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605-655 Level|   Meaning/Logical Predication|   Modifiers|   Pronouns|   Subjunctive|   Verb Tense/Form|                           
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude 23 May 2018, 07:41
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As per Manhattan Blog:https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/forums/as-long-as-vs-so-long-as-t21357.html

The difference in meaning is so subtle, I would highly doubt the GMAT would test the difference. However, "as long as" would probably be more likely to show a time interval whereas "so long as" is more of a condition.

I will sit here as long as (for the amount of time) it takes for you to understand the answer.
I will stop talking so long as (with the understanding that) you understand the answer.
Again, I think that this idiom is too subtle to be tested on the GMAT, because I could technically say that I will stop talking as long as you understand the answer: I'll start talking again once you no longer understand the answer.
It means, both can be used interchangeably.

Even in egmat: they have mentioned that "As long as" and "So long as" can be used interchangeably, they mean - "Provided that"



monirjewel
The use of "So long as" is confusing. I crossed out A and D instantly. I thought "as long as" is appropriate idiom here.
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Hi, Can anyone explain why "so long as" is correct? I believe "As long as" should come
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riyahope7
Hi, Can anyone explain why "so long as" is correct? I believe "As long as" should come
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So long as and as long as both mean "provided that" here.
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude 29 Jan 2020, 11:24
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Hello Jeetroy,

This is in response to your PM. Sincere apologies for the late revert.


Your question: Here 'their' is possessive but 'groups' is not. How can a possessive pronoun refer to 'groups'? Is it an exception?

My response: The possessive pronouns can refer to both the possessive and the non-possessive nouns. Hence, the possessive pronoun their correctly refers to the plural non-possessive noun entity groups.

Generally, the non-possessive pronouns refer only to the non-possessive nouns.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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This question tests you on Pronouns.

Let’s look at the options and eliminate the wrong choices:

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

The pronoun ‘they’ in Options A, B and C could refer to two plural entities in the preceding portions. Therefore, these choices are ambiguous.

Eliminate Options A, B and C.

Option E is confusing to say the least. It does not express the intent of the sentence clearly enough. Eliminate.

Option D is the best choice.

Hope this helps!
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude 22 Dec 2020, 11:59
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.


(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be
Show more

I have confusion with "so long as" but I saw it's a correct phrase. A, B, and C have problems with the pronoun referent of THEY, so these options are out.
E has awkward wordy construction " students have an objection to particular activities"
The answer is D
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.


(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
-‘with’ is wrong
-‘will be’ future tense is incorrect; present tense ‘are’ is preferred

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
-‘they’ is ambiguous

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
-‘they’ is ambiguous

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are Correct

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be
-if you get caught up on the use of ‘from’ in D) or ‘thought’ in E), look to the dependent clause after the comma
-‘so long as’ makes more sense within the context of the sentence
-‘but’ introduces a contrast that doesn’t quite make sense with the meaning of the sentence
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude 25 Jul 2021, 22:27
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Hi VeritasKarishma

Quote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be
Show more


From the link :
When I use the definite article 'the', I am implying that I already know what the other infections are. Had it been just "...other infections such as..." in option (A), I would have considered it.

In this particular question, the groups refer to universities. But here also the group has not yet mentioned.
I am just curious to understand in what cases I can reject option with " the" ( if the is difference between options as in question in the link)
What key point I should remember on seeing the . Till so far, i took it as the means something specific , but not in general.
Is this learning enough ?
Please give your comments VeritasKarishma

thanks!
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mSKR
Hi VeritasKarishma

Quote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be


From the link :
When I use the definite article 'the', I am implying that I already know what the other infections are. Had it been just "...other infections such as..." in option (A), I would have considered it.

In this particular question, the groups refer to universities. But here also the group has not yet mentioned.
I am just curious to understand in what cases I can reject option with " the" ( if the is difference between options as in question in the link)
What key point I should remember on seeing the . Till so far, i took it as the means something specific , but not in general.
Is this learning enough ?
Please give your comments VeritasKarishma

thanks!
Show more

We use the definite article "the" to refer to specific things. Either the things need to be mentioned beforehand or they need to be specific.

For example, in the diseases example,
... better control of the other infections that are caused by viruses
would be ok. We are defining what the other infections are. We are looking at a specific group of infections.

In this example, we are talking about some specific groups:
"the groups they give money to..."
Hence, use of 'the' is fine.
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Dear Experts,

Can so_____as be correct and acceptable in GMAT ?
I have never seen so____as correct in GMAT.

Could any experts elaborate on this one?
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Is so long as correct idiomatic structure? Shouldn't is be as long as ? I eliminated all options based on this theory.
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Tanchat Blair15

This is an official question, so the answer to any question of "Would the GMAT do this?" or "Is this correct?" is immediately YES! :) As discussed of, "so long as" and "as long as" can work very similarly. In this case, the difference in meaning is essentially zero. Typically, "so long as" works the same as "provided that": "You can go to the party, so long as you don't drink alcohol." "As long as" can have the additional use of describing a duration ("I can stay underwater for as long as you can"), but it doesn't have to be used in that way.
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Blair15
Is so long as correct idiomatic structure? Shouldn't is be as long as ? I eliminated all options based on this theory.
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If the intended meaning is "on the condition that...", then either version is acceptable.
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Tanchat
Dear Experts,

Can so_____as be correct and acceptable in GMAT ?
I have never seen so____as correct in GMAT.

Could any experts elaborate on this one?
Show more

Well, now you have 😀

Also take a look at this problem, which is labeled on the linked thread as "new in OG2020" but has been included in the GMATPrep software since at least 2008: https://gmatclub.com/forum/often-major- ... 94376.html
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Quote:
(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
Whoa, there’s all sorts of weird crap in (A). For starters, “universities may collect student activity fees even with students’ objections to particular activities” literally seems to be saying that activity fees and objections are collected together, somehow. And that doesn’t make sense.

I’m also not thrilled with the pronouns. I’m OK with the “their” at the very end of the sentence, because that seems to refer to the most recent plural noun (“groups”), but I don't love the phrase “they give money to.” I guess “they” is trying to refer to “public universities”, but we have a whole bunch of other plural nouns in the way (“student activity fees”, “students’ objections”, “activities”).

Of course, pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule on the GMAT (as discussed in this video), but it’s really not awesome when the pronouns are somewhat confusing. Maybe the pronoun isn’t WRONG, but it’s not ideal, either.

I also have absolutely no idea why the future tense “will be” appears in this sentence.

So we have plenty of good reasons to ditch (A).

Quote:
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
The first “they” is definitely wrong in (B). The only plural nouns earlier in the sentence are “public universities” and “activity fees”, and neither of those make sense. The sentence is trying to say that universities can collect fees even if students have objections to particular activities – and the only form of “students” in the sentence is actually an adjective (“student activity fees”).

There’s also a meaning issue that stems from the parallelism in (B). We have: “…public universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are chosen without regard to their views.”

That doesn’t actually make sense: the sentence is not trying to say that universities may collect fees even if groups receive money without regard to their views. The sentence is trying to say that universities may collect fees as long as the groups receive money without regard to their views. That last part is a requirement imposed by the Supreme Court, so it’s wrong to precede the phrase with “even if.”

So (B) is out.

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GMATNinja
Thank you sir for the awesome explanation. Your explanation is always tremendous to me!
Quote:
(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
Show more
The use of to before will is seriously awkward to me. Can you share your thought, please?

Quote:
The first “they” is definitely wrong in (B). The only plural nouns earlier in the sentence are “public universities” and “activity fees”, and neither of those make sense.
Show more
I saw few official SCs where the noun is being used after its pronoun!
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

- "they" here is referring to "student activity fees" which makes it ill logical to say, "student activity fees" have objections
- "have to be" is redundant

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Can you share an explanation why "have to be'' is considered as 'redundant' here in this case? Needs experts' reply!
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GMATNinja
dave13

Hello GMATNinja :)

these 700 level SC questions are really tricky....itend to miss some deatils ...

what I dont understand is this expression " the groups given money are" "are" cant refer to money right ? because money is "is" so "are" refers to "groups" but does it make sense ? i dont get logogical conecttion... on the other hand if it were " the groups given money is" sounds better but it wouldnt link the remaining part of sentence.

Is is some specfic senteance construction :? the groups given money are" how do we call this sentence construction.... does it mean that groups that give money are chosen.....?

have a great weekend :) i can already smell a weekend mood one day before it :)
Ah, the delicious, slightly moist smell of weekend... :grin:

I'm not a huge fan of the grammar jargon, but here's the heart of that part of the sentence:

    "...the groups... are chosen without regard to their views."

So yes, "groups" are the grammatical subject here. It's in passive voice, and the sentence never actually states who, exactly, chooses the groups. We just know that the groups are chosen (by an unnamed somebody) without regard to those groups' views.

Adding the bit about money back in, we have:

    "...the groups given money are chosen without regard to their views."

The phrase "given money" is just modifying "the groups." Basically, it just clarifies that "the groups" we're discussing are specifically the groups that receive money.

I hope that helps, and enjoy the weekend!
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GMATNinja
In choice. D and E, there are 2 versions like below..
E--> the groups that are given
D--> the groups given
Shouldn't ''the groups that are given'' be more readable?
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GMATNinja


(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
Whoa, there’s all sorts of weird crap in (A). For starters, “universities may collect student activity fees even with students’ objections to particular activities” literally seems to be saying that activity fees and objections are collected together, somehow. And that doesn’t make sense.

I’m also not thrilled with the pronouns. I’m OK with the “their” at the very end of the sentence, because that seems to refer to the most recent plural noun (“groups”), but I don't love the phrase “they give money to.” I guess “they” is trying to refer to “public universities”, but we have a whole bunch of other plural nouns in the way (“student activity fees”, “students’ objections”, “activities”).

Of course, pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule on the GMAT (as discussed in this video), but it’s really not awesome when the pronouns are somewhat confusing. Maybe the pronoun isn’t WRONG, but it’s not ideal, either.

I also have absolutely no idea why the future tense “will be” appears in this sentence.

So we have plenty of good reasons to ditch (A).

Show more

Hi GMATNinja

Few queries to clear my concept on the subject.

"I guess “they” is trying to refer to “public universities”, but we have a whole bunch of other plural nouns in the way (“student activity fees”, “students’ objections”, “activities”). " I want to if they can refer to plural things? I am in a way used to thinking they refer to living objects...am I missing something???

Rest assured your explanations are the best as always. This is for my prep only.

Thanks Charles.
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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude 22 Feb 2023, 09:37
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Hi GMATNinja

Few queries to clear my concept on the subject.

"I guess “they” is trying to refer to “public universities”, but we have a whole bunch of other plural nouns in the way (“student activity fees”, “students’ objections”, “activities”). " I want to if they can refer to plural things? I am in a way used to thinking they refer to living objects...am I missing something???

Rest assured your explanations are the best as always. This is for my prep only.

Thanks Charles.
Show more

It sounds like your asking whether "they" can refer to non-living things? If so, then yes, it can:

    "The old buildings are beautiful, but they are structurally unsound."

Since "buildings" is plural, we need to use the plural pronoun ("they").

While we're on the subject, another common misconception is that "whose" cannot be used for non-living things, and that's not true either. For example:

    "The house whose paint is peeling just sold for $500,000."

"Whose" is a noun modifier describing the house, and this usage is perfectly fine.

I hope that helps!
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how can ", so long as..." be a correct construction? shouldn't it be "as long as..."

edit: after reading the comments, it seems that "so long as, and as long as" can be used interchangeably when placing a condition.
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