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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J

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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 18 May 2019, 08:59
ykaiim wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

look at choice C.

"as" is wrong in choice C. this is easy.
the second thing is meaning problem

with suface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degree ,
the moon has been considered as too cold and
the second part is
with suface temperature estimated at minus 230 degree
the moon has 60 mile of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

the second part is not good.
a sentence is not logic if one phrase in the sentence is not logic.
"with surface temperature estimated at minus 230 degree, the moon has 60 mile of water".
this phrase is not logic. we do not read "thought to be...."

why this phrase is not logic. meaning is distorted. this case is typical on gmat. consider following example

Stock levels for domestic crude oil are far lower than in past years, leaving domestic oil prices vulnerable to any hints of oil supplies being disrupted in the Middle East or to any unexpected consumer demand growth possibly prompted by colder-than-normal temperatures.


A. leaving domestic oil prices vulnerable to any hints of oil supplies being disrupted in the Middle East or to any unexpected consumer demand growth possibly

B. leaving domestic oil prices vulnerable to any hints of oil supply disruptions in the Middle East or any unexpected growth in consumer demand that might be

C. leaving domestic oil prices vulnerable to any hints of oil supplies that are disrupted in the Middle East or to any unexpected growth in consumer demand as was possibly

D. resulting in the fact that domestic oil prices are vulnerable to any hints of oil supplies being disrupted in the Middle East or to any unexpected consumer demand growth possibly

E. resulting in the fact of domestic oil prices that are vulnerable to any hints of oil supply disruptions in the Middle East or to any unexpected growth in consumer demand that might be


in above problem "hint of oil supply disruption" which is correct , is changed into "hint of oil supply that are disrupted" which is incorrect.
our case is similar . we can not write " with surface temperature estimated at 230 minus degree, the moon has 60 squre meter" . this is not logic

gmat normaly change the noun modifier to make illogic combination. consider
theory that the mar is good for living thing is tested by scientist.
gmat change it into
the theory of the mar which is good for living thing is tested by scientist.
this is wrong because "the theory of the mar" make no sense.

to realize this mistake. we separate the phrase from the whole sentence and see weather the phrase is logic. we do not read the whole sentence. this job is hard. in fact, when gmat changes noun modifier, gmat make a distorted meaning and we have to realize the distorted meaning.

remember, if one phrase is not good, the whole sentence is not good. and try to separate the relevant phrase.

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 08 Mar 2019, 01:36.
Last edited by GMATNinjaTwo on 18 May 2019, 08:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2019, 03:03
Option B fits the bill well, as other options show incorrect usage of 'considered'.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Apr 2019, 19:53
Hi All,

Can someone help me understand why "Considered as" in answers C and D is wrong?
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Apr 2019, 21:51
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zhurm wrote:
Hi All,

Can someone help me understand why "Considered as" in answers C and D is wrong?
Although people have different opinions on this, we should probably not think that an option that has consider X as Y has no chance of being correct. However, there are a couple of points to keep in mind here:

1. Consider X as Y can always be replaced by consider X Y.
2. Consider X Y is slightly shorter than consider X as Y.

In this particular question, there are other (big) problems in the options with consider as, so you could prioritize those calls over the consider split if you feel that consider as sounds okay.
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New post Updated on: 18 May 2019, 09:01
ykaiim wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

it takes me a long time to consider choice C.
besides the error of "as", choice C contain other error

choice D mean
with surface temperature estimated to be at minus 230 degree F, Europa has 60 square meter ...

here the focus is Europa has 60 square meter. this idea can not go with "with surface temparature..." logically. this is typical error gmat make on SC, consider

the evidence that a living thing exists on the Mae is clear
the evidence of a living thing existing on the Mar is clear. this sentence, like our choice C, change the focus of meaning and is not logic.

choice B, the focus is "its 60 square meter (is) thought to be frozen..." . this focus can go logically with "with surface....".

so, one again, the change from a sentence into a noun+doing makes a changes in focus. the meaning is not logic anymore

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 16 Apr 2019, 11:11.
Last edited by GMATNinjaTwo on 18 May 2019, 09:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2019, 08:44
(a)
"and with ..." isn't parallel to anything.
AND sets up parallelism, so there must be something to which "with..." can be parallel (other prepositional phrase, or other adverbial modifier). there is no such thing.

(b)
correct.
this is a type of modifier with which you should be familiar. (i have no idea what it's called - sorry)
here's another example:
john, his arms flailing in the wind, called out desperately for help.

note that the presence of frozen water SUPPORTS the claim that europa is "far too cold to support life", so it should be a MODIFIER.
this is done here.
it's inappropriate to place these two things in parallel with AND.

(c)
AND is rhetorically inappropriate (see above).
"considered as" is unidiomatic here.

(d)
this is not a sentence. (the clause before "and" doesn't have a verb; "considered" is a participle, not a verb, here)
"considered as" is unidiomatic here.

(e)
i don't think "considered to be" is wrong, although it's wordier than just "considered..."
this sentence has no verb at all! the only verb forms present are participles and infinitives, none of which is eligible to be the main verb of the sentence.
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New post 25 Apr 2019, 03:31
If Option C is modified to "Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life life and has 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom". Then would option be correct?
If not can someone explain why?
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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2019, 03:49
krishnabalu wrote:
If Option C is modified to "Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life life and has 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom". Then would option be correct?
If not can someone explain why?


krishnabalu No, B is a still a better answer. The "60 squares miles..." is acting like an absolute phrase, which is generally constructed as noun + participle (-ing or -ed verb) + optional modifier/objects OR noun + noun modifier. Note that sometimes the participle is omitted. These phrases modify the entire independent clause as a whole and act to further describe a cause/condition OR to narrow focus. Its used to provide greater meaning to the sentence.

In this case, the "60 square miles" is further explaining why Europa is long considered too cold to support life. With the "and has" in place of ", its", the meaning of the sentence now doesn't emphasise the reasoning behind this consideration and rather presents the "miles of frozen water" as just an additional statement. A classic absolute phrase trap is to separate the two independent clauses with a FANBOYS conjunction.

For example, The kids anxiously scoured the ocean floor for their mother's necklace, their shaking hands chilled by the December waters. The absolute phrase here acts to further describe their anxiety.

-----------------------------

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been consideredasfar too cold to support life and has

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2019, 04:49
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

I was asked by PM to weigh in on this one, though sid has already hit some important points. Here we go.

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

I'd start by saying that generally GMAT prefers the idiom "estimate to be", rather than "estimate at", even though it's not underlined.

Quote:
(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

Sid hit this just right. If we use "and", we're setting up parallel clauses, so we'd need some new verb to make it work.

Quote:
(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

The term Sid was looking for is "participial phrase". "thought" is a past participle, meaning it opens up a modifying clauses, in this case modifying "its 60 square miles of water".

Quote:
(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

"Considered as" is wrong, and even though this creates a parallel AND adds a verb, it's still clunky. We want a modifier because we're creating an example of how it's too cold to support life (it's water is frozen all the way through), not making a new point.

Quote:
(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

'Considered as' is wrong. This also makes the same mistake as answer choice A. In addition, as Sid said, it has no main verb after "Europa", because considered here is a participle (like "thought" later on), which is not a full verb.

Quote:
(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

Sid nailed it. We have the participle "considered" again, and "to have" is just an infinitive riffing off of "considered", like "to be" in the middle portion. With no main verb in the whole sentence, it can't work.

Well done, Sid, and I hope I cleared up any lingering questions.


Can anyone please tell me exactly why 'considered as' is wrong here?

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 14 May 2019, 20:59
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Can you please explain the answer ?
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 14 May 2019, 21:07
Hi,
Can any expert help me understand why the absolute phrase in option A incorrect? Also how is option B correct?
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2019, 09:09
[quote="ykaiim"]With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

look at choice B, the OA. I have a problem with choice B

"with temparature..." can not be an adverbial phrase, which modifies the main clause because if the phrase is so, "temparature" can not refer to Europa, and, so, the sentence is not logic

if the phrase is adjectival, which modifies only Europa, its position is wrong

the men with nice hats learn gmat well

with nice hats, the men learn gmat well (this sentence is wrong)

with a pen , I write.

in the last sentence, with phrase shows a instrument used to do the main action. this is the only case, in which with phrase is at the beginning and is not an absolute phrase
but the setence 2 is wrong. sentence 2 is similar to choice B

so, choice B is wrong.

pls, comment, am i correct ?
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New post 20 May 2019, 10:32
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thangvietnam wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

look at choice B, the OA. I have a problem with choice B

"with temparature..." can not be an adverbial phrase, which modifies the main clause because if the phrase is so, "temparature" can not refer to Europa, and, so, the sentence is not logic

if the phrase is adjectival, which modifies only Europa, its position is wrong

the men with nice hats learn gmat well

with nice hats, the men learn gmat well (this sentence is wrong)

with a pen , I write.

in the last sentence, with phrase shows a instrument used to do the main action. this is the only case, in which with phrase is at the beginning and is not an absolute phrase
but the setence 2 is wrong. sentence 2 is similar to choice B

so, choice B is wrong.

pls, comment, am i correct ?

thangvietnam , the better question stems from this statement: the official answer is B and the official answer is correct..

How can I understand why B works in this construction?

If you were correct, then the official answer would be incorrect.
Please, rid yourself of the idea that official answers are incorrect.

I will let Ron Purewal tell you what you already know; please see THIS POST, HERE.

Do you truly believe that a phrase describing extremely cold surfaces has nothing to do with a celestial body that is too cold to sustain life?

With + noun phrase is a modifier.
Forget the rules. (No, you are not correct about the rules, either.)

What does this modifier say?
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit
The surface temperatures of something are really cold.

What follows the intro phrase in (B)?
Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life
• With + noun phrase (about cold surface temperatures) modifies
• a moon named Europa that is far too cold to support life.

The intro phrase describes the noun. The modifier is an adjectivial phrase.

I urge you to try this approach:
The official answer is correct.
You believe that it is not.
You are wrong.
Figure out why you are wrong.
(For example, what erroneous analysis led you to believe that the intro phrase was adverbial?
Even better because too much focus on rules is getting in your way: B is correct. How can I connect the meaning of the first part to the meaning of another part?)

Come back and explain how you figured out what was wrong with your analysis as long as another poster has not done so already.

That sort of post might help someone who made a similar mistake.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2019, 12:02
Marcab wrote:
\(NAIL\) \(THE\) \(ABSOLUTE\) \(PHRASES\)

#
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

This is many of those questions, which urge us to say "what does the author wants to convey?".
GMATTERS this is an example of the Absolute Phrase question. The sentences involving this concept generally introduce two clauses of which one modifies the entire idea of the preceding clause.

Most of the GMATTERS may be able to nail the question, under 2 mins, just posted above. But I am pretty sure that they must have neglected the concept of Absolute Phrases. There are/can be several mistakes in such questions which can easily help us to find the correct answer.

Anyways the answer to the question just posted above is .
In order to tackle such questions, I developed a technique and found it pretty useful.

Whenever you see such question, break the sentence into clauses, the basic step in SC questions. This blue portion is itself the Absolute Phrase which modifies the entire idea of the preceding clause.
Anyways, break the entire sentence into clauses.
i)With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit.
ii)Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.
iii)and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

Notice that the third clause is NOT the independent clause.

The method is Stop youself at the end of the clause after which the following clause is not independent and RAISE THE QUESTION \(HOW?\). If the forecoming clauses answers your question in exactly in its own words, then that clause is the Absolute Phrase and is the correct choice.

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, an

d with
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, \(HOW?\)and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom. Does it answers HOW in its own words? NO! Eliminate it.

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life,\(HOW?\) its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom. Does it answers HOW in its own words? YES!

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life and has 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom. All clauses are independent. No Absolute Phrase.

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life,\(HOW?\) and its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom. Does it answers HOW in its own words? NO!


(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have
Disaster. eliminate it at once.

Other examples are:

#Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from dissipating its acoustic energy as a result of boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.
1)same as underlined
2)prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by
3) its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by
4) its acoustic energy prevented from being dissipated as a result of
5) preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by

#Margaret Courtney-Clarke has traveled to remote dwellings in the Transvaal to photograph the art of Ndebele women, whose murals are brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries embellished with old and new iconography and in a style that varies from woman to woman and house to house.
(A) whose murals are brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries embellished with old and new iconography and in a style that varies from woman to woman and house to house
(B) whose murals are brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries are embellished with old and new iconography, and their style is varying among women and houses
(C) whose murals are brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries are embellished with old and new iconography, and they are in styles that vary from woman to woman and house to house
(D) with murals brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries embellished with old and new iconography, and their style varies among women and houses
(E) with murals that are brilliantly colored, their geometrical symmetries.

Hope all the above stuff helps to beat the Absolute Phrase.



Could you please share detailed material about the different usage of (with ) in gmat sc , I struggle with it whenever it appears.
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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2019, 13:13
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AjiteshArun wrote:
zhurm wrote:
Hi All,

Can someone help me understand why "Considered as" in answers C and D is wrong?
Although people have different opinions on this, we should probably not think that an option that has consider X as Y has no chance of being correct. However, there are a couple of points to keep in mind here:

1. Consider X as Y can always be replaced by consider X Y.
2. Consider X Y is slightly shorter than consider X as Y.

In this particular question, there are other (big) problems in the options with consider as, so you could prioritize those calls over the consider split if you feel that consider as sounds okay.


Dear generis AjiteshArun GMATNinja Sir

Would this construction be correct?

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit,and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom,Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

Thanks
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New post 20 May 2019, 14:19
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sonusaini1 wrote:
AjiteshArun wrote:
zhurm wrote:
Hi All,

Can someone help me understand why "Considered as" in answers C and D is wrong?
Although people have different opinions on this, we should probably not think that an option that has consider X as Y has no chance of being correct. However, there are a couple of points to keep in mind here:

1. Consider X as Y can always be replaced by consider X Y.
2. Consider X Y is slightly shorter than consider X as Y.

In this particular question, there are other (big) problems in the options with consider as, so you could prioritize those calls over the consider split if you feel that consider as sounds okay.


Dear generis AjiteshArun GMATNinja Sir

Would this construction be correct?

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit,and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

Thanks

Hi sonusaini1 , your sentence is correct, though I would remove the first comma. Nice work!
Although I usually recommend that people not rewrite sentences, I think I understand what you are trying to do, so +1.

Unless parallel elements are really long and have no other marker that sets Y off from X (in X AND Y)
we usually do not put commas between parallel elements of this kind.

I will leave the comma, but if I color code your X and Y elements and WITH, maybe it will be easier to see why you do not need a comma.

Blue = note the second with that makes it easy to find the Y element
Green = noun phrase
WITH X and WITH Y

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

You wisely repeated with, which clearly marks off the Y element in X AND Y.
I think one of your purposes is to make these two modifiers "hang together."
They do, but without the first comma that fact is easier to see. Well done. :)
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jul 2019, 06:03
cricketlover7777 wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
The second clause starting with "with 60 square...." does not have a main verb and thus is a sentence fragment.

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
This is the correct choice. "its 60 square..." is an NOUN+NOUN modifier clearly modifying the entire preceding clause.

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
"Considered as" is an INCORRECT IDIOM on the GMAT

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
"Considered as" is an INCORRECT IDIOM on the GMAT.

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have
"Considered to be" is an INCORRECT IDIOM on the GMAT.


Hi Experts, could you further elaborate what does it mean by : "an NOUN+NOUN modifier clearly modifying the entire preceding clause" ?

For (B), I was under impression that this part "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom" is modifying the previous word which is "life".

I would appreciate if anyone can help to explain in what case the NOUN+NOUN modifier modifies the entire preceding clause, and in what case it modifies the preceding word.
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New post 28 Jul 2019, 22:40
When do we use estimated at vs estimated to be
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Sep 2019, 17:53
VeritasKarishma

When we plug in option B "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom." Isn't it a run-on sentence?

"Its 60 square miles of water "IS" thought to be frozen from top to bottom." Shouldn't this be correct?
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Sep 2019, 19:34
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[quote="ykaiim"]With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

I can come to choice B for this problem, but there is something I want to talk.

" with+noun+noun modifier " can work as an adverb for the main clause. but in this pattern, "with+noun" dose not refer to subject of the main clause. this is why the phrase is called "absolute". this means this phrase can stand as an independent sentence grammatically if it is given a verb.

the point is "with+noun+noun modifier " dose not refer to any noun in the main clause. so, "with surface" dose not refer to Europa, and , so, it is unclear that which has surface temporature.

the phrase "its 60..." is also an absolute phrase, but we have "its", so, it is clear which has 60 square mile.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J   [#permalink] 07 Sep 2019, 19:34

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