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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 04:27
nitin6305 wrote:
As per solutions above answer choice C is incorrect because it is using wrong idiom, "considered as". What if the answer choice read, " Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life and has"? Would it be correct then? I am asking because this sentence makes perfect sense,
" With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit,Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life and has 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."

Not sure if you had the opportunity to read my post, a couple of posts above this, directly addressing this point.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 18 Sep 2014, 11:49
piyushjj wrote:
Whenever you see such question, break the sentence into clauses, the basic step in SC questions. This blue portion is itself the Absolute Phrase which modifies the entire idea of the preceding clause.
Anyways, break the entire sentence into clauses.
i)With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit.
ii)Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.
iii)and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

Notice that the third clause is NOT the independent clause.

Can anyone please explain it to me. I thought the above sentence has just one clause: Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered, rest all are modifiers....

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit(verb-ed modifier), Jupiter's moon Europa(Subject) has long been considered(verb) far too cold to support life and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom(verb-ed modifier).

I also agree that the above sentence has only one clause; however, just numbering different elements of it doesn't mean that each one is a clause. IMO, Marcab is separating out the modifiers from the main clause to isolate the elements of this sentence.
Marcab could you please help all of us to clear this confusion.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with - comma+ and starts new clause, here absence of subject in 2nd clause is problem

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its - correct answer

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has - Wrong Idiom

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its - Wrong Idiom

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have - Wrong Idiom
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 02 Oct 2014, 15:22
If we read the original sentence as ,

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

Does it make sense? My point is that both the the "with" phrases modify the same saem clause, "Jupiter's moon...." and are paralle as well, then why is the sentence as is wrong?

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 03 Oct 2014, 06:33
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nitin6305 wrote:
If we read the original sentence as ,

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

Does it make sense? My point is that both the the "with" phrases modify the same saem clause, "Jupiter's moon...." and are paralle as well, then why is the sentence as is wrong?



Check comma+end - it starts a new clause , which should contain a subject and a verb. In this new phrase subject is missing. \If we repeat subject in this clause then sentence would be correct.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 04 Dec 2014, 23:40
Marcab wrote:
nelz007 wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

will provide OA after explanations.

Answer must be B
First of all we do have to consider the correct usage of "With".
ex- "With 4 childrens at home, Rachel barely has any spare time for her hobbies".
Notice that the two clauses of the above sentence are reinforcing into each other.
So the sentence must complete after the second clause. If it does'nt, then the third clause must be a modifier, modifying the preceding clause.
B does it correctly.
", its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom" is an absolute phrase that is modifying " Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life".
Whats the OA and the source?
-s



I have few questions from you-
I normally put other rules to secondary position and judge with what Ron emphasizes so much:

and should complete the laundry list
and should connect two clauses
and can also connect two similar phrases
If we ignore idiomatic error for a while in C, can we discard C as and is unable to connect two part with exactly same tenses.
first part has continuous tense and in second part the tense is not continuous.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2014, 04:21
honchos wrote:
If we ignore idiomatic error for a while in C, can we discard C as and is unable to connect two part with exactly same tenses.

Actually this is not a requirement that parts connected by and should be in the same tense.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2014, 20:11
By the way, leave everything aside, in Q1 Option 4, is the use of being in "being dissipated" correct?

I guess no because acoustic energy can prevent sound from "dissipation" rather than "being dissipation". Kindly correct me if I am getting wrong somewhere.

(As mentioned at when-you-should-eliminate-being-the-answer-is-here-141086.html)
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2015, 12:43
souvik101990 wrote:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.


A. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
comma+and introduces a new clause, but this new clause does not have a verb.

B. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
this answer choice changes comma+and to its. now we have a noun+noun modifier which correctly modifies Jupiter's Moon Europa.

C. Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
2 clauses are connected only by and.

D. Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
now long considered.. serves as a modifier, but after this modifier we have comma+and

E. Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have
same error as in D. In addition, with this choice, the sentence does not have a verb.

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2015, 13:37
Sinner1706 wrote:
Marcab wrote:
daagh wrote:
@Marcab;
Although I must be honest in admitting that, I haven’t gone through you note as yet, as I am hard - pressed these days for time due to some assignments, as my first reaction, I must appreciate your stupendous effort.

This, I aver, is initiative, involvement and enterprise. A big kudo to you.


Thanks daagh.
A kudo from people like you encourages me a lot.
I just hope, GMAC KUDOes me by providing a solid score.
Thnx again.


Hi Marcab,

How would you apply your HOW rule to the following Question?

Scientists have recently discovered what could be the largest and oldest living organism on Earth, a giant fungus
that is an interwoven filigree of mushrooms and root-like tentacles spawned by a single fertilized spore some
10,000 years ago and extendingfor more than 30 acres in the soil of a Michigan forest.

A. extending
B. extends
C. extended
D. it extended
E. is extending

Your erudite help will be greatly appreciated.


Can you post the Official Answer?
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 21 Sep 2016, 04:19
daagh wrote:
@Marcab;
Although I must be honest in admitting that, I haven’t gone through you note as yet, as I am hard - pressed these days for time due to some assignments, as my first reaction, I must appreciate your stupendous effort.

This, I aver, is initiative, involvement and enterprise. A big kudo to you.


Hi Sir,

What is your take on questions involving Absolute Phrases?

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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ezinis wrote:
:) Need explanation


The sentence says that Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.
Option D and E are straightaway out it breaks the sentence by introducing the (,).
Option A is wrong considering 'with' preposition.

We are now left with option B and C. Ideally on first look C seems to be correct however it is not.
The sentence says that Jupiter's moon europa is too cold to support life and it gives reason why it too cold.
Because "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom....". We used "and" to connect two different statement. However in above we are just providing addition piece of information or reason. Hence B is the correct answer.
Although i did initially checked C and i was wrong.

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jun 2017, 19:02
hello, I have a question to ask you.
N + get / have SB/STH + past participle is not tolerated in GMAT?
If this structure will be tested on GMAT, how can I use this structure correctly?

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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Hey Sid,

I'd prefer if you didn't do that. While the forums are meant to be a place for people to discuss any material out there (including ours), it's not a place to simply share out all the material we have just so others can see it. Seek, if you want full access to all that stuff, all you need to do is buy the SC guide, which is very reasonably priced! Or, if you're really insistent, merely by searching the forums (here and elsewhere), you can probably find many of our questions discussed somewhere or another. : )

-tommy



Sorry to ask but I rejected B speifically because of the 'its' used in the question. As the pronoun refers back to a possessive antecedent should it not simply refer to Jupiter's rather than Europa. My construction leads to an illogical inference that Jupiter has ice. Hence, I rejected this answer choice.

Can you please explain how is its used to refer to Europa?

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2017, 01:49
daagh
Hi Daagh, can you kindly help with the following:
1. Would C be grammatically correct if it had not added "as" after "considered"?
2. Would A be correct if the "and" is removed: "With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."

Thank you!

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2017, 06:16
A very helpful post.
Absolute phrases are optional in sentences, i.e., they can be removed without damaging the grammatical integrity of the sentence. Since absolute phrases are optional in the sentence, they are often set off from the sentence with commas or, less often, with dashes. We normally explain absolute phrases by saying that they modify entire sentences, rather than one word.
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2017, 06:33
Top Contributor
mailabhishekmathur wrote

Quote:
Sorry to ask but I rejected B specifically because of the 'its' used in the question. As the pronoun refers back to a possessive antecedent should it not simply refer to Jupiter's rather than Europa. My construction leads to an illogical inference that Jupiter has ice. Hence, I rejected this answer choice.

Can you please explain how is its used to refer to Europa?


Hi

Jupiter's' is not the subject here. Jupiter's moon (Europa) is the subject. 'Jupiter's' is simply an adjective.
A possessive pronoun (its) noun can certainly stand for a non- possessive noun (Europa). Only the reverse cannot happen.


Kerin wrote

Quote:
Hi Daagh, can you kindly help with the following:

1. Would C be grammatically correct if it had not added "as" after "considered"?

2. Would A be correct if the "and" is removed:
"With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."


Kerin
Hi
1. Yes, C is correct the way you suggest
2. We are now getting into a slightly more complicated situation of adverbial modifiers started by 'with.
With denotes a certain level of physical accompaniment. In this case, even though the 'with' modifier at the end of the sentence modifies the entire clause before it as an absolute phrase, still the absolute phrase is not contributing to the clause. In addition, the preposition 'with' may modify a noun but not an elaborate action. Probably a simple appositive would have provided the additional meaning the as effectively and that is the reason B wins over A.


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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2017, 10:33
Imo B
The modifier clearly modifies the preceding sentence .
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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J [#permalink]

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New post 09 Sep 2017, 11:08
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
- why is "and with" here? "and with" sets up something else, as if there's some sort of a list. that's not what is happening here.

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
- correct as is

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
- "considered as" = UNIDIOMATIC. PROPER IDIOM: "considered X" or "X is considered Y"

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
- same as "D"

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have
- same as "A". "and to have" = completely wrong

i think the key thing here is that the phrase after "support life" = a modifier, so it should not be connected to the preceding phrase with "and ...".

Kudos please if you find helpful :)

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Re: With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, J   [#permalink] 09 Sep 2017, 11:08

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