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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 14 Feb 2017, 12:09
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Mo2men
Dear Mike,
Thanks for help and support as usual :)

Actually I hoped you can shed some light on the following grammar construction in choice C:

In less than..........since African honeybees had been released................ had migrated

As far as I learned, what comes after 'since' is 'Past simple' or 'certain points such as: month, year..etc' NOT 'past prefect', especially that the main clause of the sentence has 'past prefect'.

Can you help clarify please??
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Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

The subordinate conjunction "since" helps to establish a time order, so this makes it less likely that the verb in that clause would be in the past perfect. I wouldn't make a 100% black/white rule out of this, but it certainly is a tendency.

In this question, curiously, the main verb is in the past perfect. Presumably this is because of what is happening in the tenses of other sentences around this sentence in whatever the original source might be. The GMAT really doesn't give us any rules for how to deal with this unusual situation--if the main clause has a past perfect verb, how do we show that another action in a subordinate clause is earlier? Notice that the GMAT sidesteps this entire issue in the OA, which involves a prepositional phrase rather than a subordinate clause.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 25 Feb 2017, 14:18
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Hi All,
I have a very basic doubt regarding the antecedent of pronoun "their ". We donot have any clear antecedent subject for their. I mean what we have is "the release of African honeybees", can African honeybees work as antecedent of their ?

I know its a very basic question but please respond.

Thanks in advance.
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 27 Feb 2017, 11:09
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shalabhg27
Hi All,
I have a very basic doubt regarding the antecedent of pronoun "their ". We donot have any clear antecedent subject for their. I mean what we have is "the release of African honeybees", can African honeybees work as antecedent of their ?

I know its a very basic question but please respond.

Thanks in advance.
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Dear shalabhg27,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

Here's the OA version, (A):
Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as Southern Texas.

The antecedent of "their" is "African honeybees." It doesn't matter at all that the antecedent was the object of a preposition.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 14 May 2017, 17:38
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sandipchowdhury
Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendents, popular known as killer bees had migrated as far north as Southern Texas.

A. Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
B. In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
C. In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
D. It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when
E. It took less than 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then
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"Less than 35 years" is just a modifier introducing the situation.

The sequence is:

* 35 years ago, some bees were released
* Over the next 35 years, the bees move north
* And now those bees are in Texas

Answer : A
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 15 May 2017, 02:30
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when

E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then




please give KUDOS :)
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In the correct choice, Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,, I believe the clause should start with in as in option B. Without the in, the opening modifier doesn't seem to appropriately modify their descendents
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 02 Aug 2017, 04:12
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Can somebody please explain why "had migrated" is used here and , what is the sequence of events. According to MGMAT "had" is used only when you want to denote an action or event occurred prior to some past event.
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 02 Aug 2017, 05:14
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Can somebody please explain why "had migrated" is used here and , what is the sequence of events. According to MGMAT "had" is used only when you want to denote an action or event occurred prior to some past event.
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Hi onkargm ,

I think you misread something here.

There are two uses of 'had'.

1. Used to denote an earlier action out of two actions in the past.
2. Simple past usage.

Here, in this question, the sentence is talking about the past event and its the simple past usage and not the one you are thinking.

It is saying: Their descendants had migrated as far north as southern Texas. --> Simple Past usage.

Does that make sense?
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 03 Jun 2018, 02:58
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GMATNinja egmat VeritasPrepKarishma

Is the opening phrase which includes - the release of - a modifier?
Is release treated as a noun or verb?
What is the earlier event that precedes -had migrated - in OA ?

I have clear verbs - took and were released - in (E) but even then we discarded it.Can you share the PoE?
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 16 Aug 2018, 03:12
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adkikani
GMATNinja egmat VeritasPrepKarishma

Is the opening phrase which includes - the release of - a modifier?
Is release treated as a noun or verb?
What is the earlier event that precedes -had migrated - in OA ?

I have clear verbs - took and were released - in (E) but even then we discarded it.Can you share the PoE?
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Note the use of "the" before release. You cannot use an article before a verb. Release is a noun here.

The verb "had migrated" is in past perfect but here is the point - it is not underlined so we don't have to worry about it. Perhaps the sentences before or after it use simple past and here past perfect gives the context - for example, five years later, they were found in Louisiana too.

Mind you, past perfect often has a later event (not earlier as you mentioned) in simple past though it is not necessary. Check here: https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2015/0 ... questions/
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Updated on: 16 Aug 2018, 06:46
Originally posted by daagh on 16 Aug 2018, 06:31.
Last edited by daagh on 16 Aug 2018, 06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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The problem with D is the use of the conjunction 'when'. We don't use 'when' to denote a 35-year span. When as a conjunction is used to pinpoint a specific point of time. If we ascribe 'when' to the entire period, then we are in effect saying that the bees had migrated at the beginning of 35 years, had completed the migration yet again in the middle of the course, and then finally had migrated at the end of the specified 35-year stint.
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 13 Dec 2018, 07:48
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Can a pronoun point to a noun in a prepositional phrase?
For option (A), the main subject noun is "the release". I struck off (A) as the correct answer because I thought there is only a possible antecedent, which is "the release", but it does not match up with "their".

Your help would be greatly appreciated!
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 13 Dec 2018, 08:19
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Yes,it can If you understand the meaning of the sentence, 'their' has only one logical antecedent i.e 'honeybees'. Pronoun ambiguity should be last thing that you should consider to rule out any choice.

Thanks
Please press kudos if my response helped you in any way

bottlebattle
Can a pronoun point to a noun in a prepositional phrase?
For option (A), the main subject noun is "the release". I struck off (A) as the correct answer because I thought there is only a possible antecedent, which is "the release", but it does not match up with "their".

Your help would be greatly appreciated!
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 26 Jul 2019, 15:54
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Time-traveling bees will be mentioned in this post. You've been warned.

Quote:
1) First of all, I could not understand the difference between Less than and In less than split in the question. The first one sounded weird, that's why I ended up choosing Answer B.
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First, we never want to eliminate an answer choice because it sounds weird! More on that in this article and this video.

The distinction here is one of meaning and tense. If I begin a sentence with "In less than 35 years," the expectation is that I'll follow this modifier with an action in the future. For example, "In less than 35 years, Tim hopes to be retired and living on a houseboat off the coast of Spain." Tim's not retired yet, but in the future, presumably, he will be.

In this problem, we're talking about a past event, so "in less than" is inappropriate. However, if we get rid of the "in" we can coherently describe a past action. For example, "Less than 5 years after she learned to walk, Tanya began demanding an iPad with better memory and a phone plan with unlimited data." Here, Tanya's demands are in the past, but they're after another action in the past -- when she learned to walk.

Quote:
2) Because of the usage of "had" in the underlined portion of the sentence, it appears that migration happened before the release of African honeybees. The point is, I'm unable to visualize the events on a timeline.
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Excellent question! In effect, there are three time markers in this sentence. 1) When the bees were released; 2) 35 years after the bees were released; and 3) when the bees migrated to Southern Texas. We use the past perfect "had" for action #3 because it took place before time #2, which is also in the past. Put another way, imagine that the bees were released in 1900. We know that they had migrated to Texas before 1935, which is also in the past.

Quote:
3) Why exactly is the usage of since in the answer choices incorrect? - since releasing African honeybees - seems to be at a certain point in time [ since a specific event ] .
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Take another look at the entire phrase you're referring to:

    "In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants..."

If you're willing to overlook the problem with the phrase "in less than 35 years," (and you shouldn't be!) there's also a modification error here. It sounds as though "releasing" is modifying "their descendants," meaning that the descendants of the bees somehow released their own ancestors! If someone wants to make a sci-fi movie about time-traveling bees that journey into the past to save their older relatives, I will certainly watch this movie, but on the GMAT, this is considered illogical, so (B) is wrong.

I hope that helps!
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 14 Mar 2020, 09:15
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sandipchowdhury


(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

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IMHO B is incorrect because since releasing is (or could be confused as) a NOUN MODIFIER.

In this sense, whenever we have a SUBORDINATOR + PARTICIPLE (either past or present), we are building a noun modifier - even though, in some cases, it could also be a verb modifier.


Example:

Although exhausted, JOE wanted to keep on playing. -------> "although exhausted" here needs "JOE" to make sense, and therefore needs to be next to that noun.



In conclusion, the "since releasing" phrase is touching "their descendants", and is incorrect because the descendants could not have released the older honeybees.



Rod,
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 21 Jan 2021, 02:00
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendents, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as Southern Texas.

(A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, Correct answer - no apparent errors.

(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, "since releasing..." incorrectly modifies "their descendents...", absurdly implying that the descendents released the bees. Eliminate.

(C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, "the 35 years" implies that the present is 35 years since the release of honeybees. This is not the original meaning of the sentence. Also, if this is so, then usage of past perfect "had migrated" is incorrect. Eliminate.

(D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when "when..." implies that the descendents' migration occurred simultaneously with the release of the honeybees, which is illogical. Eliminate.

(E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then "after the time that African honeybees were released" is too wordy. Also, "and then" + past participle is incorrect. Eliminate.

Hope this helps.
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 10 Jun 2021, 09:45
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sandipchowdhury
Source : GMATPrep Default Exam Pack

Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendents, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as Southern Texas.


(A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when

(E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then
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Migration had happened before "less than 35 years" passed. With this logic, past perfect makes sense
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 22 Jun 2021, 21:45
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GMATNinja There is just one event in this sentence and still past perfect tense is being used. Why? Is there an exception to the rule of the usage of past perfect?

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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 23 Jun 2021, 15:24
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gagan0303
GMATNinja There is just one event in this sentence and still past perfect tense is being used. Why? Is there an exception to the rule of the usage of past perfect?

Gagan
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The past perfect is used to designate something that happened in the past before something else in the past. That something else could be an action. But it could also be a date.

For example:

    "By 2010, Tim had broken every bone in his body."

There are two elements in the past in this sentence. There's the date, 2010. And before that, Tim broke all of his bones. Because the action is taking place before something else in the past, the past perfect is appropriate, even through there's only one action here.

To see how it applies on this SC problem, try taking another look at our response to the second question here.

I hope that helps!
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 14 Aug 2021, 03:33
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in choice A, "less than ..." show a point of time. had done need a point of time, show choice A is good.

in choice B , "in less than..." show a period. past perfect dont need a period to be used. this is wrong

but there is a thing. "in" can go with past perfect in many problems in gmatprep pack.

in 2020, I had passed gmat. (this sentence is similar to our problem in that a point of time is given for past perfect)
by 2020, I had passed gmat

both above sentences are correct.
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Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao 31 Oct 2021, 06:45
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what is better: in less than 35 years after..... or less than 35 years since the release of...?
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