizen and USA green card holder. How does it affect my chances of admission if the schools count me as domestic ?

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2017, 00:19
Hi,

I have heard that as international applicants, we do not have the entire seats available to us to apply. There is only a small percentage of seats that we fight for! In view of the above, I have few questions:

1. What is the approx percentage of seats available to us.
2. Does that Average GMAT score also differ for us?

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jul 2017, 20:48
ankitnoida2018 wrote:
Hi,

I have heard that as international applicants, we do not have the entire seats available to us to apply. There is only a small percentage of seats that we fight for! In view of the above, I have few questions:

1. What is the approx percentage of seats available to us.
2. Does that Average GMAT score also differ for us?


Typically one-third of the MBA class is international. So, you compete for those seats, but then you compete only with international applicants. Second, median GMAT score can be high for certain applicant pools such as Indian, and, although GMAT score is not the only factor, it’s good to be at least around your applicant pool.
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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2017, 12:34
bb wrote:
Interesting question indeed. I think you just found a loophole.

Technically you are a citizen of another country. However, you do have an SSN, credit history, and potentially even can qualify for Financial Aid through FAFSA, and when you enter the US, apply for a job or really do most things, you are grouped with the US Citizens. There is very little difference between the two indeed.

Based on my research, schools seem to treat PR's differently - some have 3 categories, some group them with Internationals and I am sure some even put permanent residents in the same category as US citizens. So the answer may shift depending on the school. However, in the majority of cases, I think you will be considered an international applicant since in rankings (e.g. US News, the delineation is specifically US Citizens vs. Foreign Nationals). This is a positive as you are a "safe" international applicant. You won't have issues with H1B or finaid.

Your advantages vs. other international applicants:
1. You can apply later and usually in the last deadline while international applicants usually are precluded due to visa from applying in the last round
2. You may be perceived as more competitive/desired applicant since you won't have the challenges of H1B crippling you after graduation
3. You can finance your education easier and borrow money from a variety of sources


P.S. Do you see less competition in the US side of things and more on the International side? If there is a school you have in mind, I would reach out to the Admissions team and ask them which category you would be considered under (probably have to give a bit of background - did you get your green card at the age of 3 or 23).

hi, BB, thank you for explaining about this cases
so I have a question. I am permanent residents (3 years green card holder with SSN and ...) but I got my bachelor from another country (Iran), so should I apply as an international student or domestic? and do they need my GPA grade like U.S system (0-4) because mine is from 20? thanks

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2017, 14:27
nayuop wrote:
bb wrote:
Interesting question indeed. I think you just found a loophole.

Technically you are a citizen of another country. However, you do have an SSN, credit history, and potentially even can qualify for Financial Aid through FAFSA, and when you enter the US, apply for a job or really do most things, you are grouped with the US Citizens. There is very little difference between the two indeed.

Based on my research, schools seem to treat PR's differently - some have 3 categories, some group them with Internationals and I am sure some even put permanent residents in the same category as US citizens. So the answer may shift depending on the school. However, in the majority of cases, I think you will be considered an international applicant since in rankings (e.g. US News, the delineation is specifically US Citizens vs. Foreign Nationals). This is a positive as you are a "safe" international applicant. You won't have issues with H1B or finaid.

Your advantages vs. other international applicants:
1. You can apply later and usually in the last deadline while international applicants usually are precluded due to visa from applying in the last round
2. You may be perceived as more competitive/desired applicant since you won't have the challenges of H1B crippling you after graduation
3. You can finance your education easier and borrow money from a variety of sources


P.S. Do you see less competition in the US side of things and more on the International side? If there is a school you have in mind, I would reach out to the Admissions team and ask them which category you would be considered under (probably have to give a bit of background - did you get your green card at the age of 3 or 23).

hi, BB, thank you for explaining about this cases
so I have a question. I am permanent residents (3 years green card holder with SSN and ...) but I got my bachelor from another country (Iran), so should I apply as an international student or domestic? and do they need my GPA grade like U.S system (0-4) because mine is from 20? thanks


Hello
Basically your situation is like mine. I have been pursuing this MBA dream for less than three years that i am in the State.
During this time, i have visited several universities, the most important and well-known of which are GSB, Harvard, Columbia and Stern. Meanwhile, i have been attending many events here in New York and have been talking with many universities' admission staff.
That from which student group will you be considered is simple: you are considered a domestic student, Period. However, the problem arises with your education qualification. If your documentation is in English you need to talk with your targeted universities and explain your case, exactly what i did, and ask for guidance. Different universities normally respond differently to inquires such as yours. The least of which is that they will ask you to evaluate your degree and will probably address you to WES, ECE and some other companies whose main functions is assessing credentials acquired abroad.
Also, universities have web pages that basically explain situation such as yours and address the applicants what they need to do.
What do you need to do is however is to first create your plan of action, choose your universities, search their web pages and if your situation is not addressed by information provided on the web page, contact the admission office of that specific university and asked for guidance and help.

Meanwhile, If interested, since we both speak Farsi, though from two different countries, i will be pleased to share my experience with you and learn from yours.

All the best with you plan and sorry if i stepped in.

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2017, 15:06
Heseraj wrote:
nayuop wrote:
bb wrote:
Interesting question indeed. I think you just found a loophole.

Technically you are a citizen of another country. However, you do have an SSN, credit history, and potentially even can qualify for Financial Aid through FAFSA, and when you enter the US, apply for a job or really do most things, you are grouped with the US Citizens. There is very little difference between the two indeed.

Based on my research, schools seem to treat PR's differently - some have 3 categories, some group them with Internationals and I am sure some even put permanent residents in the same category as US citizens. So the answer may shift depending on the school. However, in the majority of cases, I think you will be considered an international applicant since in rankings (e.g. US News, the delineation is specifically US Citizens vs. Foreign Nationals). This is a positive as you are a "safe" international applicant. You won't have issues with H1B or finaid.

Your advantages vs. other international applicants:
1. You can apply later and usually in the last deadline while international applicants usually are precluded due to visa from applying in the last round
2. You may be perceived as more competitive/desired applicant since you won't have the challenges of H1B crippling you after graduation
3. You can finance your education easier and borrow money from a variety of sources


P.S. Do you see less competition in the US side of things and more on the International side? If there is a school you have in mind, I would reach out to the Admissions team and ask them which category you would be considered under (probably have to give a bit of background - did you get your green card at the age of 3 or 23).

hi, BB, thank you for explaining about this cases
so I have a question. I am permanent residents (3 years green card holder with SSN and ...) but I got my bachelor from another country (Iran), so should I apply as an international student or domestic? and do they need my GPA grade like U.S system (0-4) because mine is from 20? thanks


Hello
Basically your situation is like mine. I have been pursuing this MBA dream for less than three years that i am in the State.
During this time, i have visited several universities, the most important and well-known of which are GSB, Harvard, Columbia and Stern. Meanwhile, i have been attending many events here in New York and have been talking with many universities' admission staff.
That from which student group will you be considered is simple: you are considered a domestic student, Period. However, the problem arises with your education qualification. If your documentation is in English you need to talk with your targeted universities and explain your case, exactly what i did, and ask for guidance. Different universities normally respond differently to inquires such as yours. The least of which is that they will ask you to evaluate your degree and will probably address you to WES, ECE and some other companies whose main functions is assessing credentials acquired abroad.
Also, universities have web pages that basically explain situation such as yours and address the applicants what they need to do.
What do you need to do is however is to first create your plan of action, choose your universities, search their web pages and if your situation is not addressed by information provided on the web page, contact the admission office of that specific university and asked for guidance and help.

Meanwhile, If interested, since we both speak Farsi, though from two different countries, i will be pleased to share my experience with you and learn from yours.

All the best with you plan and sorry if i stepped in.

hello heseraj . first of all, thank you for very good explanation. so now I know I should apply as a domestic applicant. I will send you PM and I'm so glad for finding a friend in same as mine situation. so we can help each other through this

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2017, 15:25
Welcome.
Just let you know that i am deeply drained with applications that would drown me if i don't act timely.
I don't know where do you stand with respect with your application but i will be happy if we could have chat or two to get a better understanding of our current status.

All the best.

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Re: International students vs US Permanent residents (PR)   [#permalink] 19 Sep 2017, 15:25
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