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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 19:55
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FinanceMan
Interesting take bb,

I see both sides of the coin here. On one side, those who have a 700+ GMAT and a solid profile should apply with their GMAT. On the other side, you may have some applicants who have phenomenal professional experience, have shown a lot of professional growth and who have great LORs who may just not be great at taking standardized exams. They may also not have the time to give to prep as they may work 40+ hours per week with a spouse and kids.

It was actually Darden, and I verified on their website, that they are doing a pilot for the 2020-2021 application cycle where they are offering a standardized exam waiver for those who have:

1) A strong undergraduate and/or graduate record including performance in analytical coursework or disciplines
2) CPA or CFA designation or other professional certification/discipline
3) Master's or advanced degree in an analytical discipline
4) Seven (7) or more years of progressive, professional work experience in an analytical field
5) Strong performance on a U.S. college admissions test (SAT and/or ACT) or a national exam administered for admission to bachelor's study in other countries.

Maybe MIT is having similar thoughts in that there are various ways to determine if someone is ready for the MBA journey without the need of the GMAT/GRE?

bb
MIT Sloan has removed the GMAT/GRE requirement for all 2020-21 Applicants!

Quote:
Standardized tests, such as GMAT, GRE, EA, TOEFL, IELTS, are a component of the application process and play an important role in our holistic evaluation process. However, in view of challenges brought about by the coronavirus pandemic, we will allow candidates for the 2020-21 admission cycle to submit their application without the test and review their submitted material as is and without negative inferences. If admitted, candidates will not be required to take a test.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/admissions/how-to-apply


Pretty crazy! I am wondering if it is Good or Bad? On one hand, anyone can apply who wishes to pay the $250 application fee.... so seems good but does it make it harder for people to stand out now? would over-represented groups be even more over-represented? Does it make easeir for people from weird or unique backgrounds to get in?

Edit:
Personally I am mixed on this change. I think the threshold for entry is definitely lower with this change. As the result, the applicant pool will definitely go up and the diversity will go up as well (potentially good) as people from a variety of backgrounds will apply without a need to have a 3-month prep period for the GMAT/GRE. At the same time, I feel this change so late before the deadline (less than 2 weeks until R1) is really really not helpful for the serious applicants who have worked hard and are in teh submission stages of their application. I feel this change is a bit desperate to be so last minute, esp when GMAC has just announced GMAT can be taken online again for 1 extra retake and GRE has been chugging along pretty well all this time. I feel the folks who have struggled with the GMAT should definitely find this as super positive news. At the same time, considering the competition and how hard it is to get into MIT Sloan, people who have struggled with the GMAT are not likely to get in anyway and I feel this will be a lot of crushed dreams and done mostly to drive up applications... care to disagree?

P.S. Since other schools require GMAT anyway still (and some have applied already to a few with R1 deadlines), this only makes a difference to a few users who got 660 with a great profile. However, those who are applying to Booth, Wharton, etc are going to take the GMAT anyway and this makes hardly any difference to them. It changes things a bit for R2, giving R2 applicants some additional strategies as I feel a few other schools will follow MIT Sloan so there may be a few options to apply without the test scores.

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Unfortunately, I fall in to this category 'They may also not have the time to give to prep as they may work 40+ hours per week with a spouse and kids.' and am struggling to find some time to prepare !!
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 22:23
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bb
MIT Sloan has removed the GMAT/GRE requirement for all 2020-21 Applicants!

Quote:
Standardized tests, such as GMAT, GRE, EA, TOEFL, IELTS, are a component of the application process and play an important role in our holistic evaluation process. However, in view of challenges brought about by the coronavirus pandemic, we will allow candidates for the 2020-21 admission cycle to submit their application without the test and review their submitted material as is and without negative inferences. If admitted, candidates will not be required to take a test.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/mba/admissions/how-to-apply


Pretty crazy! I am wondering if it is Good or Bad? On one hand, anyone can apply who wishes to pay the $250 application fee.... so seems good but does it make it harder for people to stand out now? would over-represented groups be even more over-represented? Does it make easeir for people from weird or unique backgrounds to get in?

Edit:
Personally I am mixed on this change. I think the threshold for entry is definitely lower with this change. As the result, the applicant pool will definitely go up and the diversity will go up as well (potentially good) as people from a variety of backgrounds will apply without a need to have a 3-month prep period for the GMAT/GRE. At the same time, I feel this change so late before the deadline (less than 2 weeks until R1) is really really not helpful for the serious applicants who have worked hard and are in teh submission stages of their application. I feel this change is a bit desperate to be so last minute, esp when GMAC has just announced GMAT can be taken online again for 1 extra retake and GRE has been chugging along pretty well all this time. I feel the folks who have struggled with the GMAT should definitely find this as super positive news. At the same time, considering the competition and how hard it is to get into MIT Sloan, people who have struggled with the GMAT are not likely to get in anyway and I feel this will be a lot of crushed dreams and done mostly to drive up applications... care to disagree?

P.S. Since other schools require GMAT anyway still (and some have applied already to a few with R1 deadlines), this only makes a difference to a few users who got 660 with a great profile. However, those who are applying to Booth, Wharton, etc are going to take the GMAT anyway and this makes hardly any difference to them. It changes things a bit for R2, giving R2 applicants some additional strategies as I feel a few other schools will follow MIT Sloan so there may be a few options to apply without the test scores.
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Agreed with the PS part especially. I took my GMAT mid August and sent my score to MIT. Now I know that I didn't score enough to stand a chance at MIT but I get how the ones who did might feel.

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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 22:45
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It’s very difficult right now. Since many seats are already full due to deferrals and small class size as the Adcom mentioned, chances are the 425 seats are already occupied.

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Is this something you assume or something you know for sure? How many deferrals have been given at MIT due to COVID?
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firas92

Agreed with the PS part especially. I took my GMAT mid August and sent my score to MIT. Now I know that I didn't score enough to stand a chance at MIT but I get how the ones who did might feel.

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I think technically if you do not submit a score on your application, even if you have sent in the score report to a school, they could not use it or maybe that’s too strong of a word and I should say they would not use it?

The way it is supposed to work, you self-report a score on the application, and then the business school verifies with the GMAT database that that is indeed your score. If you don’t indicate one, then theoretically they would not be going in looking at verifying
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 22:49
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[quote="altairahmad"]Could it be because MIT saw a substantial dip in applications / good applications and this is a desperate attempt to balance that out ?

This is certainly going to hurt the chances of the candidates who would want to offset some weak part of their profile through a strong GMAT score.

I think this is a bit unfair for MIT to have waived off GMAT at this stage.

[size=80][b][i]Posted from my mobile device[/i][/b][/size][/quote]

I could see how there might be a dip if many applicants went for the late Round that they offered in June and dont want/can’t make the effort to apply again in this round, but suddenly dropping the GMAT mid app?
It is a bit strange with only ~10 days until deadline.
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 22:51
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pfrancisco

I could see how there might be a dip if many applicants went for the late Round that they offered in June and dont want/can’t make the effort to apply again in this round, but suddenly dropping the GMAT mid app?
It is a bit strange with only ~10 days until deadline.
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I agree. I am equally baffled. Could it be a slap into the GMAC’s face? The purpose of the move is not very clear...

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pfrancisco

I could see how there might be a dip if many applicants went for the late Round that they offered in June and dont want/can’t make the effort to apply again in this round, but suddenly dropping the GMAT mid app?
It is a bit strange with only ~10 days until deadline.

I agree. I am equally baffled. Could it be a slap into the GMAC’s face? The purpose of the move is not very clear...

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I am not sure. I dont know if restrictions on testing centers are still in place in many places that prevent people from taking the GMAT amd therefore cant reach the deadline. Also GMAT Online/GRE are still available.

I think the GMAT is a good measuring tool and an important part of the application but what is more interesting is the timing and knowing that there are people who have already submitted and that this can affect them.

I was following the decision tracker the past few days and it is true that Sloan was showing only 2 submitted applications (1 of them was mine haha) but I am not sure if that is normal since there is still time until the deadline or if that really shows a drop in apps.
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pfrancisco

I could see how there might be a dip if many applicants went for the late Round that they offered in June and dont want/can’t make the effort to apply again in this round, but suddenly dropping the GMAT mid app?
It is a bit strange with only ~10 days until deadline.

I agree. I am equally baffled. Could it be a slap into the GMAC’s face? The purpose of the move is not very clear...

Posted from my mobile device

I am not sure. I dont know if restrictions on testing centers are still in place in many places that prevent people from taking the GMAT amd therefore cant reach the deadline. Also GMAT Online/GRE are still available.

I think the GMAT is a good measuring tool and an important part of the application but what is more interesting is the timing and knowing that there are people who have already submitted and that this can affect them.

I was following the decision tracker the past few days and it is true that Sloan was showing only 2 submitted applications (1 of them was mine haha) but I am not sure if that is normal since there is still time until the deadline or if that really shows a drop in apps.
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In my experience only exceptional individuals update the decision tracker when submitting the apps. I think many do after they are done, and sometimes days and weeks after... but we can check and compare it to last year I guess. It is an interesting idea ?
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 23:17
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Its vague, its pathetic. You can't change the rules of a game suddenly.
I have worked hard for monhts to get a score. Now, I suddenly compete with someone, who didn't put anytime in preparation.
What about test bodies like GMAC? Have you consulted them before taking this move.

There is no clarity whatsoever.
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AmitPandey025
Its vague, its pathetic. You can't change the rules of a game suddenly.
I have worked hard for monhts to get a score. Now, I suddenly compete with someone, who didn't put anytime in preparation.
What about test bodies like GMAC? Have you consulted them before taking this move.

There is no clarity whatsoever.
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Food point!!! And one I have failed to see and consider.... yes, though I can’t see anyone throwing together an awesome app in 10 days, it is definitely possible if someone with strong profile who was applying to Simon with 650 or BU with 600 can now throw their hat into the ring. My guess the UG GPA just got a lot more important for those folks...

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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 18 Sep 2020, 23:29
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I agree. I am equally baffled. Could it be a slap into the GMAC’s face? The purpose of the move is not very clear...

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I am not sure. I dont know if restrictions on testing centers are still in place in many places that prevent people from taking the GMAT amd therefore cant reach the deadline. Also GMAT Online/GRE are still available.

I think the GMAT is a good measuring tool and an important part of the application but what is more interesting is the timing and knowing that there are people who have already submitted and that this can affect them.

I was following the decision tracker the past few days and it is true that Sloan was showing only 2 submitted applications (1 of them was mine haha) but I am not sure if that is normal since there is still time until the deadline or if that really shows a drop in apps.

In my experience only exceptional individuals update the decision tracker when submitting the apps. I think many do after they are done, and sometimes days and weeks after... but we can check and compare it to last year I guess. It is an interesting idea ?
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Yeah I am sure the number of people who take the time to do it is very small but still there might be some correlation with last year’s number as you mentioned

To be honest I am not going crazy over Sloan’s decision since I am around the average on the GMAT and other parts of my app will become important to evaluate me against others.

I can understand other people with lower GMATs (who were relying on other parts pf their app for a chance) to be upset since this will open up the doors to people without a GMAT that may have a strong profile aside of it to jump into the pool and drop GMAT’s importance (consequently recuding the chances of the former).
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 19 Sep 2020, 00:25
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Will the application without GMAT score be considered for scholarship?
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That's what we are talking about. There's so transparecy whatsoever!
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Looks like there has been a falling out between MIT and test taking companies. However, I do not appreciate this decision at ALL.

As someone who is married and has an extremely demanding job, I even had to use my annual vacations for GMAT prep. And now this ? Not welcome at all.

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There's may be falling, but changing rules at the last moment is pathetic.
No matter how good a school, this is a disastrous move.

When the GMAC/ETS has done all the hard work implementing all softwares so that test taking can easily be accommodated at home, this comes as a schok to many!

Moreover, schools don't value $250 at all. May be they just want to increase the application so that thye can boost how amazing the program looks on the paper.
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I’m sharing my two cents here after having discussed the GMAT waiver decision with one member of the Adcom and a Vet at MIT. They believe a candidate with a strong profile but a poor GPA has a chance to prove intellectual ability through a strong GMAT score and are welcome to submit it. For those who have a strong GPA from a good UNI have proved their ability to handle academic course load and GMAT doesn’t add any additional value there. Without a strong profile a candidate doesn’t stand a good chance of bagging an admit at the M7 with or without a great GMAT.
Therefore they believe that one must use one’s best judgement after thinking through whether a GMAT score actually helps strengthen one’s case - strictly on the intellectual ability side of things.
If you have a Low GPA it’s better to submit a strong GMAT rather than get dinged because the school doesn’t think you’re smart enough.

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MilitaryPilot
I’m sharing my two cents here after having discussed the GMAT waiver decision with one member of the Adcom and a Vet at MIT. They believe a candidate with a strong profile but a poor GPA has a chance to prove intellectual ability through a strong GMAT score and are welcome to submit it. For those who have a strong GPA from a good UNI have proved their ability to handle academic course load and GMAT doesn’t add any additional value there. Without a strong profile a candidate doesn’t stand a good chance of bagging an admit at the M7 with or without a great GMAT.
Therefore they believe that one must use one’s best judgement after thinking through whether a GMAT score actually helps strengthen one’s case - strictly on the intellectual ability side of things.
If you have a Low GPA it’s better to submit a strong GMAT rather than get dinged because the school doesn’t think you’re smart enough.

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Ok but MIT realised this now after these many years ? The question is, why now ? Why in the middle of app ?

This doesn't look like something that would have taken MIT decades to figure out.
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That’s right! That’s basic.
Isn’t this too late to figure this!

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MilitaryPilot
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 19 Sep 2020, 01:04
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MIT - essentially a tech school.
China - essentially a feeder to tech schools.

No GMAT in China, No Chinese coming through their program.
If they waive off the test for only the affected regions its essentially a bias.

Therefore they are keeping it simple. And they have been hinting at being flexible with the GMAT for a while now.

GMAC for now is unable to provide any concrete date for administering the test in certain regions of the world.

Don't be surprised if you see other top schools joining the GMAT waiver pack.

Kellogg had done it for their last round in the last cycle.
Harvard is considering applications without a score.

How do you figure they are deciding on interviewing folks without the GMAT? Of course admit without a GMAT is another story and it'll unfold sometime next year.

altairahmad
MilitaryPilot
I’m sharing my two cents here after having discussed the GMAT waiver decision with one member of the Adcom and a Vet at MIT. They believe a candidate with a strong profile but a poor GPA has a chance to prove intellectual ability through a strong GMAT score and are welcome to submit it. For those who have a strong GPA from a good UNI have proved their ability to handle academic course load and GMAT doesn’t add any additional value there. Without a strong profile a candidate doesn’t stand a good chance of bagging an admit at the M7 with or without a great GMAT.
Therefore they believe that one must use one’s best judgement after thinking through whether a GMAT score actually helps strengthen one’s case - strictly on the intellectual ability side of things.
If you have a Low GPA it’s better to submit a strong GMAT rather than get dinged because the school doesn’t think you’re smart enough.

Posted from my mobile device

Ok but MIT realised this now after these many years ? The question is, why now ? Why in the middle of app ?

This doesn't look like something that would have taken MIT decades to figure out.
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Calling all MIT Sloan MBA Applicants: 2021 Intake (Class of 2023) 19 Sep 2020, 01:13
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MilitaryPilot
MIT - essentially a tech school.
China - essentially a feeder to tech schools.

No GMAT in China, No Chinese coming through their program.
If they waive off the test for only the affected regions its essentially a bias.

Therefore they are keeping it simple. And they have been hinting at being flexible with the GMAT for a while now.

GMAC for now is unable to provide any concrete date for administering the test in certain regions of the world.

Don't be surprised if you see other top schools joining the GMAT waiver pack.

Kellogg had done it for their last round in the last cycle.
Harvard is considering applications without a score.

How do you figure they are deciding on interviewing folks without the GMAT? Of course admit without a GMAT is another story and it'll unfold sometime next year.

altairahmad
MilitaryPilot
I’m sharing my two cents here after having discussed the GMAT waiver decision with one member of the Adcom and a Vet at MIT. They believe a candidate with a strong profile but a poor GPA has a chance to prove intellectual ability through a strong GMAT score and are welcome to submit it. For those who have a strong GPA from a good UNI have proved their ability to handle academic course load and GMAT doesn’t add any additional value there. Without a strong profile a candidate doesn’t stand a good chance of bagging an admit at the M7 with or without a great GMAT.
Therefore they believe that one must use one’s best judgement after thinking through whether a GMAT score actually helps strengthen one’s case - strictly on the intellectual ability side of things.
If you have a Low GPA it’s better to submit a strong GMAT rather than get dinged because the school doesn’t think you’re smart enough.

Posted from my mobile device

Ok but MIT realised this now after these many years ? The question is, why now ? Why in the middle of app ?

This doesn't look like something that would have taken MIT decades to figure out.
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I don't find the China argument convincing. It certainly can be a factor, but a driving factor ? Maybe. China was the first globally to go towards normalization, more than half of the test center locations in China are currently open. Yes,there is no GMAT Online in China so that could have played it's part.

But this didn't happen suddenly, right ? Like a few days back ? But MIT has made it seem like so. Because it seems like MIT wasn't aware of what is going on in the world (based on the China argument). This decision could have been taken well in advance.

Most of the in-person testing centers of GMAC are open (their website says so). Perhaps MIT could have slightly delayed the admission cycle.

It will be even interesting to know if this GMAT/GRE optional thing is here to stay or is it only for this year/next.
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