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In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows

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In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Dec 2013, 21:31
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In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.

(A) up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
(B) up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
(C) to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
(D) to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
(E) as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading

comma + with (adverbial modifier) = LINK 1 & LINK 2 & LINK 3 & LINK 4 & LINK 5 & LINK 6 & LINK 7

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/04/science/advocates-of-sustainable-mahogany-harvests-counter-boycott.html

Bigleaf or Honduran mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) is the quintessential tropical rain forest tree. In undisturbed primary forests, it grows to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and a crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees. International trade in mahogany for shipbuilding, fine furniture, cabinetmaking, musical instruments, coffins and other uses has been intense since the 1500's, and the supply of another type called West Indian mahogany, found on Caribbean islands, was exhausted early in this century. Trees of marketable size are now scarce or inaccessible in Central America, and the vast forests of Brazil and Bolivia are the source of much of today's mahogany lumber.

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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2015, 08:53
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Hi, guys! to make life simple, let’s just delve on the core issues.

First get rid of the choices that contain ‘crown that spread”, a blatant SV error. A and C are gone.

Now get rid of E that says ‘as high a height as’ for the flagrant redundancy.

Now B is gone because the sentence turns unparallel with a clause and a phrase being joined by ‘and’.

What are we left with? Just D; Let’s accept it on the face of it because that is the only grammatically correct choice and so the best of the lot.

confidently submit and go to the next question. You will be lucky if you get such an easy question.

Good luck
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Dec 2013, 05:30
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carcass wrote:
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


In this such question lokk at a parallell structure and avoid as much as possible HAVING because most of the time is wrong. NOT always but most of the time

B is not parallel

D is right

Ask if something remains unclear

regards


First method of elimination
A. up to a height of 150 feet --> redundant. Either it should be 'up to 150 feet' or 'to a height of 150 feet'
B. up to 130 feet in height --> same issue as A
C. to as high as 130 feet in height --> redundant and incorrect comparison as X as
D. to a height of 130 feet --> looks fine.
E. as high a height as 130 feet --> same issue as C


Second method of elimination
A. having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread --> The construction is a participle phrase, which needs to be followed by a noun. Second thing, 'spread' is referring to the 'crown', so it should be singular ==> spreads should be used.
B. and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading --> the first 'and' after the comma should introduce an independent clause. But it isn't the case.
C. having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread --> Same issue in A
D. with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads --> parallelism maintained. Crown agrees with 'spreads'
E. having a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading --> Participle phrase needs to be followed by a noun.

One advanced concept, I would like to present here.

1. Having a buttressed trunk, the tree grows to a height of...
->The underlined part is a participle phrase.
->It acts like an adjective.
->It normally is placed at the beginning of a sentence. (And hence, carcass's statement to avoid as much as possible HAVING because most of the time is wrong)

2. The tree grows having a buttressed trunk.
->The underlined part is a gerund phrase.
->It acts like a noun.
->It should be the direct object of a verb.
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New post 28 Dec 2013, 03:48
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sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


In this such question lokk at a parallell structure and avoid as much as possible HAVING because most of the time is wrong. NOT always but most of the time

B is not parallel

D is right

Ask if something remains unclear

regards
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jan 2015, 23:45
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I understand that A is wrong because of pronoun issue...
But, can anyone explain why "up to a height of 130 feet" is redundant.

what makes addition the word "up" redundant ?

Please help...
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New post 10 Jan 2015, 06:51
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navneetb wrote:
I understand that A is wrong because of pronoun issue...

What pronoun issue?

The easiest way to eliminate A is to understand the intended meaning. It should be evident that the crown (of the Honduran mahogany) spreads over the canopy of lesser trees.

However, A says: ....trunk and a crown that spread...

Since A uses a plural verb spread, clearly that is modifying trunk and crown, thereby implying that trunk and crown spread over the canopy of lesser trees! This is clearly nonsensical, since trunk cannot spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
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New post 10 Jan 2015, 07:57
EducationAisle wrote:
navneetb wrote:
I understand that A is wrong because of pronoun issue...

What pronoun issue?

The easiest way to eliminate A is to understand the intended meaning. It should be evident that the crown (of the Honduran mahogany) spreads over the canopy of lesser trees.

However, A says: ....trunk and a crown that spread...

Since A uses a plural verb spread, clearly that is modifying trunk and crown, thereby implying that trunk and crown spread over the canopy of lesser trees! This is clearly nonsensical, since trunk cannot spread over the canopy of lesser trees.



Hi Ashish,
Sorry for that. My mistake...
I agree with you.. There is no pronoun issue.. instead it is plural/singular issue..

Could you please help for my requested question?
>> why "up to a height of 130 feet" is redundant.
>> what makes addition the word "up" redundant ?
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2015, 09:53
navneetb wrote:
>> why "up to a height of 130 feet" is redundant.
>> what makes addition the word "up" redundant ?

When I look closely (and since you ask), I see that it should be either:

i) ..grows up to 130 feet
Or
ii) ..grows to a height of 130 feet

However, as I mentioned in my last post, there is a larger meaning issue with A. Such issues should normally take precedence over redundancy issues.
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2015, 05:49
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


Parallelism, Meaning

Meaning: it is only the crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees

A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread

'spread' is plural, suggesting that 'trunk' and crown spread over which is not reasnable

B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading

'and' produces a sentence fragment

'spreading' modifies both trunk and crown, an illogical meaning

C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread

two modifiers are not parallel: 'having a ...' and 'with a crown'

Also, 'spread' should be 'spreads'

D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads Correct!

Repetition of 'with' separates the two items: 'trunk' and 'crown', making the 'crown' the only word that spreads modifies.

'spreads' agrees with 'crown'

E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading

'spreading' again seems to modify both the 'trunk' and the 'crown', an unreasonable modification since only crown 'spreads'
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Sep 2015, 04:46
I have a few doubts in this question.

Clarification 1.

Here is a gist of the OE

A. Up makes it redundant because trees only grow upwards. And the relative pronoun - 'that' refers to a singular noun crown and hence 'spreads' should be used.
My reasoning- I do not understand this. Up to is used to say that the maximum height is 130 feet, and that the height ranges from 0-130. It has nothing to do with the fact that trees grow upwards. Is the OE wrong?
Also please confirm if the following rule is correct - 'the relative pronoun 'that' refers only to the immediately preceding noun. Or is it just so in this case, because of the intended meaning?

Clarification 2
In the correct option D, is the second 'with' necessary? Would it still be correct without the second 'with'?

Clarification 3

How do we know that the modifier 'with a buttressed trunk .....' is modifying the tree and not 130 feet(height). I know that is completely illogical. But say we had something like

In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows like a mango tree, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees.

Is the above sentence ambiguous?

Thank you very much!
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2015, 10:05
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Icefrog wrote

Quote:
I have a few doubts in this question.

Clarification 1.

Here is a gist of the OE

A. Up makes it redundant because trees only grow upwards. And the relative pronoun - 'that' refers to a singular noun crown and hence 'spreads' should be used.
My reasoning- I do not understand this. Up to is used to say that the maximum height is 130 feet, and that the height ranges from 0-130. It has nothing to do with the fact that trees grow upwards. Is the OE wrong?
Also please confirm if the following rule is correct - 'the relative pronoun 'that' refers only to the immediately preceding noun. Or is it just so in this case, because of the intended meaning?

Clarification 2
In the correct option D, is the second 'with' necessary? Would it still be correct without the second 'with'?

Clarification 3

How do we know that the modifier 'with a buttressed trunk .....' is modifying the tree and not 130 feet(height). I know that is completely illogical. But say we had something like

In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows like a mango tree, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees.
Is the above sentence ambiguous?


Clarification 1. In almost the all the cases, the restrictive pronoun ‘that’ will only refer to the preceding noun. The exception is in such cases when the preceding noun happens to be the modifier of yet another noun that is more relevant. It occurs mostly with nouns that are modified by prepositional phrases. Look at this example:
I like Scotch from Scotland that is part of the UK. Here the relative pronoun cannot refer to Scotch and must necessarily antecede Scotland

But look at this variant

I like Scotch from Scotland that is aged more than three years. – Here ‘that’ cannot refer to Scotland logically. The prepositional modifier ‘from Scotland’ is an essential ingredient of that Scotch made in Scotland.

So maybe I would say the reference of relative pronouns is context driven.


Clarification 2

Quote:
In the correct option D, is the second 'with' necessary? Would it still be correct without the second 'with'?


I would say it is necessary. Look at the parallelism. . ‘And’ is supposed to join two parallels. Without the second ‘with’, the combination becomes one of a prepositional phrase on one side and a noun phrase on the other. However, when you add the second ‘with’, it becomes perfectly parallel with two prepositional phrases. Maybe one might say, we can skip the second one, but nobody will object when the second one as added. I don’t think it will ever be an issue in the Test.

Clarification 3.

The first point is that the ‘with’ modifier with a comma before it is an adverbial modifier and hence would not refer to the noun before. It modifies the subject of the previous clause mahogany and its growing to 130feet. So even, if you put an eligible noun such as a mango tree before the ‘with’, it will not modify the mango tree, since an adverbial modifier is not a noun modifier but a verb modifier. Please note that the moment there is a comma before the modifier, be it either ‘with’ or a verb+ing modifier such as 'having', it will not modify the noun before. However, if you don’t have the comma before, then it will modify the noun lying before. In your revised statement, if you remove the comma before the ‘with’ then it will modify the mango tree forthwith. The difference is the comma.
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Aug 2017, 07:27
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.

(A) up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
(B) up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
(C) to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
(D) to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown thatspreads
(E) as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


Hi, daagh chetan2u
Can you please tell what is that referring here? "buttressed trunk and a crown" or "a crown"
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Aug 2017, 19:49
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DH99 wrote:
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.

(A) up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
(B) up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
(C) to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
(D) to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown thatspreads
(E) as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


Hi, daagh chetan2u
Can you please tell what is that referring here? "buttressed trunk and a crown" or "a crown"



Hi..
Here THAT refers to only crown..
Reason..
1) use of WITH separately with crown.
2) singular SPREADS points to a singular antecedents.

Hope it helps
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Aug 2018, 03:17
daagh chetan2u

DOUBT 1: Can we say that the below sentence is GRAMMATICALLY Right but LOGICALLY wrong:(modified version of choice - A - eliminated "up")

"In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees."

Compund Subject - a buttressed trunk and a crown
Plural verb - spread

this is grammatically ryt as compound subject requires a plural verb. However, only crown can spread and not the trunk. So, the intended meaning is distorted. Is my understanding right? Please clarify.

DOUBT 2 :
"In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that (verb) ......"

In the above sentence, will the verb always be singular due to presence of second "with" ? My doubt is that whether the phrase "with a buttressed trunk and with a crown" can never be a compound subject irrespective of the information which will be followed in the "that" clause?
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Aug 2018, 02:48
daagh wrote:
Icefrog wrote

Quote:
I have a few doubts in this question.

Clarification 1.

Here is a gist of the OE

A. Up makes it redundant because trees only grow upwards. And the relative pronoun - 'that' refers to a singular noun crown and hence 'spreads' should be used.
My reasoning- I do not understand this. Up to is used to say that the maximum height is 130 feet, and that the height ranges from 0-130. It has nothing to do with the fact that trees grow upwards. Is the OE wrong?
Also please confirm if the following rule is correct - 'the relative pronoun 'that' refers only to the immediately preceding noun. Or is it just so in this case, because of the intended meaning?

Clarification 2
In the correct option D, is the second 'with' necessary? Would it still be correct without the second 'with'?

Clarification 3

How do we know that the modifier 'with a buttressed trunk .....' is modifying the tree and not 130 feet(height). I know that is completely illogical. But say we had something like

In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows like a mango tree, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees.
Is the above sentence ambiguous?


Clarification 1. In almost the all the cases, the restrictive pronoun ‘that’ will only refer to the preceding noun. The exception is in such cases when the preceding noun happens to be the modifier of yet another noun that is more relevant. It occurs mostly with nouns that are modified by prepositional phrases. Look at this example:
I like Scotch from Scotland that is part of the UK. Here the relative pronoun cannot refer to Scotch and must necessarily antecede Scotland

But look at this variant

I like Scotch from Scotland that is aged more than three years. – Here ‘that’ cannot refer to Scotland logically. The prepositional modifier ‘from Scotland’ is an essential ingredient of that Scotch made in Scotland.

So maybe I would say the reference of relative pronouns is context driven.


Clarification 2

Quote:
In the correct option D, is the second 'with' necessary? Would it still be correct without the second 'with'?


I would say it is necessary. Look at the parallelism. . ‘And’ is supposed to join two parallels. Without the second ‘with’, the combination becomes one of a prepositional phrase on one side and a noun phrase on the other. However, when you add the second ‘with’, it becomes perfectly parallel with two prepositional phrases. Maybe one might say, we can skip the second one, but nobody will object when the second one as added. I don’t think it will ever be an issue in the Test.

Clarification 3.

The first point is that the ‘with’ modifier with a comma before it is an adverbial modifier and hence would not refer to the noun before. It modifies the subject of the previous clause mahogany and its growing to 130feet. So even, if you put an eligible noun such as a mango tree before the ‘with’, it will not modify the mango tree, since an adverbial modifier is not a noun modifier but a verb modifier. Please note that the moment there is a comma before the modifier, be it either ‘with’ or a verb+ing modifier such as 'having', it will not modify the noun before. However, if you don’t have the comma before, then it will modify the noun lying before. In your revised statement, if you remove the comma before the ‘with’ then it will modify the mango tree forthwith. The difference is the comma.


Finally there is a comment on usage of with. I really appreciate your input. I have had a hard time finding a resource that talks about modifier "comma + with." So in the question above, "comma + with" modifies "the Honduran mahogany grows up..." The modifier intends to say that during the process of growing up to the height of 130 feet, the Honduran mahogany also developed a buttressed trunk and a crown that spreads over... is this correct?

I also encountered a different use of "with" as a modifier which is used to give the result of the action in preceding clause.
Example: Environmental groups have filed a mass of lawsuits against the government's inaction, with the result that the Supereme Court plays a large role in environmental protection than its equivalent does in any other big country - an odd way to set policy.

Can you enlight if the above usage is correct? Also if you have any material on "with" as a modifier usage, please share. Really appreciate it!

Thank you
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Sep 2018, 01:58
apolo wrote:
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


Parallelism, Meaning

Meaning: it is only the crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees

A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread

'spread' is plural, suggesting that 'trunk' and crown spread over which is not reasnable

B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading

'and' produces a sentence fragment

'spreading' modifies both trunk and crown, an illogical meaning

C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread

two modifiers are not parallel: 'having a ...' and 'with a crown'

Also, 'spread' should be 'spreads'

D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads Correct!

Repetition of 'with' separates the two items: 'trunk' and 'crown', making the 'crown' the only word that spreads modifies.

'spreads' agrees with 'crown'

E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading

'spreading' again seems to modify both the 'trunk' and the 'crown', an unreasonable modification since only crown 'spreads'



How do we know that only crown 'spreads'?

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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Sep 2018, 19:44
beatingthegmat wrote:
apolo wrote:
sivasanjeev wrote:
In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread over the canopy of lesser trees.
A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread
B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading
C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread
D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads
E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading


Parallelism, Meaning

Meaning: it is only the crown that spreads over the canopy of lesser trees

A. up to a height of 130 feet, having a buttressed trunk and a crown that spread

'spread' is plural, suggesting that 'trunk' and crown spread over which is not reasnable

B. up to 130 feet in height, and with a buttressed trunk and a crown spreading

'and' produces a sentence fragment

'spreading' modifies both trunk and crown, an illogical meaning

C. to as high as 130 feet in height, having a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spread

two modifiers are not parallel: 'having a ...' and 'with a crown'

Also, 'spread' should be 'spreads'

D. to a height of 130 feet, with a buttressed trunk and with a crown that spreads Correct!

Repetition of 'with' separates the two items: 'trunk' and 'crown', making the 'crown' the only word that spreads modifies.

'spreads' agrees with 'crown'

E. as high a height as 130 feet, having a buttressing trunk and a crown spreading

'spreading' again seems to modify both the 'trunk' and the 'crown', an unreasonable modification since only crown 'spreads'



How do we know that only crown 'spreads'?

Posted from my mobile device

It's not hard to imagine the crown of a tree spreading - we've all, at some point, relaxed under a leafy canopy of spread branches. (And if you haven't, give it a try sometime.) Now try to imagine a trunk spreading. This could be a failure of my imagination, but I can't come up with any sort of image, aside from a bizarre image of a tree trunk melting into a puddle, like in the Terminator movies.

So here's a good unofficial rule of thumb: if the logic of a given sentence construction requires special effects, the construction is not good.

I hope that helps!
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Re: In undisturbed primary forests, the Honduran mahogany grows &nbs [#permalink] 06 Sep 2018, 19:44
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