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Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019

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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 27 Feb 2017, 13:45
Yeah different rankings show a different picture. FT rankings has seen a massive drop for McGill leaving it no spot in the top 100 but then again every Canadian business school has experienced similar trend. I've researched about the relative standing of the universities and from what I've observed, Rotman comes out at the top in most of the reviews, surveys etc. (especially for Finance as it is in Toronto). Now, expenses are also relatively higher for Rotman so that obviously has its role to play in calculating ROI. Notwithstanding all this, McGill still stays a target school for these firms like you mentioned. A downward trend, however, for me presents somewhat of a concern for the future. I'd love to know more about it though as Im only collecting information as much as I can to reach a solid conclusion.
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Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 12:58
TheMastermind wrote:
Yeah different rankings show a different picture. FT rankings has seen a massive drop for McGill leaving it no spot in the top 100 but then again every Canadian business school has experienced similar trend. I've researched about the relative standing of the universities and from what I've observed, Rotman comes out at the top in most of the reviews, surveys etc. (especially for Finance as it is in Toronto). Now, expenses are also relatively higher for Rotman so that obviously has its role to play in calculating ROI. Notwithstanding all this, McGill still stays a target school for these firms like you mentioned. A downward trend, however, for me presents somewhat of a concern for the future. I'd love to know more about it though as Im only collecting information as much as I can to reach a solid conclusion.



That was worrying to me at first too, but I looked into it a while ago and found that I don't like the FT ranking methodology. For starters, there's quite a bit of volatility in the FT with Queens coming in and out of the top 100, Western is between 87 and 97, and McGill went 84,100,85 then NR this year. I find it hard to believe that a business school can move 20ish spots in a year.

More importantly though, the FT places 20% weight on strictly academic research related criteria - 10% is the school's academic research rank, 5% is the number of PhDs who graduate from the business school, and 5% is the % of profs who have PhDs. This is the main reason why Rotman does so much better than the other Canadian schools - it ranks #3 in the world research output (in FT), and has many PhD graduates who place well in academic positions. I don't get this criteria though... sure it's nice to have teachers who are publishing in top academic journals, and there is probably some benefit to that (though I have definitely had classes in UG with good researchers who were terrible teachers), but at the end of the day I care most about the actual MBA student outcomes and the rest is ancillary (especially how many PhDs the b-school produces).

I estimated the rankings without the academic portion, and the implied rankings look much more like the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings, where Rotman is basically right with all the other Canadian schools. In the FT, Rotman has a slightly higher salary, but it does poorly for "placement" (the alumni ranking for the help they got from their school's career centre), and it actually comes in lowest (100/100) for the value for money category (FT gives each of these criteria only a 3% weight somehow).

Nevertheless, please don't take this as criticism of Rotman! It's a great school, I know people who went there, loved it, and got great jobs after. There's a ton of good reasons to go there! I just think it's silly to put it on this pedestal above the other top Canadian MBAs, when the actual MBA outcomes aren't that different, and it's just because the school produces good PhDs and its profs publish a lot... but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 13:19
backbacon wrote:
TheMastermind wrote:
Yeah different rankings show a different picture. FT rankings has seen a massive drop for McGill leaving it no spot in the top 100 but then again every Canadian business school has experienced similar trend. I've researched about the relative standing of the universities and from what I've observed, Rotman comes out at the top in most of the reviews, surveys etc. (especially for Finance as it is in Toronto). Now, expenses are also relatively higher for Rotman so that obviously has its role to play in calculating ROI. Notwithstanding all this, McGill still stays a target school for these firms like you mentioned. A downward trend, however, for me presents somewhat of a concern for the future. I'd love to know more about it though as Im only collecting information as much as I can to reach a solid conclusion.



That was worrying to me at first too, but I looked into it a while ago and found that I don't like the FT ranking methodology. For starters, there's quite a bit of volatility in the FT with Queens coming in and out of the top 100, Western is between 87 and 97, and McGill went 84,100,85 then NR this year. I find it hard to believe that a business school can move 20ish spots in a year.

More importantly though, the FT places 20% weight on strictly academic research related criteria - 10% is the school's academic research rank, 5% is the number of PhDs who graduate from the business school, and 5% is the % of profs who have PhDs. This is the main reason why Rotman does so much better than the other Canadian schools - it ranks #3 in the world research output (in FT), and has many PhD graduates who place well in academic positions. I don't get this criteria though... sure it's nice to have teachers who are publishing in top academic journals, and there is probably some benefit to that (though I have definitely had classes in UG with good researchers who were terrible teachers), but at the end of the day I care most about the actual MBA student outcomes and the rest is ancillary (especially how many PhDs the b-school produces).

I estimated the rankings without the academic portion, and the implied rankings look much more like the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings, where Rotman is basically right with all the other Canadian schools. In the FT, Rotman has a slightly higher salary, but it does poorly for "placement" (the alumni ranking for the help they got from their school's career centre), and it actually comes in lowest (100/100) for the value for money category (FT gives each of these criteria only a 3% weight somehow).

Nevertheless, please don't take this as criticism of Rotman! It's a great school, I know people who went there, loved it, and got great jobs after. There's a ton of good reasons to go there! I just think it's silly to put it on this pedestal above the other top Canadian MBAs, when the actual MBA outcomes aren't that different, and it's just because the school produces good PhDs and its profs publish a lot... but that's just my opinion.


FT rankings are very complex. I guess that explains why there is such volatility in the annual rankings every year. They take into account career progression too which I believe is a good criteria so that also affects the rankings. Much of my research, apart from rankings, is based on a multitude of articles, surveys, forum opinion and only a few reviews from people working in Canada as well. Ultimately, that's the impression that I got from Rotman i.e., it's a better school compared to UBC, McGill. Again, costs do play their role, especially when Montreal is relatively cheaper. QS rankings also have a favorable enough opinion of McGill. As I said, about these different surveys, forum opinions, I have not come across more than a couple negative reviews about Rotman that is really low compared with Desautels. Probably the Toronto location is something that lets people believe that Rotman must be way better, especially to people who don't have direct contact with the location. I asked an admission expert here and he said that they place Rotman and Schulich above the rest for Canada.

Your location says it's Canada. Are you a Canadian? if that's so, you may have a lot more to add to this. Eager to listen here!
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Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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TheMastermind wrote:
backbacon wrote:
TheMastermind wrote:
Yeah different rankings show a different picture. FT rankings has seen a massive drop for McGill leaving it no spot in the top 100 but then again every Canadian business school has experienced similar trend. I've researched about the relative standing of the universities and from what I've observed, Rotman comes out at the top in most of the reviews, surveys etc. (especially for Finance as it is in Toronto). Now, expenses are also relatively higher for Rotman so that obviously has its role to play in calculating ROI. Notwithstanding all this, McGill still stays a target school for these firms like you mentioned. A downward trend, however, for me presents somewhat of a concern for the future. I'd love to know more about it though as Im only collecting information as much as I can to reach a solid conclusion.



That was worrying to me at first too, but I looked into it a while ago and found that I don't like the FT ranking methodology. For starters, there's quite a bit of volatility in the FT with Queens coming in and out of the top 100, Western is between 87 and 97, and McGill went 84,100,85 then NR this year. I find it hard to believe that a business school can move 20ish spots in a year.

More importantly though, the FT places 20% weight on strictly academic research related criteria - 10% is the school's academic research rank, 5% is the number of PhDs who graduate from the business school, and 5% is the % of profs who have PhDs. This is the main reason why Rotman does so much better than the other Canadian schools - it ranks #3 in the world research output (in FT), and has many PhD graduates who place well in academic positions. I don't get this criteria though... sure it's nice to have teachers who are publishing in top academic journals, and there is probably some benefit to that (though I have definitely had classes in UG with good researchers who were terrible teachers), but at the end of the day I care most about the actual MBA student outcomes and the rest is ancillary (especially how many PhDs the b-school produces).

I estimated the rankings without the academic portion, and the implied rankings look much more like the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings, where Rotman is basically right with all the other Canadian schools. In the FT, Rotman has a slightly higher salary, but it does poorly for "placement" (the alumni ranking for the help they got from their school's career centre), and it actually comes in lowest (100/100) for the value for money category (FT gives each of these criteria only a 3% weight somehow).

Nevertheless, please don't take this as criticism of Rotman! It's a great school, I know people who went there, loved it, and got great jobs after. There's a ton of good reasons to go there! I just think it's silly to put it on this pedestal above the other top Canadian MBAs, when the actual MBA outcomes aren't that different, and it's just because the school produces good PhDs and its profs publish a lot... but that's just my opinion.


FT rankings are very complex. I guess that explains why there is such volatility in the annual rankings every year. They take into account career progression too which I believe is a good criteria so that also affects the rankings. Much of my research, apart from rankings, is based on a multitude of articles, surveys, forum opinion and only a few reviews from people working in Canada as well. Ultimately, that's the impression that I got from Rotman i.e., it's a better school compared to UBC, McGill. Again, costs do play their role, especially when Montreal is relatively cheaper. QS rankings also have a favorable enough opinion of McGill. As I said, about these different surveys, forum opinions, I have not come across more than a couple negative reviews about Rotman that is really low compared with Desautels. Probably the Toronto location is something that lets people believe that Rotman must be way better, especially to people who don't have direct contact with the location. I asked an admission expert here and he said that they place Rotman and Schulich above the rest for Canada.

Your location says it's Canada. Are you a Canadian? if that's so, you may have a lot more to add to this. Eager to listen here!


I am Canadian, feel free to ask me any questions (or you can pm me if it's more specific).
I do agree career progression is a good metric to have.

In terms of reputation it definitely varies depending on industry and firm. But yes you're right, my sense is that Rotman's reputation is very strong, and increasing (I don't think it used to be quite as high as it is today). Also, Western has a universally excellent reputation (above Rotman according to some people at least), especially in Finance and Consulting. McGill and Queens also have great reputations as overall schools, and as business schools. McGill for a long time was probably considered the gold standard overall university in Canada (Mcgill alumni would, pretentiously and to the chagrin of others, joke that it is "the Harvard of the North"). Things have equalized a little recently though with other schools catching up and in terms of overall university (not just b-school), it would probably be between McGill, UoT, and UBC for top school in Canada now I think (Queens and Waterloo are excellent for engineering/Maths).

My sense is that recruiters may have preferences here or there, but the large majority will not hold it against you at all if you go to say - Rotman, Western, McGill, Queens, and probably Schulich and UBC as well. The bigger difference might be the connections that schools have in terms of alumni being concentrated in certain firms.

Also for what it's worth, I'd say Western is pretty universally considered to have the best I-banking and consulting network in Canada (in terms of how much alumni help eachother out).
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 03 Mar 2017, 04:34
Hi guys!!

I got admitted to McGill with 20K scholarship! But have not gotten a paper copy of the admission letter in my mailbox.
Has anybody gotten a paper hardcopy of the admission letter?

Thanks
Geetika
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 03 Mar 2017, 04:53
geetgmat wrote:
Hi guys!!

I got admitted to McGill with 20K scholarship! But have not gotten a paper copy of the admission letter in my mailbox.
Has anybody gotten a paper hardcopy of the admission letter?

Thanks
Geetika


Hi Geetika,

First of all congratulations! That's a great scholarship you got there. If you got an email, the paper copy should arrive soon as well. I can imagine the anxiety :) .

By the way, could you tell us a little bit about your profile, gmat score as well? I finished my interview a week ago.. and have been contemplating chances of me getting in ever since :)

Cheers,
Aman
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 03 Mar 2017, 05:38
Hi Geetika,

I haven't received the hard copy letter of acceptance yet either (I was accepted 2 weeks ago) . Maybe it's once you accept the offer via the student portal that you receive the paper letter?
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 03 Mar 2017, 13:43
PaulineD wrote:
Hi Geetika,

I haven't received the hard copy letter of acceptance yet either (I was accepted 2 weeks ago) . Maybe it's once you accept the offer via the student portal that you receive the paper letter?


It was specifically mentioned in my offer letter that no hard copy will be given and that I may print and use the copies of electronic letter as needed. Did you check uApply and read the letter there or did you only read the e-mail?
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 03 Mar 2017, 14:06
Well now my problem is that my offer expired on Uapply :( . I could make a decision until March 7th originally but asked to extend the deadline to March 21st to go back to my home country to sign for my loan before accepting (I work abroad). They accepted to extend the deadline but now it appears as if the offer expired. I wrote to them and hope they can fix this as I really want to get in to Desautels. I'm sure it's just a computer mistake.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 04 Mar 2017, 04:48
Hi everyone,

I just got the interview invite. Please let me know if there are any technology related technical requirements that I need to be careful/cautious about to ensure a smooth call without connectivity issues or any other sort of disruption. Any other guideline/advice is appreciated :)
It's the first time I am giving an interview over Skype.


Thanks.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 04 Mar 2017, 05:08
YooZee wrote:
Hi everyone,

I just got the interview invite. Please let me know if there are any technology related technical requirements that I need to be careful/cautious about to ensure a smooth call without connectivity issues or any other sort of disruption. Any other guideline/advice is appreciated :)
It's the first time I am giving an interview over Skype.


Thanks.


Congratz on the interview, just ensure that the connectivity is good. You can try calling your friend to test it out. Get online 10 mins before the actual interview. Know yourself well + prepare to answer some behavioral questions (you can refer back to previous posts for examples). McGill adcom is very nice so last but not least, enjoy the interview :)
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 04 Mar 2017, 09:10
PaulineD wrote:
Well now my problem is that my offer expired on Uapply :( . I could make a decision until March 7th originally but asked to extend the deadline to March 21st to go back to my home country to sign for my loan before accepting (I work abroad). They accepted to extend the deadline but now it appears as if the offer expired. I wrote to them and hope they can fix this as I really want to get in to Desautels. I'm sure it's just a computer mistake.


I am sure they will fix it. When I encountered a problem on uApply when submitting my application, I contacted them and they fixed it in a couple days. The admissions team seems to be really good with timely responses to any inquiry.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 04 Mar 2017, 15:45
Rookie84 wrote:
PaulineD wrote:
Hi Geetika,

I haven't received the hard copy letter of acceptance yet either (I was accepted 2 weeks ago) . Maybe it's once you accept the offer via the student portal that you receive the paper letter?


It was specifically mentioned in my offer letter that no hard copy will be given and that I may print and use the copies of electronic letter as needed. Did you check uApply and read the letter there or did you only read the e-mail?


Rookie84 is right. You will not receive a hard copy of the letter. We just printed the letters out from uApply and used it to process CAQ & VISA. I vaguely remember that we had an issue with the dates of the program on the letter and some CAQ applications were put on hold cause of that. So please ensure to check everything is okay with the letter you've received. If not please contact adcom and they will issue revised letters as they did for us last year.

Regards,
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 06 Mar 2017, 13:45
Admitted and Invited to interview candidates,

Can you please throw some light as to when did you guys hear for an invite to interview once you received an e mail from Admissions confirming that all your documents are in place and that your application is sent for preliminary review?

It's been a week and I see dead silence. Can anyone here throw some light. Many thanks in advance.
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Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 06 Mar 2017, 18:46
keats wrote:
Admitted and Invited to interview candidates,

Can you please throw some light as to when did you guys hear for an invite to interview once you received an e mail from Admissions confirming that all your documents are in place and that your application is sent for preliminary review?

It's been a week and I see dead silence. Can anyone here throw some light. Many thanks in advance.


I waited for almost exactly 1 month before I got an invite to interview. Just be patient and they WILL get back to you. McGill adcom is very efficient from what I've seen and they really seem to genuinely care about the applicants. I understand being antsy when waiting for a response but expecting to hear back within 1 week is too much! :lol:
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2017, 00:25
keats wrote:
Admitted and Invited to interview candidates,

Can you please throw some light as to when did you guys hear for an invite to interview once you received an e mail from Admissions confirming that all your documents are in place and that your application is sent for preliminary review?

It's been a week and I see dead silence. Can anyone here throw some light. Many thanks in advance.



I applied on Jan 15th and contacted them 2 days back and guess what.. my application is still under review.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2017, 00:35
jubinarora wrote:
keats wrote:
Admitted and Invited to interview candidates,

Can you please throw some light as to when did you guys hear for an invite to interview once you received an e mail from Admissions confirming that all your documents are in place and that your application is sent for preliminary review?

It's been a week and I see dead silence. Can anyone here throw some light. Many thanks in advance.



I applied on Jan 15th and contacted them 2 days back and guess what.. my application is still under review.


Wow, this is surely a lot of time. Isn't there a notification date deadline?
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2017, 01:31
keats wrote:
jubinarora wrote:
keats wrote:
Admitted and Invited to interview candidates,

Can you please throw some light as to when did you guys hear for an invite to interview once you received an e mail from Admissions confirming that all your documents are in place and that your application is sent for preliminary review?

It's been a week and I see dead silence. Can anyone here throw some light. Many thanks in advance.



I applied on Jan 15th and contacted them 2 days back and guess what.. my application is still under review.


Wow, this is surely a lot of time. Isn't there a notification date deadline?


I couldn't find anything on their website. But next round's deadline is 15th March, so hopefully will get to know by then.
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Re: Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2017, 09:29
Hi everyone! I am new and I am about to submit my applications to McGill, Rotman, Schulich, Sauder and Ivey.
I am Korean with 5 years of experience working in mainly marketing / PR role. I got only 710 on my GMAT and exactly 100 on TOEFL... I hope it will be enough! Most Koreans go to the school in the US so there is not a lot of information about Canada in Korean threads online.. I was reading the schools thread and see a lot of different opinions on the Canadian top schools. Anyone want to share some more information or personal experience? My main concern is post-graduation placement. The stats from all schools look quite similar but is there anything else I should consider?
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Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019 [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2017, 12:36
eunjukim wrote:
Hi everyone! I am new and I am about to submit my applications to McGill, Rotman, Schulich, Sauder and Ivey.
I am Korean with 5 years of experience working in mainly marketing / PR role. I got only 710 on my GMAT and exactly 100 on TOEFL... I hope it will be enough! Most Koreans go to the school in the US so there is not a lot of information about Canada in Korean threads online.. I was reading the schools thread and see a lot of different opinions on the Canadian top schools. Anyone want to share some more information or personal experience? My main concern is post-graduation placement. The stats from all schools look quite similar but is there anything else I should consider?


Hi Eunju. Good to see a fellow Korean in this thread. As you said, not many Koreans are applying to Canadian MBA programs, it seems. I found zero information about Canadian MBA programs while doing searches in Korean... I got all of my information by doing my research in English.

Although I cannot really comment on placement as I only went through the application stage, I just looked at it this way: if I end up being in top 10% of my class and do reasonably well in networking, I am pretty sure I can land a decent job. In other words, job placement is really up to me as long as I can get into a program with a strong reputation.

Are you looking to apply soon? If you are, you need to know that you are a bit late to the game and the seats are being filled fast. You seem to have great GMAT score and GPA so you should be able to put together a strong application as long as you can really convince the adcom about your work experience and extra curricular activities and have good recommendations.

If you have any questions I can help you with, feel free to reach out to me via PM. You can even write to me in Korean. :P

Good luck!
Calling all Desautels (McGill) Applicants:(2017 Intake) Class of 2019   [#permalink] 08 Mar 2017, 12:36

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