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# British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim

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British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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21 Sep 2016, 06:20
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British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

(A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
(D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
(E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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27 Sep 2016, 16:50
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AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

Dear AbdurRakib & Abhishek009,

I will say that while I almost always praise the quality of MGMAT questions, I have grave uncertainties about this particular question.

Clearly "doing it" is wrong, so (B) is out. Clearly the "doing so" participle must "touch" the actors it modifies, so it can't touch "the ideals"--it must touch "they" (i.e. the historians). That's why (A) & (B) & (C) are out. This may answer @bhamini1's question. Clearly (E) is such an awkward monstrosity that it should be taken out back and shot.

Ostensibly, that leaves (D). My problem with (D) is the pronoun use. In the same clause, the second clause, we have a "they" and "their" referring to different antecedents. If we think about the antecedent of the pronoun "their"---of course, logically, it should refer to "ideals"---that's what the author of the sentence is clearly trying to say. Of course, "ideals" is the closest noun. At the same time, we have two pronouns in that clause, and this use often suggests the same antecedent. Also, the "British historians" are rhetorically dominant in the sentence: they are the subject of both clauses in version (D), and this can have some weight in determining a pronoun's antecedent. I don't think that grammar and logic and rhetoric all univocally point to the same conclusion, and in a good official GC question, all the parts work together to product a coherent meaning.

I know that (D) is the OA by which the MGMAT folks stand. I just don't know whether this question would be successful as an official question on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss further.
Mike
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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21 Sep 2016, 08:25
AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

a) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
b) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
c) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
d) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
e) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due.

Correct answer must be (D) for the highlighted errors in the options.
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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27 Sep 2016, 11:40
Can anybody explain why the answer is D and why not C
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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28 Sep 2016, 06:57
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear AbdurRakib & Abhishek009,

I will say that while I almost always praise the quality of MGMAT questions, I have grave uncertainties about this particular question.

Clearly "doing it" is wrong, so (B) is out. Clearly the "doing so" participle must "touch" the actors it modifies, so it can't touch "the ideals"--it must touch "they" (i.e. the historians). That's why (A) & (B) & (C) are out. This may answer @bhamini1's question. Clearly (E) is such an awkward monstrosity that it should be taken out back and shot.

Ostensibly, that leaves (D). My problem with (D) is the pronoun use. In the same clause, the second clause, we have a "they" and "their" referring to different antecedents. If we think about the antecedent of the pronoun "their"---of course, logically, it should refer to "ideals"---that's what the author of the sentence is clearly trying to say. Of course, "ideals" is the closest noun. At the same time, we have two pronouns in that clause, and this use often suggests the same antecedent. Also, the "British historians" are rhetorically dominant in the sentence: they are the subject of both clauses in version (D), and this can have some weight in determining a pronoun's antecedent. I don't think that grammar and logic and rhetoric all univocally point to the same conclusion, and in a good official GC question, all the parts work together to product a coherent meaning.

I know that (D) is the OA by which the MGMAT folks stand. I just don't know whether this question would be successful as an official question on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss further.
Mike

Dear Mike,

I believe that 'to give X oneself due' is an idiom in which 'onself' is a pronoun refers to 'X' So it might be clear enough to accept it.

what do you think??
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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28 Sep 2016, 13:18
Mo2men wrote:
Dear Mike,

I believe that 'to give X oneself due' is an idiom in which 'onself' is a pronoun refers to 'X' So it might be clear enough to accept it.

what do you think??

Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond. Admittedly, it would be somewhat unusual. Most often, when people talk about giving due credit to someone, they are talking about someone else. It would be a bit odd, and a certainly out of character for business writing, for someone to proclaim, "I want the credit due to me!" Nevertheless, it is at least a possibility, especially when it's a group rather than an individual.

For example,
After the series of student accusations in the school newspaper, the teachers said they themselves had not be given their due.
After a scathing diatribe by the President, most of the members of Senate Foreign Relations committee felt that they had not been given their due.

It is at least conceivable that such sentence could be on the GMAT SC. We certainly can't dismiss this possibility.

Does this make sense?
Mike
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British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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23 May 2017, 03:56
AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

(A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
(D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
(E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

The correct idiom is "give somebody their due"

For example, He failed again, but to give him his due, he did try hard.

GMATNinjaTwo Could you help to explain the pronoun "they" and "their" in (D)?
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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23 May 2017, 10:57
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Clearly an answer choice with doing so will be the right one - 1st error

now the second clause should modify the subject of the first clause - 2nd error - leaves D and E

D is logical here and is the right answer
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British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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08 Jun 2017, 05:42
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hazelnut wrote:
AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

(A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
(D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
(E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

The correct idiom is "give somebody their due"

For example, He failed again, but to give him his due, he did try hard.

GMATNinjaTwo Could you help to explain the pronoun "they" and "their" in (D)?

There seems to be an error in the OA. "They" refers to "historians", whereas "their" refers to "ideals". It is not allowed to use "they" and "their" for different antecedents in the same sentence.......... seems to be an oversight of the author of this question.
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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30 Sep 2017, 04:52
mikemcgarry wrote:
AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

Dear AbdurRakib & Abhishek009,

I will say that while I almost always praise the quality of MGMAT questions, I have grave uncertainties about this particular question.

Clearly "doing it" is wrong, so (B) is out. Clearly the "doing so" participle must "touch" the actors it modifies, so it can't touch "the ideals"--it must touch "they" (i.e. the historians). That's why (A) & (B) & (C) are out. This may answer @bhamini1's question. Clearly (E) is such an awkward monstrosity that it should be taken out back and shot.

Ostensibly, that leaves (D). My problem with (D) is the pronoun use. In the same clause, the second clause, we have a "they" and "their" referring to different antecedents. If we think about the antecedent of the pronoun "their"---of course, logically, it should refer to "ideals"---that's what the author of the sentence is clearly trying to say. Of course, "ideals" is the closest noun. At the same time, we have two pronouns in that clause, and this use often suggests the same antecedent. Also, the "British historians" are rhetorically dominant in the sentence: they are the subject of both clauses in version (D), and this can have some weight in determining a pronoun's antecedent. I don't think that grammar and logic and rhetoric all univocally point to the same conclusion, and in a good official GC question, all the parts work together to product a coherent meaning.

I know that (D) is the OA by which the MGMAT folks stand. I just don't know whether this question would be successful as an official question on the GMAT.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss further.
Mike

Besides this, I also don't like simple present tense here. (D)
Pl comment mikemcgarry
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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02 Oct 2017, 04:59
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AbdurRakib wrote:
British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the primary cause of the American Revolution, but in doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due.

(A) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(B) doing it, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment are not given their due
(C) doing so, the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment have not been given their due
(D) doing so, they do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their due
(E) doing so, they do not give the due of their ideals to the French Enlightenment of the 18th century

Hey shouldn't 'they' and 'their' point to the same antecedent in a sentence? If so, how can D be the correct answer?
TIA!
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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02 Oct 2017, 09:31
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However much one may wish, it is difficult to convince that the pronoun 'their' stands of the historian's due. 'Due' here means what one has earned deservedly. If we consider D with the supposedly intended pronoun historians, this is what one gets.
doing so, they the histories do not give the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment their the historians' due.
It doesn't stand to logic that the British Historians would like to give what they have earned as the due to the ideals of the 18th century French Enlightenment.

Therefore, D is weak.
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British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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02 Oct 2017, 13:13
Besides this, I also don't like simple present tense here. (D)
Pl comment mikemcgarry

I'm happy to respond.

The present tense is not a problem. Even if the historical books were written in the past, the books themselves, and the judgments they render, are still in the present. We could easy say, "This book, written 300 years ago, does not give such-and-such ideals their due." The present tense is fine because the words of a book are always present.

Does this make sense?
Hey shouldn't 'they' and 'their' point to the same antecedent in a sentence? If so, how can D be the correct answer?
TIA!

That's an excellent point! Another problem with this question! Kudos to you!

Mike
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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11 Nov 2018, 08:45
Choice D is incorrect as they and their should point to the same antecedent. Either option A or C should be correct.
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Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim  [#permalink]

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10 Mar 2019, 04:20
E is far too awkward an option to even consider, we can just pretend it’s not there. ‘Doing it’ is idiomatically, completely, wrong so B can also be discarded. In A and C, ‘doing so’ is close to ‘the ideals’ but refers to the actions of the historians, so these two are also bad choices. Thus, D is the most appropriate choice.
Re: British historians have sometimes cited financial concerns as the prim   [#permalink] 10 Mar 2019, 04:20
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