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According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 27 Feb 2014, 02:24
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I use standard sentence as following to see the balance of comparison in given question.

Same subject doing two different action:
In world war 2 as many Americans were killed as were killed in Vietnam war. simply verb is expected in later half of comparison.

Cut the crap and compare it with above standard sentence.
as many independent institutions charge fees of under 8,000$ as charge over 16,000$.

I would suggest you write down simple sentences in every possible manner by moving verb inside outside of as many as or every possible way. This exercise will surely help you in understanding the flow of comparison.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2014, 02:17
I am not sure whether the below construction is correct

Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (or) (Here "do" is in ellipsis) <--- is this correct?
Correct. The structure is: Americans ...as [........] as Indians... ==> The parallel structure is maintained.

While parallel struture is maintained, the comaprison itself is ambigous if we go by the meaning.
Meaning 1: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as they are to buy Indians
Meaning 2: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as are Indians (I think use of do is incorrect)
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2014, 02:29
NS13983 wrote:
I am not sure whether the below construction is correct


Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (or) (Here "do" is in ellipsis) <--- is this correct?
Correct. The structure is: Americans ...as [........] as Indians... ==> The parallel structure is maintained.

While parallel structure is maintained, the comparison itself is ambiguous if we go by the meaning.
Meaning 1: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as they are to buy Indians
Meaning 2: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as are Indians (I think use of do is incorrect)


As per my knowledge Do, does and did are versatile verb you can put these verbs to replace any verb, but in above case are look much appropriate to keep parallelism. I think some expert should confirm this.

Yes following sentence is ambiguous:
Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (wrong)

Americans are twice as likely as Indians [are] to buy pizza (right)
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 05 Dec 2014, 22:04
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A survey compares entities/actions within a specific time frame. Here, the intent is to compare how much certain institutions (currently) charge versus how much some other institutions (currently) charge. In other words, the survey is comparing two "dynamic" entities -- based on how much they charge today:
1. X institutions (currently) charge over $16K.
2. More than 3X institutions (currently) charge under $8K. (Set C of institutions)

Choice E converts St. 1 about institutions that currently charge over $16K (a dynamic set) into a statement about institutions that have charged over $16K over the course of history ("institutions charging over $16K"). These institutions (Set A) may or may not be charging over $16K today. Additionally, other institutions that traditionally did not charge over $16K (Set B) may have hiked their fees and could be charging over $16K today.

The survey compares Set C to "Set A + Set B" but the wording of Choice E makes it compare Set C (a dynamic set) to only Set A (a static set).

By including the verb, "charge" (versus the adjective, "charging"), Choice D makes it clear that the survey correctly compares institutions that currently charge under $8K to those that currently charge over $16K.
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Last edited by prasi55 on 05 Dec 2014, 22:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2014, 22:00
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A survey compares entities/actions within a specific time frame. Here, the intent is to compare how much certain institutions (currently) charge versus how much some other institutions (currently) charge. In other words, the survey is comparing two "dynamic" entities -- based on how much they charge today:
1. X institutions (currently) charge over $16K.
2. More than 3X institutions (currently) charge under $8K. (Set C of institutions)

Choice E converts St. 1 about institutions that currently charge over $16K (a dynamic set) into a statement about institutions that have charged over $16K over the course of history ("institutions charging over $16K"). These institutions (Set A) may or may not be charging over $16K today. Additionally, other institutions that traditionally did not charge over $16K (Set B) may have hiked their fees and could be charging over $16K today.

The survey compares Set C to "Set A + Set B" but the wording of Choice E makes it compare Set C (a dynamic set) to only Set A (a static set).

By including the verb, "charge" (versus the adjective, "charging"), Choice D makes it clear that the survey correctly compares institutions that currently charge under $8K to those that currently charge over $16K.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2015, 09:09
Here the institutions that charge under $8000 are in comparison with those institutions that charge over $1000. The phrase more than three times is a diversion from the core of the topic. The idiom should be ‘as much as’ .Let us dump A B and C, for missing the 'as much as' structure.
Between D and E: The elements that are being compared should be clearly stated rather than leaving to imagination. 'As charge' may be mistaken to modify the noun phrase 'tuition and fees of under $8000 a year'. In order to avoid these pit falls, the word 'those' should be necessarily mentioned to make it clear that it is these two types of institutions that are under comparison. That is the reason that D is a doubtful contender.

So E is better; here ‘charging’ is a present participle modifier that describes those institutions.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 27 Oct 2015, 10:41
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D has to be the right answer.

Simplest point to notice is parallelism. For brevity let's make it simpler, E says: 3X as many colleges charge under 8k as [colleges] charging 16k. - as many X as Y construction where X = Subject+Verb and Y = Noun+Noun Modifier. Certainly not parallel.

D says: 3X as many colleges charge under 8k as [colleges] charge 16k - correct, maintains ||ism properly.

The main confusion that prevails in many previous discussions is: whether number of colleges are compared or the way they charge? This is certainly a confusion in this lengthy sentence but think about a similarly constructed straightforward sentence:

Along the jogging track, 3 times as many people walk swiftly as walk slowly.

- makes perfect sense without any confusion, I guess. Note that the object of comparison is the way they walk and not the number of people.
In fact, look closely in the matter, relative number of people does not matter at all. How? remove the phrase 3 times and see: Along the jogging track, as many people walk swiftly as walk slowly - still makes perfect sense.
The way the original sentence is written, it is clear that the action of charging is compared and thus, D is the correct answer.

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2016, 04:28
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Nick90 wrote:
Divyadisha wrote:
skg wrote:
According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College an University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.

A) than those that charge
B) than are charging
C) than to charge
D) as charge
E) as those charging


As X as Y is the correct idiom; hence, only D and E are left.

The comparison says more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition fee of under 8000 as institutions that charge 16000

In option E 'Charging' is not parallel to Charge , and hence is a wrong option.

D is the right answer


but as per egmat explanation "charging" meand "that charge" ...... so logically E is also correct .

please correct me , If i am wrong here .


I am copying the my own previous post here in case you missed it. If you are differ with this post, I would be happy to discuss further on arriving at a meaningful explanation.

"A simpler construction might help understand the complex question better:
Three times as many students like football as like basketball.

The correct comparison marker is as.... as. The combination as... than is wrong (than must go with a comparative adjective, not with as)

Therefore A,B and C can be eliminated.

The compared elements are:

3X institutions charge low fees (< $8000) and X institutions charge high fees (>$16,000). Two verbs charge and charge are being compared.

In option E,the parallelism is lost because charge and charging are compared.

Therefore D is correct."[/quote]

In option E, one element is a verb (charge) and other a participle (charging).
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jun 2016, 22:43
rohitbansal1507 wrote:
I'm not convinced with your explanation. As I've studied in eGMAT we can definitely use "ing" form as a verb as well. In option "E" charging has been used as verb and not participle. This is the definition of participle:

a word formed from a verb (e.g. going, gone, being, been ) and used as an adjective (e.g. working woman, burnt toast ) or a noun (e.g. good breeding ). In English participles are also used to make compound verb forms (e.g. is going, has been )

"Charging" in E doesn't satisfy any of the two usages of participle. Its a verb and can be parallel to another verb.

Hi Rohit, as you have rightly mentioned, the -ing form of the verb can pretty much have only the following two usages:
i) As an adjective or
ii) As noun

Since these -ing forms can only be used as adjectives or nouns, how can they be parallel with verbs (for the simple reason that they are different parts of speech!).

Let alone -ing forms not being parallel to verbs; even within the -ing forms, the -ing forms used as adjectives are not parallel to -ing forms used as nouns. This is the reason, our book Sentence Correction Nirvana consistently uses different terminology (participles and gerunds) to refer to the adjective form and noun form of these -ing forms respectively.

Quote:
Also, how do you justify D as correct option? Doesn't it miss the "college" part

In English grammar, this is called ellipsis, wherein certain words are assumed. Just to draw an analogy, following would be correct:

By teenage, ten times as many children study as remain illiterate.

Again, children is implied in the second half.

By the way, in the sentence under consideration, I would go so much to the extent that even charge is not really required (though option D does use it from a clarity perspective). So, following would have been fine as well (though I admit that I have not given it too much thought; would like to invite comments):

....more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year as over $16,000
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jun 2016, 10:29
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Not sure if these examples would help people understand the structure:

1. More people walk than drive.
2. Twice as many people walk as drive.
3. More people own guns than own cars.
4. Twice as many people own guns as own cars.
5. More independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than charge over $16,000.
5. More than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year as charge over $16,000.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jul 2016, 07:49
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Tobybun wrote:
mayankbhatnagar wrote:
OA is E....it uses idiom as X as Y

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


Yes, I got the idiomatic bit of it. However, what about charge || charging? I think option e is breaking parallelism


It is acceptable to omit repeated parts of the second element of two elements in parallel. Before the omission the sentence (simplified for easy understanding) is as follows:

More than three times as many institutions charge low fees as institutions charge high fees.

The blue font and green font portions are parallel elements.


It is allowed to omit the repeated part (institutions) from the second element ( green font). After omission the sentence becomes:
More than three times as many institutions charge low fees as instituionscharge high fees.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jul 2016, 12:10
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Tobybun wrote:
According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University
Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher
education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over
$16,000

A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging


This sentence has a LOT of fluff that gets in the way of locating the correct answer.

GIVEN: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000

IGNORE THE FLUFF: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many THINGS DO one thing ______________something else

For parallelism, the blank needs something like "as DO"

We get: Three times as many THINGS DO one thing as DO something else

Answer:

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 20 Aug 2016, 11:20
manhasnoname wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:

A simpler construction might help understand the complex question better:
Three times as many students like football as like basketball.

The correct comparison marker is as.... as. The combination as... than is wrong (than must go with a comparative adjective, not with as)

Therefore A,B and C can be eliminated.

The compared elements are:

3X institutions charge low fees (< $8000) and X institutions charge high fees (>$16,000). Two verbs charge and charge are being compared.

In option E,the parallelism is lost because charge and charging are compared.

Therefore D is correct.


Sure, verb parallelism is achieved in (E). But, isn't it comparing institutions with charge as opposed to institutions with institutions?


I am not clear about your query. How verb parallelism is achieved in E? In E, a present participle modifier is made parallel to a verb. Could you clarify your query?

If you meant "D" rather "E" then my post above could help explain, why the parallelism is correct in D. Please note that the repeated "institutions" has been omitted from the second element of parallel structure.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 10 Feb 2017, 01:29
manhasnoname wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
Tobybun wrote:

Yes, I got the idiomatic bit of it. However, what about charge || charging? I think option e is breaking parallelism


It is acceptable to omit repeated parts of the second element of two elements in parallel. Before the omission the sentence (simplified for easy understanding) is as follows:

More than three times as many institutions charge low fees as institutions charge high fees.

The blue font and green font portions are parallel elements.


It is allowed to omit the repeated part (institutions) from the second element ( green font). After omission the sentence becomes:
More than three times as many institutions charge low fees as instituionscharge high fees.


Would it still be correct if "charge" is omitted?
More than three times as many institutions charge low fees as instituions charge high fees.



Yes, even a verb can be omitted, if it has already been used in the first element of the parallel structure and the meaning is not obscured or ambiguous. For example, following is an ambiguous sentence:

I like chocolates more than Deepika.

The above may have two meanings:
I like chocolates more than Deepika (likes chocolates).
I like chocolates more than (I like) Deepika.

In such cases omission is not acceptable.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 18 Apr 2017, 12:15
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The answer is definitely (D) here.

The biggest issue in this question is the (very cleverly disguised) idiom "as many... as". We use the phrase "as many... as" pretty frequently in normal language:

  • Chuck eats three times as many burritos as Mike. --> no problem, right?
  • Chuck eats more than three times as many burritos as Mike. --> still no problem, right?

Both of these are acceptable, it's just that they're saying slightly different things. But you wouldn't say either of these:

  • Chuck eats three times as many burritos than Mike.
  • Chuck eats more than three times as many burritos than Mike.

You could say "as many... as" or "more than" -- but "as many... than" is simply wrong. The error in (A), (B), and (C) is exactly the same as in these last two examples. It's just that the construction is more complicated, so it's harder to spot the error. For example, here's answer choice (C):

Quote:
more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than charge over $16,000


There are a ton of words separating "as many" from "than" -- and that makes it really, really hard to see the mistake. And yes, this is a nasty little trick that you're likely to see in other GMAT SC questions.

Anyway, that leaves us with (D) and (E). As several people have mentioned, there's a parallelism issue in (E), but to be fair, it's really subtle. Here are (D) and (E) again, with a few words stripped out to make it easier to see what's happening:

    (D) "... three times as many institutions charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year as charge over $16,000."
    (E) "... three times as many institutions charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year as those charging over $16,000."

The parallelism is much, much clearer in (D): "three times as many institutions do X as do Y." In (E), we're basically saying "three times as many institutions do X as institutions doing Y."

But to be fair: man, this question is tough, and I can introduce you to a whole bunch of people who missed this on their practice tests... and still scored in the mid-700s on the real thing just a few weeks later. :)
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 20 Apr 2017, 21:21
Here is my approach!

According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8000 a year than those that charge over $16000.

A. than those that charge

--> the correct idiom is as ... as ... , not as .... than ....

B. than are charging

--> the correct idiom is as ... as ... , not as .... than ....

C. than to charge

--> the correct idiom is as ... as ... , not as .... than ....

D. as charge

--> In idiom as X as Y, X and Y should be parallel. X is many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8000 a year --> so X is a complete sentence with Subject + Verb --> Y should be a complete sentence with Subject +Verb too. But the subject of X and Y is the same and by ellipsis, we can omit Subject and left with Verb.

I suggest that we should have verb after as in comparison.

E. as those charging

--> First of all, we must notice the quantitative maker many.

I think this option E makes an illogical comparison between many independent institutions ... (which donotes a number) and those (independent institutions) charging (which is a noun) --> illogical.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2017, 08:13
can anyone please explain what the correct answer is? Still confused between D and E.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2017, 09:07
Noyonika wrote:
can anyone please explain what the correct answer is? Still confused between D and E.


Hi Noyonika ,

Correct answer is option D.

According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year as charge over $16,000.

Notice that we are comparing one set of institutions that charge under $8000 and another set that charges over $16000.

So, we should say as many institutions charge over $8000 as institutions charge over $16000.

Did you notice the comparison of institutions based on the fees they charge?

Do you think "one set of institutions that charge under $8000 and another set charging over $16000." is || ?

The answer is NO. Hence, E is not correct because it is saying those charging on one side and those charge on another side.

A per the ||ism rule, if we are saying as X as Y ==> X and Y must be ||. Hence, E is incorrect.

Let me know if you any specific question.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jul 2017, 04:01
This question comes from both 1000 series and GMATPrep EP1. In 1000 series, the answer is E. In GMATPrep EP1, the answer is D. This is why so many people asked for the correct answer as two sources made them confused.

The correct answer is D as many experts explained in previous posts. Kindly read those posts before making any question/report.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jul 2017, 09:57
hi, the explaination to this question points towards option E, which I chose. However the OA is D. please explain why is D correct and E incorrect. thanks
Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and   [#permalink] 02 Jul 2017, 09:57

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