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Sarjaria84
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 10 Sep 2019, 23:37
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daagh
The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them-- advocating is not a subjunctive factor
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Hello daagh

I didn't caught the subjunctive error in 'A' (it's been difficult for me to identify subjunctive usage in test taking/ question solving conditions), but isn't the usage of 'so as to' unidiomatic as well in option 'A'?


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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 11 Sep 2019, 02:26
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Sarja

Subjunctive mood: For a basic understanding of the subjunctives, could you please go through the following small note.
Subjunctive mood sentences are special types of sentences, which sidestep the normal rules applied to subject verb agreement in number and tense but still considered grammatical.
There are subjunctive mood uses in the present tense and the past tense. In the present or the command subjunctive, the verb in the subordinate clause is always in the bare infinitive , even if the subject is plural and the tense is past or future. Sentences in which one would use such verbs as is, are, was, were or will be , should use the bare infinitive verb - be -, in the case of the subjunctive mood.
The subjunctive mood is used when the main verb indicates a desire, intention, command, recommendation, request, resolution, advice or stipulation. . It is also used along with such words as advisable, better, desirable, and directive, essential, fitting, imperative, important, necessary, urgent and vital. Very important thing here is that the word - that -will always accompany such subjunctive mood sentences and the verb of the relative sentences will always be the base form called 'the bare infinitive' or the root form of the verb
1. To pay = infinitive. 2, Pay- he pay, they pay, it pay , etc are bare infinitives
1. Wrong: The public are demanding that a crematorium should be constructed at the traffic junction.
. Correct: The public are demanding that a crematorium be constructed at the traffic junction.
2. Incorrect: The Committee recommended that the manager is dismissed.
Correct: The Committee recommended that the manager be dismissed
3. Incorrect:The court directed that the owner of the car to pay the accident victim a sum of ten thousand rupees.
Correct: The court directed that the owner of the car pay the accident victim a sum of ten thousand rupees
Correct: The inquiry committee proposes that Tom apologize to customers for his intemperance
4. Incorrect: My professor always insists that the students must inform him before meeting him
Correct: My professor always insists that the students inform him before meeting him
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 11 Sep 2019, 02:33
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With reference to the doubt on 'so as to', however much I try I am not able to get a GMAT example for using ' so as to' per se. All of the examples seems to prefer 'so x as to'. But I find that it is accepted in dictionaries.
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 24 Jan 2021, 10:36
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

Let’s tackle this question, one answer at a time, to locate any potential problems.

The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform
(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labor

After a quick glance over the question, it’s clear that each option is vastly different from the other. This is a sign that we are dealing with an issue of clarity. Whenever we deal with clarity, we must focus on a few issues to help eliminate wrong answers quickly:

1. Pronoun-Antecedent Agreement
2. Misplaced Modifiers
3. Overly wordy phrases

Let’s start with pronoun-antecedent agreement. Only options A and B use pronouns, so let’s check those first:

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
This is INCORRECT because it uses a vague pronoun! It’s unclear in the sentence if the pronoun “them” is referring to the prisoners reforming themselves, or if the prisoners are reforming the reformers.
Show more
EMPOWERgmatVerbal
It seems that we can use 'prisoners' or 'reformers' instead of 'themselves' (not 'them' at all). Can I have your thought, please?
Thanks__
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 25 Jan 2021, 15:54
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

Let’s tackle this question, one answer at a time, to locate any potential problems.

The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform
(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labor

After a quick glance over the question, it’s clear that each option is vastly different from the other. This is a sign that we are dealing with an issue of clarity. Whenever we deal with clarity, we must focus on a few issues to help eliminate wrong answers quickly:

1. Pronoun-Antecedent Agreement
2. Misplaced Modifiers
3. Overly wordy phrases

Let’s start with pronoun-antecedent agreement. Only options A and B use pronouns, so let’s check those first:

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
This is INCORRECT because it uses a vague pronoun! It’s unclear in the sentence if the pronoun “them” is referring to the prisoners reforming themselves, or if the prisoners are reforming the reformers.
EMPOWERgmatVerbal
It seems that we can use 'prisoners' or 'reformers' instead of 'themselves' (not 'them' at all). Can I have your thought, please?
Thanks__
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Thanks for your question TheUltimateWinner!

Yes, you can replace the word "themselves" in my explanation with "prisoners" and it means the same thing. Option A is incorrect because we don't know who the pronoun "them" is referring to, and not knowing that can drastically change the meaning, depending on which antecedent you choose to replace it with.

We hope that helps clear that up!
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 16 Jul 2021, 18:20
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Is it reform prisons or reform prisoners?
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 17 Jul 2021, 01:02
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GMATNinja please explain why the modifier in D ( who advocated....)is incorrect and how come ing modifier is correct here
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 13 Aug 2021, 11:55
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Mbagoal123
GMATNinja please explain why the modifier in D ( who advocated....)is incorrect and how come ing modifier is correct here
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I wouldn't say that "who advocated" is automatically wrong in (D), but I would say that the -ing modifier does a better job of tying the modifier to the action of establishing the penitentiary.

In other words, in (D), we might be talking about reformers who (1) established a penitentiary and who (2) just happened to advocate solitary confinement and hard labor -- those two things might be entirely unrelated.

In (C), on the other hand, the -ing modifier "advocating" suggests that the advocating and the establishing were related -- that the reformers established the penitentiary WITH solitary confinement and hard labor in mind (i.e. perhaps this penitentiary was designed with numerous solitary confinement cells or with specific ways to subject prisoners to hard labor).

To be clear: I am not suggesting that there is some black and white rule about -ing modifiers vs. the use of "who." That's why I wouldn't say that this qualifies as a definite error in (D).

(C) has a couple other advantages over (D). In (C), "as the means" clearly suggests that the solitary confinement and hard labor are themselves the means to reform prisoners. But in (D), "for the means" seems to suggest that the solitary confinement and hard labor are somehow separate from the means:

  • "Tim advocated equal pay for all of his employees." In this example, "equal pay" is the thing that Tim advocated, and "his employees" were the beneficiaries of that (the employees are separate and distinct from the thing that Tim advocated).
  • "...reformers who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform..." Here, "solitary confinement and hard labor" are the things that the reformers advocated. But in this context "the means of prisoner reform" are clearly not a separate and distinct entity benefitting from the things that the reformers advocated.

Also, notice that "means OF prisoner reform" could imply that prisoner reform IS the means -- that the means consist of prisoner reform. (For example, if we write "Bogdan exerted his will by means of intimidation," we're saying that the means consist of intimidation.) In this question, the intended meaning is better conveyed by "means TO reform prisoners."

Does (D) have any black and white errors? Maybe not. But we have several votes in favor of (C) over (D), and that makes (C) our winner.
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 06 Feb 2022, 09:41
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

Let’s tackle this question, one answer at a time, to locate any potential problems.

The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform
(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labor

After a quick glance over the question, it’s clear that each option is vastly different from the other. This is a sign that we are dealing with an issue of clarity. Whenever we deal with clarity, we must focus on a few issues to help eliminate wrong answers quickly:

1. Pronoun-Antecedent Agreement
2. Misplaced Modifiers
3. Overly wordy phrases

Let’s start with pronoun-antecedent agreement. Only options A and B use pronouns, so let’s check those first:

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
This is INCORRECT because it uses a vague pronoun! It’s unclear in the sentence if the pronoun “them” is referring to the prisoners reforming themselves, or if the prisoners are reforming the reformers.

(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
This option is also INCORRECT because it’s not clear if “their” is referring to the prisoners or the reformers.

So that means we can knock options A and B out of the running. This leaves us with C, D, and E. Let’s look at each one to see if they have problems with either misplaced modifiers or wordiness:

(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
This is CORRECT! It doesn’t have any issues with pronouns, modifiers, or wordiness. This is clear and concise, which is what the GMAT is looking for!

(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform

This is INCORRECT because it’s vague and a bit wordy. It says that the reformers want solitary confinement and hard labor, but they don’t say WHO they think should be doing it! Is this something the prisoners will do or the reformers? It’s also a bit clunky to say “for the means of,” when you could easily simplify it to “for.”

(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labor

This is INCORRECT because it contains a misplaced modifier! The phrase “as the means for prisoner reform” should go after “solitary confinement and hard labor.” You could place it here if you really wanted to, but you would need to put commas before and after the phrase so it’s clear this is a non-essential modifier.

There you have it! Option C is the correct answer!


Don’t study for the GMAT. Train for it.
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Hi EMPOWERgmatVerbal , can you please help what is the role of "as" in option C . Is it just an idiom or a modifier ?
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 08 Feb 2022, 11:10
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Could you please explain why option C is better than option A?
What makes option A wrong here?
I chose A because it follows subjunctive mood.
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 10 Feb 2022, 06:58
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krittapat
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karishmaB
mikemcgarry
Could you please explain why option C is better than option A?
What makes option A wrong here?
I chose A because it follows subjunctive mood.
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Hello krittapat,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, Option A suffers from pronoun ambiguity, as it is unclear whether "them" refers to "reformers" or "prisoners". Further, option A incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction “cause (“prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor”) so as to effect (“reform them”)”; please remember, "so as to" is generally an incorrect usage; "so + cause + as to + effect" is the correct, idiomatic usage.

On a broader note, please remember that the subjunctive mood is only a preference; it is entirely possible for an answer choice that correctly utilizes the subjunctive mood to be incorrect and for an answer choice that does not use the subjunctive mood even when it is applicable to be correct.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 10 Feb 2022, 11:23
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krittapat
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karishmaB
mikemcgarry
Could you please explain why option C is better than option A?
What makes option A wrong here?
I chose A because it follows subjunctive mood.
Show more
The parallelism in (A) creates an illogical meaning. Take another look:

Quote:
The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.
Show more
Here, the parallel elements are "solitary confinement" and "hard labor," making it seems as though prisoners are held in solitary confinement and held in hard labor. You can do hard labor. You can recommend hard labor. But held in hard labor? Nah.

Contrast that with (C):

Quote:
The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners.
Show more
Notice that the same two elements are parallel, but now the both are preceded by "advocating," so the reformers were advocating solitary confinement and advocating hard labor. That makes way more sense.

Because (C) creates a more logical meaning than (A), it's a better answer. Simple as that.

I hope that helps!
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 11 Feb 2022, 00:49
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.r
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(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
The meaning isn't perfect therefore out

(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
'their' isn't having the right reference back therefore out

(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
The meaning is fine precise and concise therefore let us hang on to it

(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform
'who' does it refer to absolutely clueless therefore out

(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labour
THis doesn't make any sense at all straight out elemination

Therefore IMO C
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 24 Feb 2022, 01:11
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Hello,

In option C, isn't option "C" using wrong tense? "Advocating" is present tense whereas the action happened in the past.

Thank,
Vaishali
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 24 Feb 2022, 01:53
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Vaishali2004
Hello,

In option C, isn't option "C" using wrong tense? "Advocating" is present tense whereas the action happened in the past.

Thank,
Vaishali
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Hello Vaishali2004,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, in Option C "advocating" is not an active verb; it is a present participle ("verb+ing"); present participles can be used to refer to any action taking place over a period of time, regardless of the time period.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 25 Feb 2022, 16:30
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Vaishali2004
Hello,

In option C, isn't option "C" using wrong tense? "Advocating" is present tense whereas the action happened in the past.

Thank,
Vaishali
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An "-ing" modifier doesn't have its own inherent tense. Instead, the tense is implied by the context. For example:

  • "The athletes competing in the 2020 Summer Olympics were faced with additional challenges as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic."

We know from the context that this all happened in the past, right? But if we change the context...

  • "The athletes competing in this year's hot dog eating contest are currently adhering to strict training regimens."

...now everything is clearly happening in the present, even though the word "competing" hasn't changed one bit.

The takeaway: verbs certainly have tenses, but "-ing" modifiers (i.e. "competing" and "advocating") do not.

For more on the "-ing" modifier in (C), check out this post. And this article features a painfully long rant about "-ing" words on the GMAT.

I hope that helps!
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers Updated on: 21 Jul 2022, 04:18
Originally posted by Ccccc1111111 on 03 Jun 2022, 10:14.
Last edited by Ccccc1111111 on 21 Jul 2022, 04:18, edited 1 time in total.
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.
(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
(B) who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners
(D) who advocated solitary confinement and hard labor for the means of prisoner reform
(E) advocating as the means for prisoner reform solitary confinement and hard labor

same parts
1.
someone who were advocating prisoners ...
=someone (who were) advocating prisoners ...

someone who advocated....
=someone advocating....

3.
advocate A as B
advocate as B A
in this sentence, you don't have to exchange the latter part, but it is correct grammar.


the wrong part
1. grammar
(A)(B) be held in solitary confinement and hard labor
not be held in hard labor

2.meaning
the statement is someone advocate sth and sth to do sth/for sth
so
to correct the answer(D)(E)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(C) as the means to reform prisoners (OK)
(D) for the means of prisoners' reform
(E) as the means for prisoners' reform

THERE IS A HINT IN THERE:check the (B) their reform

3.ambiguous
(A)The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by [b]reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them
them? who are them?

(B)The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers who were advocating prisoners to be held in solitary confinement and hard labor for their reform
their? who are their?
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 03 Jun 2022, 23:08
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(C) advocating solitary confinement and hard labour as the means to reform prisoners
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If some one is confused between usage of "who" vs "verb+ING" modifier then the following error will help you to shortlist the option.

Option C is delivering very much clear meaning.

The doer of verb "reform" is placed next to it.

Use of "As a mean to reform" is correct over "a mean for reform"

So, Option C is better.
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woohoo921
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 22 Jul 2022, 17:28
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GMATNinja
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Could you please explain why option C is better than option A?
What makes option A wrong here?
I chose A because it follows subjunctive mood.
The parallelism in (A) creates an illogical meaning. Take another look:

Quote:
The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.
Here, the parallel elements are "solitary confinement" and "hard labor," making it seems as though prisoners are held in solitary confinement and held in hard labor. You can do hard labor. You can recommend hard labor. But held in hard labor? Nah.

Contrast that with (C):

Quote:
The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating solitary confinement and hard labor as the means to reform prisoners.
Notice that the same two elements are parallel, but now the both are preceded by "advocating," so the reformers were advocating solitary confinement and advocating hard labor. That makes way more sense.

Because (C) creates a more logical meaning than (A), it's a better answer. Simple as that.

I hope that helps!
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GMATNinja

Thank you for this helpful explanation. I am hoping to clarify with you on the discussion of the "them" being a vague pronoun in Choice A.

This is INCORRECT because it uses a vague pronoun! It’s unclear in the sentence if the pronoun “them” is referring to the prisoners reforming themselves, or if the prisoners are reforming the reformers.

I remember your very helpful lesson on the word "they" in that if "they" appears after a subject, it must logically refer back to the subject. Why doesn't "them" work similar to "they" in that it refers back to the closest subject... the "prisoners" in Choice A?

Could you also please further explain the difference between "at sometime" vs "sometime" vs "some time"?

Thank you for all of your help.
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The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers 22 Jul 2022, 19:04
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woohoo921

on the discussion of the "them" being a vague pronoun in Choice A.

The Eastern State Penitentiary was established in 1822 by reformers advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them.

(A) advocating that prisoners be held in solitary confinement and hard labor so as to reform them

THEM is ambiguous in (A) compared to the correct answer choice. It's also worth looking at the usage of AND.
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