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egmat
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li Updated on: 22 Jan 2023, 20:32
Originally posted by egmat on 12 Dec 2022, 23:07.
Last edited by egmat on 22 Jan 2023, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
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TheUltimateWinner

Quote:
To err is human
egmat
I'm known to this sentence from my childhood. I thought the subject is ''human'' as the sentence is in ''inverted'' position where the subject is backward and the verb is followed by a subject.
Show more

Hey TheUltimateWinner

You're welcome.

That's the risk of learning grammar without understanding the meaning of each grammatical structure. The word "human" is an adjective here not a noun: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... _1?q=human

So, even if you were to invert the sentence "To err is human", "human" would still remain an adjective. Besides, the sentence won't make any sense if you take "human" to be a noun. How can a human being be "to err"? What does that mean?

"To err is human" means it's okay to make mistakes. Humans are not perfect. So, if you're human, you will make mistakes.

I hope you understand the meaning of this sentence now.

Happy Learning! :)
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 16 Dec 2022, 08:04
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DmitryFarber
rheachandra One problem with D is that it uses the past perfect ("had agreed") inappropriately. To use the past perfect, we need to have another past event that the action we're describing clearly precedes.
Show more

Hi DmitryFarber egmat AndrewN RonTargetTestPrep - I dont see why "had agreed" in (d) is wrong

dont we have 2 events in the past ?

Event (I) happens LOGICALLY BEFORE Event (II)

------------------------------------

(Event I) The firm had agreed to last year : this event took place earlier (The firm HAD AGREED to do something first)

(Event II) To proceed (without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations) would surely have proven disastrous -

The presence of "have proven" is present perfect ... Present perfect is used about events in the past that continue into the present or events in the past that finished in the past (but have some impact on today) ..


Event (II) happens AFTER (Event 1)

----------------------------

Hence i thought - usage of past perfect in (d) was not only appropriate but actually needed !
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 21 Dec 2022, 01:02
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Bunuel
Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster in the face of the skilled and resolute opposition involved this time.


A. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster

B. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm agreed last year to do, would surely have proven to be a disaster

C. Going ahead without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed last year to do, would surely have proven disastrous

D. To proceed without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm had agreed to last year, would surely have proven disastrous

E. Going ahead without their having a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as they agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster for the firm



SC89941.01
Verbal Review 2020 NEW QUESTION
Show more

My explanation of the above question -

Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster in the face of the skilled and resolute opposition involved this time.

Firstly, the word "like" and "had agreed".

"Like" usuage in GMAT is pretty uncommon for correct answers. It not 100% proof but we can eliminate choices based on some other triggers.

"Had Agreed" is not appropriate with "last year". It is incorrect to say "I had agreed to join gym last month". So on that we can eliminate option A.

Option B for now seems all Ok!

Option C, Same issue as Option A. C is out.

Option D "Had Agreed". This is not correct usage here. Hence D is out.

Option E, "Their", "They"... Pronoun Issue. We can eliminate E.

Hence, B is the correct choice.
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 21 Dec 2022, 15:10
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jabhatta2
DmitryFarber
rheachandra One problem with D is that it uses the past perfect ("had agreed") inappropriately. To use the past perfect, we need to have another past event that the action we're describing clearly precedes.

Hi DmitryFarber egmat AndrewN RonTargetTestPrep - I dont see why "had agreed" in (d) is wrong

dont we have 2 events in the past ?

Event (I) happens LOGICALLY BEFORE Event (II)

------------------------------------

(Event I) The firm had agreed to last year : this event took place earlier (The firm HAD AGREED to do something first)

(Event II) To proceed (without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations) would surely have proven disastrous -

The presence of "have proven" is present perfect ... Present perfect is used about events in the past that continue into the present or events in the past that finished in the past (but have some impact on today) ..


Event (II) happens AFTER (Event 1)

----------------------------

Hence i thought - usage of past perfect in (d) was not only appropriate but actually needed !
Show more


Hello jabhatta2,

Thank you for the question. I will be glad to help you with this one. :)

Let's first understand why we use the past perfect tense in a sentence, especially in the realm of GMAT SC. Using the past perfect tense along with a simple past tense presents sequencing between two past events. The sequencing is presented between not just any two past events. These two past events must be related to each other - the earlier past event must have some bearing or effect on the latter event. If the earlier event has no bearing on the latter event, then the use of the past perfect tense verb is deemed incorrect even if the sentence presents two past events.

Now, let's analyze the validity of the usage of the past perfect tense verb in this official sentence.

Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster in the face of the skilled and resolute opposition involved this time.

The use of the past perfect tense is not correct in the context of the sentence because the decision taken last year has no bearing on the events of the current year. The firm agreed to proceed without a definite plan last year, and it probably faced the consequences. This year it did not do so. So, they did not face a disaster. So, the events of the last year have no bearing on the events of the present year. The sentence mentions the event of the past year just for comparison. So, the use of the past perfect tense verb is incorrect in the context of this sentence.


Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 21 Dec 2022, 23:26
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jabhatta2

dont we have 2 events in the past ?

Event (I) happens LOGICALLY BEFORE Event (II)
Show more
Hope you realized that proceeding is used as a gerund here, and not as a present participle.

So, it's like this:

Starting GMAT preparation last year would not have been a prudent decision.

Again, "starting" is used as a gerund (noun form) and hopefully it is now easy for you to see that past perfect really doesn't have any role to play here.
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li Updated on: 28 Dec 2022, 15:47
Originally posted by jabhatta2 on 22 Dec 2022, 07:10.
Last edited by jabhatta2 on 28 Dec 2022, 15:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Hi experts DmitryFarber egmat GMATNinja EducationAisle IanStewart AndrewN MartyTargetTestPrep – wanted to understand the tense of (D)

I know the following simple sentences are present perfect.. The present perfect is used when an ongoing action starts in the past and continues to the present tense or starts and finish in the past but has some effect on the present tense

Quote:

She has been good | She has proven usefull
They have been good | They have prooven usefull.
Show more

Now, if you add ‘would’, does it now become – hypothetical / conditional present perfect tense?

Quote:

She would have been good | She would have proven usefull
They would have been good | They would have prooven usefull.
Show more

In this conditional / hypothetical present perfect tense ?

Does the tense imply that -- this hypothetical / conditional state would have begun in the past and would have had some effect on the present tense [assuming the condition/hypothetical state turned out to be actual]

Is that how this tense works ?
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 28 Dec 2022, 07:30
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Quote:
Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster in the face of the skilled and resolute opposition involved this time.


A. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster

B. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm agreed last year to do, would surely have proven to be a disaster

C. Going ahead without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed last year to do, would surely have proven disastrous

D. To proceed without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm had agreed to last year, would surely have proven disastrous

E. Going ahead without their having a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as they agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster for the firm
Show more

Hello AjiteshArun ,

I am confused about the usage of the word SURELY with WOULD
Would refers to HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION , whereas SURELY refers to CONFORMITY. ( Both are contradictory)

What is the meaning of would surely have proven to be a disaster ?

How can we use HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION and CONFORMITY both together ?

Below is an example of OG in which WRONG OPTION D uses AS and WOULD together.
This usage is wrong because "AS" indicates simultaneity of events whereas "would become" indicates hypothetical situation .

Quote:
At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that there were about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available.


(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available

(B) online and expect the increase of piracy with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(C) online, and they expect more piracy to increase with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available
Show more
Since AS and WOULD both have contradictory meaning OPTION D is wrong . ( Moreover, OPTION D doesnot go with the intended meaning also)

Regards
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 28 Dec 2022, 15:34
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GMATTarget720plus
Quote:
Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster in the face of the skilled and resolute opposition involved this time.


A. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster

B. Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm agreed last year to do, would surely have proven to be a disaster

C. Going ahead without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, like the firm had agreed last year to do, would surely have proven disastrous

D. To proceed without the presence of a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as the firm had agreed to last year, would surely have proven disastrous

E. Going ahead without their having a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, as they agreed to last year, it would surely have proven to be a disaster for the firm

Hello AjiteshArun ,

I am confused about the usage of the word SURELY with WOULD
Would refers to HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION , whereas SURELY refers to CONFORMITY. ( Both are contradictory)

What is the meaning of would surely have proven to be a disaster ?

How can we use HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION and CONFORMITY both together ?

Below is an example of OG in which WRONG OPTION D uses AS and WOULD together.
This usage is wrong because "AS" indicates simultaneity of events whereas "would become" indicates hypothetical situation .

Quote:
At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that there were about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available.


(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available

(B) online and expect the increase of piracy with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(C) online, and they expect more piracy to increase with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available
Since AS and WOULD both have contradictory meaning OPTION D is wrong . ( Moreover, OPTION D doesnot go with the intended meaning also)

Regards
Show more


Hello GMATTarget720plus,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :)

You raise a good question here. The use of the word "surely" emphasizes that if this action were to happen, it would happen for sure. So, this word presents emphasis.


Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 29 Dec 2022, 01:01
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jabhatta2


Quote:

She would have been good | She would have proven usefull
They would have been good | They would have prooven usefull.

In this conditional / hypothetical present perfect tense ?

Does the tense imply that -- this hypothetical / conditional state would have begun in the past and would have had some effect on the present tense [assuming the condition/hypothetical state turned out to be actual]

Is that how this tense works ?
Show more

Hey jabhatta2

You're right that adding "would" makes these sentences "hypothetical". However, the tense changes to the Past and is no longer in the present. Allow me to explain:

Past Unreal Conditional:
    Str: If + Past Perfect + then + would + have + 3rd form of verb.
    Example: If I had participated in the race, I would have won.

This Hypothetical (Unreal) Conditional is used discuss the opposite of two events that occurred in the past.
    Event 1: I did not participate in the race.
    Event 2: I did not win the race.

These events are conditionally related. Now, if we imagine the opposite of this past reality, we get:
    If I had participated in the race, I would have won.

Observations:
    The tense form "would have + 3rd form of verb" is limited to the past tense.

Present Hypothetical (Unreal) Conditional:
For the Present Hypothetical (unreal) conditional, we use the structure:
    Str: If + Simple Past (Past Subjunctive) + then + would + 1st form.
      Examples:
        If I participated in marathons, I would win.
        If I were the eldest, I would be king.
As you can see, this hypothetical conditional is used to discuss/imagine the opposite of two present events.

Your Sentence:
    She would have proven useful.
This sentence is incomplete and will only make sense in a past hypothetical (unreal) context, as follows:
    Had she been appointed, she would have proven useful.


I hope this helps improve your understanding of the Past and Present Hypothetical (unreal) Conditionals.

Happy Learning!

Abhishek
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 29 Dec 2022, 06:47
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Thx egmat - in the original sentence , is the original sentence , an example of : Third conditional?

Dont want to get too much into Grammar but i think - this link goes into zero conditional vs 1st conditional vs 2nd conditional vs 3 conditional

I dont think these "Conditionals" have tenses.

Theory
https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and- ... f-clauses/

Zero conditional: “Real condition”
vs
First conditional: “Unreal, but likely”
vs
Second conditional: “Unreal and unlikely”
vs
Third conditional: “Unreal condition”
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 30 Dec 2022, 23:54
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Hey jabhatta2

You're welcome!

jabhatta2

in the original sentence , is the original sentence , an example of : Third conditional?
Show more

Yes, it is. It is a variation of the third conditional.

jabhatta2

Dont want to get too much into Grammar but i think - this link goes into zero conditional vs 1st conditional vs 2nd conditional vs 3 conditional

I dont think these "Conditionals" have tenses.

Theory
https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and- ... f-clauses/

Zero conditional: “Real condition”
vs
First conditional: “Unreal, but likely”
vs
Second conditional: “Unreal and unlikely”
vs
Third conditional: “Unreal condition”
Show more

Yes, these terminologies are quite technical. I personally prefer to remember them by the tense and reality they refer to, and not by the ordinal numbering (zeroth, first, etc.). It makes them easier to both understand and remember that way. There are three real and three unreal conditionals, and we can also mix conditionals in certain cases. So, it's best to let "meaning" guide you first and then choose a conditional tense to convey that meaning.

That said, "mixed conditionals" are not tested frequently on the GMAT. I can't recall a single official question on mixed conditionals.

Hope this helps.

Happy Learning!

Abhishek
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 19 Jan 2023, 10:15
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egmat
TheUltimateWinner

Quote:
To err is human
egmat
I'm known to this sentence from my childhood. I thought the subject is ''human'' as the sentence is in ''inverted'' position where the subject is backward and the verb is followed by a subject.

Hey TheUltimateWinner

You're welcome.

That's the risk of learning grammar without understanding the meaning of each grammatical structure. The word "human" is an adjective not a noun: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... _1?q=human

So, even if you were to invert the sentence "To err is human", "human" would still remain an adjective. Besides, the sentence won't make any sense if you take "human" to be a noun. How can a human being be "to err"? What does that mean?

"To err is human" means it's okay to make mistakes. Humans are not perfect. So, if you're human, you will make mistakes.

I hope you understand the meaning of this sentence now.

Happy Learning! :)
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i am still curious to know how ''human'' could be adjective!
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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 22 Jan 2023, 23:38
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TheUltimateWinner

i am still curious to know how ''human'' could be adjective!
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What's your interpretation of "To err is human." Please share your understanding and we'll take it from there.

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Proceeding without a definite plan for upcoming labor negotiations, li 26 Jan 2023, 00:47
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TheUltimateWinner

Depending on the context, “human” can appear as a noun or an adjective.

“To err is human.”

In this case, “human” is a subject complement following the ‘-to be’ verb.

Basically, it’s a fancy grammar term to describe what could be a noun (predicate nominative) or an adjective (predicate adjective).

Depending on how deep a rabbit hole you want to jump down: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_complement

the sentence, “To err is human”, is a quote from a poem by Alexander Pope.

Written without the rhetorical effect:

“It is human to err.”

Like other nouns, “human” can function as a noun-adjective modifying another noun:

ex 1: “Only a handful of human minds can understand this work.”

What kind of “minds” can understand this work? HUMAN minds

So “human” is modifying the noun “minds as an adjective.

ex 2: “Humans are the only living beings to make use of fire.”

In this example “humans” functions as a noun in the subject slot.

Luckily, we don’t have to delve to deeply into extensive Grammar and Linguistics to understand the sentences on the GMAT.

I hope something was helpful. All the best.

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