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Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants

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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Jun 2020, 07:18
Queen's Smith School of Business , Ivey Business School or HEC Montreal?
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Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2020, 06:06
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Hi totoma97,
If you've been accepted into any of these schools. Congratulations. They're great Canadian business schools, which will provide you a great number of opportunities to pursue after you finish your school.

I can speak about Queen and Ivey because I did my MBA at Ivey and have quite a few friends who did their MBA at Queens. I also visited Queen's and was accepted there as well. HEC is also a good school, although I don't have as much experience with it.

Ivey:
Ivey is considered one of the best business schools in Canada, and very well regarded. It has the most alumni in C-Suite positions out of all the business school. However that is not the only metric to evaluate a business school. At our graduation, Dave McKay (CEO and President of RBC - the largest bank in Canada) spoke to us. Bill Morneau who is the Finance Minister of Canada (appointed by PM Justin Trudeau) is an alumni of Ivey (undergrad). Charles Sousa the former finance minister in Ontario is an Ivey grad. Kevin O Leary (who often appears on Shark Tank as Mr. Wonderful although quite embarrassing at times with his style of deal making) did his MBA there. Just to name a few.

Here is a list of recent Ivey Grads from Ivey's website. You can see the make up of a class and demographics:
https://www.ivey.uwo.ca/mba/student-lif ... graduates/

Few other positives about Ivey is that it is a tight knit community. Small cohort. Ivey uses the case method which helps you prepare for Cases in consulting interviews. It has a great number of clubs. It is located 2 hours away from Toronto. Which can be challenging at times, but its a great mix between able to join your MBA away from distractions and being able to go to interviews and coffee chats when necessary. Class discussions are engaging, the quality of cases is quite high. Its career centre is considered one of the best in the country. Also, surprisingly Ivey is the 2nd largest publisher of cases behind Harvard. It publishes a lot so you get to learn from professors writing the cases.

Cons:
Too much focus on Consulting and not enough on Technology. There are no electives focusing on FinTech or Blockchain or AI. Great electives for consulting (Strategy), marketing, finance, operations).
Its a one year MBA, so it is intense and there's no time for slack. Also more pressure in term of career management.
Your contributions in class are graded and can sometimes be frustrating in the first few weeks when you're trying to be heard and impacts your grades, which some recruiters look at.
There are no great options to live near campus so most of the class lives 15-20 mins away in Downtown.
They have recently increased the class size by 20%-30%. Means fewer career management resources for each person.
No name recognition outside of Canada. Same applies for Queen's. However HEC has a much more name recognition because of HEC Paris.
Lack of options for exchange (Esade, NUS, Bocconi (not SDA).... I went to ESADE in Barcelona Spain which was great however because of the 1 year format, you can't quite take advantage of the exchange option - for most not an option. Queens might have an option to do at Cornell, which might be great. Look at these. Ivey had some incoming exchange students from Esade, Indian School of Business, NUS i think.... But When I was at Esade, I learned that they had the option to do exchange at Wharton (although 1-2 spots), which would've been incredible if Ivey offered it. Neither Queen nor Ivey are great in this regard.

Queen:
Great business school. Lots of notable alumni. One of the most respected business schools in Canada and very well regarded. Lots of alumni is C-suite positions.
Has a QUAAF fund, which students interested in Finance can run. Ivey lack this option - although it has a solid Value Investing Centre but no fund.
Option to combine the MBA with an Analytics degree. Which I imagine, would make it much easier for an international student to get a job.
Has an option to do a Sustainability Certificate for those interested in pursuing this option. Can extend your MBA for 3 months I believe, so you don't have to finish school in Dec.
Smaller class compared to Ivey. Which has both pros and cons. Means fewer alumni to reach out to, but that means you also have less competition.
Lower tuition. Slightly lower cost of living than in London, since Kingston is smaller and very much a University town. Lots of options to live nearby.

A lot of a things that apply to Ivey apply to Queen as well:
One year, intense experience. No internship. Small tight-knit community.
It places a lot of its student in large Canadian banks and Consulting firms.
Ivey has a slight edge in consulting because of its case method. However you would have similar opportunities to make it at large firms from both schools.
It starts in Jan as opposed to March for Ivey. So finishing school in April (Ivey) is better finishing in Dec/Jan - which makes it harder to network.

It all depends on which culture you prefer and the type of network you want to be associated with. I don't think you can go wrong with Ivey or Queen's if you're planning on living in Canada.

HEC Montreal is in Quebec. Hence it is in a completely different category. I think if you want to live in Quebec (Montreal), it might be a great option. I haven't come across a lot of HEC Montreal grads over the years. HEC Montreal has big competition in McGill (Desautels - B School). Which is widely considered one of the best schools in Canada. So HEC would be at a slight disadvantage to McGill students because it has a very strong brand and recruiter would give preference to those students.

I would say seriously look at Ivey/Queen as both are great options if you want to live in Toronto (financial hub and 2nd biggest financial district in North America after NYC). If you want to live in Quebec, give HEC Montreal a serious thought.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!
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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2020, 14:49
jkolachi wrote:
Hi totoma97,
If you've been accepted into any of these schools. Congratulations. They're great Canadian business schools, which will provide you a great number of opportunities to pursue after you finish your school.

I can speak about Queen and Ivey because I did my MBA at Ivey and have quite a few friends who did their MBA at Queens. I also visited Queen's and was accepted there as well. HEC is also a good school, although I don't have as much experience with it.

Ivey:
Ivey is considered one of the best business schools in Canada, and very well regarded. It has the most alumni in C-Suite positions out of all the business school. However that is not the only metric to evaluate a business school. At our graduation, Dave McKay (CEO and President of RBC - the largest bank in Canada) spoke to us. Bill Morneau who is the Finance Minister of Canada (appointed by PM Justin Trudeau) is an alumni of Ivey (undergrad). Charles Sousa the former finance minister in Ontario is an Ivey grad. Kevin O Leary (who often appears on Shark Tank as Mr. Wonderful although quite embarrassing at times with his style of deal making) did his MBA there. Just to name a few.

Here is a list of recent Ivey Grads from Ivey's website. You can see the make up of a class and demographics:
https://www.ivey.uwo.ca/mba/student-lif ... graduates/

Few other positives about Ivey is that it is a tight knit community. Small cohort. Ivey uses the case method which helps you prepare for Cases in consulting interviews. It has a great number of clubs. It is located 2 hours away from Toronto. Which can be challenging at times, but its a great mix between able to join your MBA away from distractions and being able to go to interviews and coffee chats when necessary. Class discussions are engaging, the quality of cases is quite high. Its career centre is considered one of the best in the country. Also, surprisingly Ivey is the 2nd largest publisher of cases behind Harvard. It publishes a lot so you get to learn from professors writing the cases.

Cons:
Too much focus on Consulting and not enough on Technology. There are no electives focusing on FinTech or Blockchain or AI. Great electives for consulting (Strategy), marketing, finance, operations).
Its a one year MBA, so it is intense and there's no time for slack. Also more pressure in term of career management.
Your contributions in class are graded and can sometimes be frustrating in the first few weeks when you're trying to be heard and impacts your grades, which some recruiters look at.
There are no great options to live near campus so most of the class lives 15-20 mins away in Downtown.
They have recently increased the class size by 20%-30%. Means fewer career management resources for each person.
No name recognition outside of Canada. Same applies for Queen's. However HEC has a much more name recognition because of HEC Paris.
Lack of options for exchange (Esade, NUS, Bocconi (not SDA).... I went to ESADE in Barcelona Spain which was great however because of the 1 year format, you can't quite take advantage of the exchange option - for most not an option. Queens might have an option to do at Cornell, which might be great. Look at these. Ivey had some incoming exchange students from Esade, Indian School of Business, NUS i think.... But When I was at Esade, I learned that they had the option to do exchange at Wharton (although 1-2 spots), which would've been incredible if Ivey offered it. Neither Queen nor Ivey are great in this regard.

Queen:
Great business school. Lots of notable alumni. One of the most respected business schools in Canada and very well regarded. Lots of alumni is C-suite positions.
Has a QUAAF fund, which students interested in Finance can run. Ivey lack this option - although it has a solid Value Investing Centre but no fund.
Option to combine the MBA with an Analytics degree. Which I imagine, would make it much easier for an international student to get a job.
Has an option to do a Sustainability Certificate for those interested in pursuing this option. Can extend your MBA for 3 months I believe, so you don't have to finish school in Dec.
Smaller class compared to Ivey. Which has both pros and cons. Means fewer alumni to reach out to, but that means you also have less competition.
Lower tuition. Slightly lower cost of living than in London, since Kingston is smaller and very much a University town. Lots of options to live nearby.

A lot of a things that apply to Ivey apply to Queen as well:
One year, intense experience. No internship. Small tight-knit community.
It places a lot of its student in large Canadian banks and Consulting firms.
Ivey has a slight edge in consulting because of its case method. However you would have similar opportunities to make it at large firms from both schools.
It starts in Jan as opposed to March for Ivey. So finishing school in April (Ivey) is better finishing in Dec/Jan - which makes it harder to network.

It all depends on which culture you prefer and the type of network you want to be associated with. I don't think you can go wrong with Ivey or Queen's if you're planning on living in Canada.

HEC Montreal is in Quebec. Hence it is in a completely different category. I think if you want to live in Quebec (Montreal), it might be a great option. I haven't come across a lot of HEC Montreal grads over the years. HEC Montreal has big competition in McGill (Desautels - B School). Which is widely considered one of the best schools in Canada. So HEC would be at a slight disadvantage to McGill students because it has a very strong brand and recruiter would give preference to those students.

I would say seriously look at Ivey/Queen as both are great options if you want to live in Toronto (financial hub and 2nd biggest financial district in North America after NYC). If you want to live in Quebec, give HEC Montreal a serious thought.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!


Hello
Thank you for sharing your views on the Canadian schools,
1. Could you shed some light on the Schulich Business School, York University and
2. As McGill is in Quebec, which is a French dominated city, is it necessary or recommended to know French if one intends to apply for this school?
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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jun 2020, 02:08
Thank you so much!!
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Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 06:39
Hi All,

I just want to share my experience with my dream school (Ivey) application. I am a mid-level manager for one of the largest asset management company in Canada with over 8 years work experience and 5 years management experience.
As a former Western Undergrad, Ivey is my top choice to pursue my post graduate degree. Since i am still at work, the Accelerated MBA program is the right fit for me.

I did not have a good GPA (70%/B in my last 2 years of my study)
I applied for the GMAT waiver which was denied and after they reviewed my application they set a condition of minimum 600 GMAT score.
I did my interview with the Associate Director, and though out the process i was praised for my work experience and career success. The interviewer thinks I can bring my wealth of real world experience to the class and lead the class discussion.
After my formal interview, I completed the online GMAT test and was able to score 610 on my first try and submitted my score to the school.

Few days later, i received a rejection letter from J.D that I was not competitive as other candidates.
I schedule a call with J.D to discuss my application and he said the reason for my rejection is due to lack of work experience, as it is not as competitive compare to other candidates and ensure me it is due to my academics or GMAT.
I asked about re-applicant process, he said i had to wait for 1 year and i would need major change in my career to qualify again. (i.e promotion (director is my next level), take on a big project and boost my GMAT score to 680 range)

Because Ivey is my only school of choice, after my rejection i started look into other schools and i reached out to the executive directors at Queens & Rotman. They think based on my work experience i should apply to their EMBA program.

Can anyone suggest what could happend so i don't make the same mistake again in the future application.
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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 09:35
Hey Jack,
Sorry to hear about your experience. I had a classmate who was came in as a Director from a large asset management company (with approx 8 years of experience). Luckily for him, he landed a great role after the MBA. His GMAT score was also close to 700. However many of the mba applicants/candidates are not quite at the Senior Manager/Director level. One reason for the rejection may be that they may be concerned about your post-grad expectations and opportunities. Its possible that the MBA might in fact end up being a liability for candidates like yourself - that is if you don't land at the right place. Which means unhappy alumni, which is something they don't want to deal with. The opportunity cost for the MBA is alot higher for someone like yourself compared to someone with 2-4 years of experience. Which is the sweet spot for most candidates. I went it with about 4 years.

It seems you've got excellent experience. You need to know exactly what you want after the MBA and give it another shot. There's no reason why you can't get one if you really want one. But you've got to do a cost benefit analysis and have that conversation with JD. If you don't, schools might start asking questions about whether the mba is right for you and reject you on that basis.

Cheers
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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 10:00
jkolachi wrote:
Hey Jack,
Sorry to hear about your experience. I had a classmate who was came in as a Director from a large asset management company (with approx 8 years of experience). Luckily for him, he landed a great role after the MBA. His GMAT score was also close to 700. However many of the mba applicants/candidates are not quite at the Senior Manager/Director level. One reason for the rejection may be that they may be concerned about your post-grad expectations and opportunities. Its possible that the MBA might in fact end up being a liability for candidates like yourself - that is if you don't land at the right place. Which means unhappy alumni, which is something they don't want to deal with. The opportunity cost for the MBA is alot higher for someone like yourself compared to someone with 2-4 years of experience. Which is the sweet spot for most candidates. I went it with about 4 years.

It seems you've got excellent experience. You need to know exactly what you want after the MBA and give it another shot. There's no reason why you can't get one if you really want one. But you've got to do a cost benefit analysis and have that conversation with JD. If you don't, schools might start asking questions about whether the mba is right for you and reject you on that basis.

Cheers


Hi JKolachi,

Thanks for your insight. On my application essay, I already indicate that there is a potential director level position waiting for me within the next 2 years from my current company.
I could utilize my MBA experience to boost my decision making skills, which i believe Ivey is the best school in Canada to prepare me for that skill.

I have full support from my department VP (my direct manager) to pursue my MBA and she thinks that MBA will truly help me in my career.

My only concern is that i might not have a strong reference and i might change someone else to complete my reference for future application
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Re: Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 12:12
Hi jackman19,

Was there like a huge difference in terms of months between the time you received the initial target GMAT score from Ivey, and the time you submitted that GMAT score?

The reason I ask is that sometimes when you receive the initial assessment, the batch is still young and it's early rounds. Later on, it gets filled with really competitive profiles, and so the assessment may not stand valid.

Also, I would say concentrate on what JD said. Improve your score as well as work ex. They liked it at first which means it is still noteworthy.

All the best.

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 12:46
Hi Angrybird,

Sorry i am a new member and unable to quote you within 5 days.
Here is the timeline of my application

May 18 - Received invitation to apply on Linkedin from J.D
May 19 - Received feedback for Preliminary assessment
May 30 - Submitted my application
June 3rd- Invited for interview and notified i need GMAT score of 600 based on my application
June 8th - Interview
June 9th- GMAT Exam and submitted my score on June 11th.
June 17th - Received rejection letter
June 9 - Did my GMAT and submitted

I only have less than 3 weeks to study for my GMAT and i can only do it once before June 15th GMAT deadline.

If it was an academic issue i was hoping they would give me another chance to re-do my GMAT or set my minimum requirement higher than 600.
I believe my work experience already qualified in the upper end of the class and my next title would be Director role. Which I think it would be more match for EMBA than MBA program.
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Ivey(Ontario) Class of 2021(March 2020 intake): Calling all Applicants   [#permalink] 20 Jun 2020, 12:46

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