Calling all US Military Fall 2017 Applicants!

Some interesting data on odds of admission from the folks over at S2S:
https://service2school.org/2016/08/03/wh ... -programs/

2 weeks to HBS deadline, 4 weeks to Kellogg and Booth.

Where did the time go

Don, if you got into both Chicago schools, where are you leaning? I am visiting them in about a month.

Hey guys,

I'm leaving active duty next summer and plan to attend a full-time program. However, I feel like the odds are against me. I'm a naval aviator and will be separating with 11 years of service and will be 35 at matriculation. My undergrad GPA in Sociology is less than stellar (2.89) and I'm scheduled to take the GMAT in early Oct (scored 650 and 670 on GMAC practice exams). I've started apps to UCLA, UCI, UCSD, SDSU and USD (focusing on SoCal due to family). I'm also considering Stanford MSx, but I feel that the lack of internship will be a challenge when justifying "industry experience" during the recruitment process.

I've decided to get out due to excessive deployments (5 deployments in 9 years), strong interest in brand/product management, but most importantly, I want the stability to spend time with my wife and son, who is special needs.

Anybody else in my shoes? Thanks for the support and excited to be here.

Hey everyone, this is my first time posting as I just found this message board today. I'm a contracting officer in the Air Force who is trying to decide whether to pursue a JD or an MBA (or maybe a joint program) when I separate in a couple years. When I separate I will be 60% eligible for the GI Bill and 30 years old.

I've already taken the LSAT and scored a 173 but my GPA was only a 3.0 at the Air Force Academy. I also am one class away from my MPP and currently hold a 3.85 GPA in that program. I'm going to start studying for the GMAT soon and hope to decide what the best route for me will be. With my low undergrad GPA, I am unlikely to get any scholarship money to the T-14 law schools. Therefore, I am mainly looking at Virginia, Michigan, and Cal-Berkeley as these are the only public schools in the T-14 where 60% of the GI Bill will go the furthest.

I am about to start studying for the GMAT and plan to take it next spring. How well I do and what B schools/law schools I am accepted to will ultimately determine which route I decide to take. I've always heard that B Schools value work experience a lot, and definitely more than law schools. That being said, does anyone know if my low GPA would automatically preclude me from an acceptance to any of the schools in the M7? Also, is anyone else considering a joint JD/MBA? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Have you considered USC Marshall? They are closer to your GMAT range (692) than UCLA. Acceptance rate is much higher, average GPA runs lower, and average age is 29 (which is old by full-time standards). In terms of employment opportunities, you are going to see a big drop-off between USC and the next schools on your list, whereas UCLA and USC will be pretty similar (same recruiters but lower salaries). I just pulled an employment report from USC, and it looks like their graduates do pretty well. I think if you can get that GMAT close to 700 you have a good shot.

Here's a link for the UCS vets club:
https://clubs.marshall.usc.edu/mmva/about/

Monster LSAT score, nice work! Your GPA will not be an insurmountable issue assuming that you do well on the GMAT (which I'm sure you will based on your LSAT performance). I posted this link before, but if you check it out you'll see that plenty of military candidates get into M7 schools with average or below average GPAs:
https://service2school.org/2016/08/03/wh ... -programs/

The schools also take your major and institution into account. The academies are known to be academically rigorous, so they will be more flexible with your GPA than someone who went to ASU.

Thanks a lot for the information. I greatly appreciate it. I am glad to hear that is the case as it certainly isn't for the holy trinity of law schools (Yale, Harvard, Stanford). Do you have any recommendations for a good online GMAT prep course? I used 7sage to prep for the LSAT and prefer the online method so I can work at my own pace. Thanks.

Everyone has their own preferences. I am a grinder, so I knew that I didn't need to go through a sequenced course or tutoring. I just did thousands of practice problems from various sources. Most people would agree that the GMAT Official Guide (OG) is a must. After that it is up to you. If you know the OG by heart, then it should take you to at least 700.

In terms of third-party options, most go with Manhattan or Veritas. I bought the Manhattan guides and Veritas CATs. Manhattan is the bigger name, but I found Veritas to be much more helpful. The Manhattan problems haven't been updated much in the last 10 years, are written differently than OG problems, and the quant is way too difficult (unrealistically so). If I had to do it over again, I would use the 3-book OG bundle, 7 Veritas CATs for $49, and free GMATPrep software from GMAC. I think if that's all I used I still would have hit 720+.

Lastly, if you were considering a JD/MBA at those Public Ivies, Haas is going to be your toughest bet because of your GPA. They don't take many military candidates, so their profiles are pretty strong. Take a gander at their vets website and you'll see what I mean. For MBA admissions, you are going to have a much better shot at Darden and Ross.

One thing that is rarely taken into consideration is how many military candidates each school usually accepts. If you really dig deeper into the ding analysis on this site, you'll see that a lot of military folks will get an offer from a school like Booth (which takes a ton of military candidates) and then get dinged at Haas. Haas/Sloan/Tuck can become wildcards for vets since their intake is so much smaller. It's more complicated than the rankings and GPA/GMAT averages suggest.

Greetings all! I'm currently an active duty officer, looking to drop my refrad either this year or next year I'll have 6 years time in. I'm mainly looking more so to apply during summer/fall of 2017 for 2018 matriculating class.

As i'm just starting to study for the GMAT, what are your recommendations? Should I grind out the OG 3 book trio first or go right into investing in a full veritas/manhattan course? Heard better reviews about Veritas.

Also heard about hiring admissions counselors, what are your thoughts on that? Do they make a huge difference in your application? They're usually a hefty cost at $2000-4000 for a decent package. I have an undergrad GPA of 3.25 from Boston University, what kind of GMAT should I aim for to get into my top three of GSB, Booth, and HBS?

Lastly, since I majored in Biology as an undergrad, would it be worth while to take an accounting or finance class at a local college this year to prep myself for B-School?

ashe99 - Thank you so much for the feedback. Additionally, I am also considering Marshall. The GMAT is my next hurdle and hopefully I can hit a 700 in October. If not, I plan to retake and hopefully shoot for R2.

tringuyen0243 - I am currently going through the online interactive course with Veritas Prep and it's pretty awesome so far. My instructor (Aaron Pond) is beyond extraordinary and the books they provide you have fantastic lessons, skillbuilders and problem sets. We also get 7 practice exams with the package. You can PM if you have specific questions but so far I am very happy with the course. It's 6 weeks long and I have class Mon and Wed nights, 6-9pm. This fit well into my schedule since I work full time and have a family.

Consultants are expensive, but mine has been critical for me and worth every penny. I think it's different for traditional candidates from consulting/finance backgrounds. They've grown up in the business world and have dozens of contacts that they can turn to for advice. Most of their buddies went to top MBA schools, so they have insight into what the adcoms think is important. We're just not in the same boat, and it can be a real challenge translating your military skillset into business speak. When I was shopping for help, no one beat the tailored experience and price of Military To Business. If you're interested, hit up the dude that created this thread. I cannot praise them enough.

I am just an applicant for this cycle, so I don't want to guess on a GMAT target for you. You can hit up Military To Business for a free personal assessment. Just follow this link:
https://www.militarytobusiness.com/contact-us/

Yes, I recommend taking at least two additional courses. Get an 'A' in both. It will show dedicated interest in the new field that you are pursuing, and also that you can handle the course material. It doesn't matter where: community college and online options are totally fine. Some schools may actually require it before you enroll anyway (Tuck comes to mind). There is a block on every application where you can list these courses. The most common courses that schools recommend are Accounting, Micro, Stats, Calculus, and Finance, but anything business related will help.

fezzcb thanks for the info, I think i'll go with Veritas too. I'll prob review the OG first these next couple months then sign up for a Veritas class in October once work dies down a bit

ashe99 With your experience with military to business, did they start from the very beginning with you and help you through the entire process? I guess I'll research a few more... Veritas offers the counseling as well and a friend of mine used Stacy Blackman Consulting. I guess i'll have to dive into each a little more once I get a solid GMAT score.

Any recommendations on good online institutions that work well with the military to take an accounting/finance class? I've already taken calculus and statistics before both got an A. Wonder if it would even be too late now to apply for a class this semester...

Yes, MtB is cradle to grave coverage. You can start bugging the **** out of them as soon as you sign up, even if you are more than a year away from applying. They are ~40% cheaper than SBC, and probably a better option for veterans. The majority of their consultants are HBS grads who were just in our shoes a few years back.

In terms of schools, I would just go with the cheapest accredited option. You just need to take the course for a grade. Most community colleges have online courses now, so your in-state CC is probably your best option. The most popular selection is UCLA Extension. It is highly reputable, very inexpensive, and offers courses outside of the standard Fall/Spring/Summer schedule. I did not go with them because the exams required proctoring and I am currently deployed, so that would have been difficult to pull off.

I have a bit of a different take on the veteran situation at Haas...I feel like the fact that vets are underrepresented there (both in raw numbers and % of class) relative to other top 10 programs gives strong vet applicants a leg up during the admissions process. In terms of my experiences with Haas, it sure seemed like they were making a concerted effort to boost their veteran numbers and to do everything possible to dispel the "Berkeley hates the military" stereotypes left over from the '60s.

I applied there in October 2010 (R1) and was surprised to be admitted with a 50% scholarship offer. My experiences in talking with current students, alums, staff, and new admits during the application process and admit weekend made me feel very welcome there, to the extent that I still took some time to think things over after getting the R2 call from HBS. To be honest, if Haas had been one of the schools that released R1 decisions prior to the holidays I probably never would have bothered submitting my R2 apps to HBS and Kellogg in early January -- I would have gladly gone to Haas.

Same deal with another Marine infantry officer who ended up attending HBS with me after being admitted there in R2 -- he got an R1 admit from Haas with something like a 70% scholarship offer. Neither of us had profiles that were spectacular relative to the numbers that Haas published.

I would agree that Darden and Ross will have higher odds of admission, but I think that's more a function of both of them having higher admit rates in general than Haas.

Thanks for the plug -- we try to do things on the cheap for a few reasons. One, we realize that the O-2s and O-3s who make up the bulk of our clients haven't been pulling down $120K per year like a lot of your applicant counterparts on the civilian side, so $8,000 for a 3 school package would be pretty silly.

Two, most of us got where we are due to the help of several people -- vet students or alums, primarily -- who worked well below market rates or free in a lot of cases. So while our day jobs and other life obligations don't allow us to run MTB as a charity, we still aren't looking at it as only a way to make as much money as possible.

Plus we don't have to waste money on marketing costs casting a very wide net like a lot of the other consulting firms do. Our marketing budget is basically $0 and we're able to hit pretty close to capacity each year off referrals alone, so there's no customer acquisition costs being reflected in our rates.

The Kellogg JD/MBA is my #1 overall choice. Hopefully I am lucky enough to get into more than one school!

For all the guys still studying for the GMAT, definitely check out Target Test Prep. I spun my wheels with some of the other programs - TTP was a quant game changer for me.