For Chinese and Indian MBA Applicants, It’s Time to Step it

Hmmmm...let me get the reasoning right.
1) Business schools want to educate future leaders who'll have a profound impact on the world.
2) Future leaders need to land certain jobs to be properly positioned to have this impact.
3) Asians have more difficulty landing these jobs.
4) That is why business schools tend to limit otherwise well qualified Asians.

I largely agree to point 1. Indeed business schools aim to educate future leaders who'll have an impact on the world. In whatever capacity they can.

Point 2 is ludicrous. To illustrate, Md. Yunus is an economist who had a truly profound impact on the world. He didn't need any plum posting to bring about this impact. There are countless others. Ken Iverson from Nucor never had an MBA. He created an organization that consistently beat those infamous business cycles. I don't need to tell the story of Steve Jobs and his impact. Let us consider these jobs out of an MBA, and how people used it. Louis Gerstner of Harvard/McKinsey/IBM did it wonderfully well, reviving a flagging company to achieve amazing success. Jeff Skilling of Harvard/McKinsey/Enron - well what an impact he had! Leaders of the wall street, with the jobs that enabled them, have had the greatest impact on the world since 2008 though not of a particularly good kind.

With regard to the third point, the question is why do Asians have more difficulty landing these jobs? Is it because they lack certain skill sets as compared to others? More importantly, are these skills required to have that impact on the world through these jobs? Had that been the case, all the impactful stuff being done in the world would be by non-Asians. Great notion to have, expect that the one person right in the middle of the world of impact, the person who is responsible for educating future world leaders, the dean of Harvard Business School is an Asian.

Point 4, a conclusion following premises 1, 2 and 3 stands void.

This is not to say that I do not realize the value of an MBA - I do and that's why I'm applying to business school. But this angle of certain jobs positioning people to have an impact and Asians not getting those jobs didn't sit well with me.

I think you briefly touched upon what I feel is the reason of the limits. First, it is diversity of opinions and experiences. I feel that Asians if and when bring in that same diversity and the same qualifications, their numbers in such programs will increase. Second, we must remember that all these great schools in the US have a duty to their country to educate their children. We cannot stand in queue demanding equal rights coming from an alien country, such is the nature of the modern sovereign nation states.

BTW, the following is a quote by Joan Robinson, a post Keynesian economist from the Cambridge school, about India -

"Whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true"

Truer words were never spoken.

I read through the whole thread, and I found it pretty interesting. Somebody earlier on this thread has pointed out that if AdCom were to select between an Indian IT male and a Norwegian IT male, there is a greater probability of them taking the Norwegian, all other things remaining the same. The argument is that there are fewer Norwegians applying to US Bschools, and somebody from Norway doing IT is much rarer than their counterpart in India. So here's the thing, using a Diversity/AA argument, Adcom can always reject an applicant for something that was never in their control, like the color of their skin, the country of their birth, their ethnicity, etc.

For eg, if we assume that a big name Bschool Adcom has just one last seat left, and they have five contenders in the fray - 2 Indian males, 1 White American male, 1 Chinese male, and 1 Swedish female. The Adcom agonizes over the decision, these 5 people are all well qualified for a spot, they are all talented, high achievers, each of them could achieve a lot through the program. But who do you think will make it? I bet it will be the Swedish female. This despite the fact that the two Indians and the Chinese may have battled through an insensitive and rigorous schooling system to build the interpersonal skills required to reach the highest levels of professional success. The American male may have worked incredibly hard to shine and succeed amongst his very talented and competitive peers. But well, the one thing they can do nothing about is their ethnicity and their gender.

Adcom may be justified in selecting the Swedish applicant, over the other 'over-represented' ethnicities. But that doesn't make their decision fair.

Some interesting points being made here.. Just want to pitch in with my opinion...

Take a look at the class profiles of Canadian schools like Schulich, Ivey, JM etc... You would find that they admit a disproportionate amount of Indians/Chinese and if you read through the profiles of currently admitted students you would find a lot of them would have (Solid) IT backgrounds...

Does the Canadian MBA work for them.... You bet it does.. They have windows open for them in Finance/Consulting/Marketing which would not have been otherwise open.. They are able to find work in Canada relatively easy( Yup! Easy Immigration) and their MBA from the Canadian school has a significant impact in their lives.. And I believe that is the only yard stick to measure an MBA program: Impact!!!

Once the smoke clears, an MBA program would have been worthwhile if it had given us better jobs(For us Desis:better geography) and better opportunities.. That is all that counts..

So if I were an Indian IT Male I would definitely spread my wings and dare to dream for a HBS or a Wharton.. But if that faces a setback I would choose a Said over a Darden or a Schulish over a Yale and a Monash over a Cornell and I would be surprised to discover inspite of the low interest in GMAT club and other forums I now have career opportunities which I never had before in a country which wants me and more importantly, I get in relatively easily...

Some of us are lucky enough( or unlucky enough) to have careers/jobs where a "non Elite" MBA would not materially improve our careers and would only end up being a sunk cost...If I were in that boat I would understand that the challenges in getting into the elite program is (indirectly) responsible for radically transforming the trajectory of my career and would put up with the fact that I have a 3% chance of getting in.... If I get into that Wharton MBA, great! If I dont, its ok because I don't have a Willy Wonka's Code Factory to escape from and other non academic opportunities would always be available...

I believe This is the only way to I should look at an MBA program irrespective of whether I am Indian, Greek or New Caledonian.. After all that is the only thing I control...

[EDIT - Best of luck everyone!]

I certainly see your point -- justified, but unfair is a really interesting way to put it.

Ok. So here's where we disagree. My contention is that a career in all these companies that you listed does not, in any way, make it likely for an individual to have a profound impact on the world. If an individual has it in him, he'll make an impact regardless. To look at some data (and not exceptions) have a look at the 'Top 10 greatest living leaders today by Forbes' or 'Fortune 40 under 40' or any such list. People following the traditional path of MBA->Big business are almost non existent in these lists. In fact I would be interested to see if there is any data / study to back your assertion that people in such prestige jobs are more likely to have an impact on the world than others. I'm willing to change my mind.

[EDIT - Best of luck everyone!]

I'm so glad I'm not an Indian IT Male
I'm only an Indian Male

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