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cheetarah1980
28 Dec 2011, 21:32
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cheetarah1980
You may not be intending your words to come across this way, but you seem to be insinuating that the reason URMs are getting places in top schools and jobs is to fill quotas and not based off their qualifications. Yes, schools and businesses have diversity targets that they want to hit. But I will tell you that schools and companies are not picking up any Black, Latino, or Native American candidate that crosses their path just to hit these numbers. In fact, many companies and schools STRUGGLE to come close to their targets no matter how much recruiting they do amongst these groups. Why? Because if a candidate cannot meet a certain threshold then it doesn't matter what their ethnicity/race is, they're not getting the offer. As a URM it's disheartening to see people reduce our places in schools and jobs as a "filled quota."
Even if this was not your intention, please know that it comes across in the words you choose.
I'm not saying there's no bar, the bar is just lower.Even if this was not your intention, please know that it comes across in the words you choose.
There is a minimum barrier to entry for top schools (and afterward jobs). That barrier is the same for all candidates. Adcoms are not saying that certain groups only contain quality candidates above a certain threshold while another group can show that quality at a lower one. The lower one is the standard to which ALL applicants must meet (and it's a nebulous standard that even I can't pinpoint). However, if a certain group exceeds a particular threshold in one area (GPA/GMAT) then amongst those candidates that becomes a distinguishing factor. It becomes especially important when that applicant pool applies in large numbers. I'm not going to lie and say that URMs don't get in with lower stats than other applicants. However, there aren't NEARLY the # of URMs applying to schools as other applicant groups. There are fewer applicants and thus fewer with nosebleed GMAT scores (although there are quite a few). While the URM candidates who meet the admissions criteria may not generally far exceed it based on GPA/GMAT, they often do so on other metrics (work progress, leadership, etc.). Is one criteria more important than the other? Or do schools (and employers) need people who excel in different areas? GPA/GMAT is the easiest one to point to and tell one group that, "You have it easier. Your bar is lower." But on the flip side people from "over represented groups" get just as defensive when told, "You bring nothing besides a high GPA and GMAT."
Thankfully, admissions (and subsequent employment) is not solely based on "stats" nor solely on "personal qualities." Stats are not the only indication of the quality of ANYONE'S candidacy (whether high or low). And being a charismatic leader will not make up for the fact that someone cannot handle a program's rigor. Yes, I do wish more URMs were coming to the admissions game with 700+ GMAT scores, but not because it makes them a better candidate but moreso to end the speculation about why they have a spot in the class.
28 Dec 2011, 21:37
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Personally, I think that any URM attending a top business has met the same standards for admission as their non-minority peers. They have the business experiences and unique perspectives to prove valuable to class discussion as well as the grades and test scores to prove academically capable.
Wharton once stated that 70% of the applications they receive come from qualified applicants. All URMs accepted to top programs obviously fall into this group and add something unique to the student body. They contribute to a well-rounded class and are selected for admission accordingly.
Wharton once stated that 70% of the applications they receive come from qualified applicants. All URMs accepted to top programs obviously fall into this group and add something unique to the student body. They contribute to a well-rounded class and are selected for admission accordingly.
28 Dec 2011, 22:49
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This is a pretty racist statement. You are basically saying that Asians are only good at getting higher scores, but lack other skills. This is simply not a true assertion. If Asians lack inherent drive and creativity, why are the Asian economies doing so well? The perception about other people is a dangerous one to have. Because one day they will eat your lunch.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask you where you got the idea that I was making a racist statement. That is a strong assertion and I take that kind of assertion very seriously. Where did you get the conclusion that Asians are only good at getting higher scores from what I wrote?
Have you ever stopped to wonder why I said I am able to look at this from insider's perspective? Everything I wrote on my previous post is true - that's what I went through when I was young. I was educated in 3 countries throughout my life and I think it's safe to say I know what I'm talking about since I experience all of them myself. Education and work culture in Asia is very different from one you might have experienced elsewhere. I don't know what your background is but most schools and workplaces in Asia discourage being different and creative. It's sad, but it's true. It may have created many people excel academically but for many of them they're mostly empty shell who lack important attributes and leadership skills that MBA schools look favorably upon. It shows on applications and schools notice. As I said, there's always an exception. Among all those academically-competitive applicants ones who will really shine are the ones that was able to grow and nurture their leadership skills and attributes through rigorous if not hellish studying for nearly 15 years. It's a difference in mindset and culture, and that's why I said you lack the experience and knowledge to make your assertions citing MLK and Gandhi - This is something you have to experience to understand.
Asian economies doing so well? Have you even been to Asia? It might look good with all the skyscrapers from outside but inside it's a mess. The gap between rich and poor, inflation, kids committing suicides b/c of low grades, top college grads struggling to find jobs, soaring jobless rates....the list goes on. Believe it or not, beside the horrible world economy we face nowadays, it has a lot to do with what I mentioned above - fanatic education culture that discourages creativity and only pushes for numbers on record. I don't expect you to understand, but that's what's going on. It's a social problem here.
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Furthermore, I do believe b-school should accept the best holistic candidate. However, when there is an arbitrary definition of “diversity”, and you slot the classes this way, it inherently causes inequity. For example, two candidates with equal softer skills and quant skills, one is URM, one isn’t, which one do you think would get the slot? Now let’s presume, two candidates with equal softer skills, the URM has lower stats, but the non-URM slots has been filled. Who do you think would get the admit? Is this fair and equitable? What happen if the URM was brought up in an affluent family? The non-URM had to fight their way through poor education opportunity, and difficulty in getting recommenders who can write in English. Did the URM add diversity to the mix?
Any time when there is a pre-determined class mix, you lose the argument accepting the best candidate.
Any time when there is a pre-determined class mix, you lose the argument accepting the best candidate.
Going back to MBA topics, as I mentioned It will work as disadvantages for candidates from Asia and China. That means it worked as disadvantage for me when I applied to schools this year. Here's the bottom line though - suck it up, seriously. Bite the bullet, accept the situation, rock those applications and get into schools. If you are truly outstanding candidate, and if you truly want MBA, it's your responsibility to get what you want out of your life. No excuses necessary and no need to occupy business schools with I have a dream speech. I wish those schools have rooms for more Asian and Indian candidates, that would be wonderful, but that's not the world we live in and there are undeniable things in our lives that we need to consider when applying to B-schools. Population keeps growing and space is still limited. If people can't live or work with that fact, they should reconsider applying to B-schools.
The perception about other people is a dangerous one to have. Because one day they will eat your lunch. Beautiful statement my friend - totally agree. Except it was me sharing my thoughts based on my experience than me having the perception about other people. So let's refrain from jumping ships and accuse me for making racist comments first without knowing my background and where I come from, because that's very dangerous and one day will eat your lunch.
