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In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2013, 00:17
sprtng wrote:
by POE, got C, but dont know how this is correct...i still think it should be past tense...

(A) have been priced to sell, and they are -have been/are tense mismatch
(B) are priced to sell, and they have -they have what?
(C) are priced to sell, and they do -tense wise are ok, but i dont know why this could be right
(D) are being priced to sell, and have -and who have what? are being is also awkward
(E) had been priced to sell, and they have -had been? tense incorrect


The word " sell" is not in the last part because of ellipsis (where certain words can be omitted without breaking parallelism). However, the omitted word(s) must already appear in the sentence and must make sense when substituted back in (sub in and check).

Regarding what you mentioned about tense mismatch, parallelism can be done in a variety of ways, so it doesn't always hold that the tenses must be parallel (but they must be logical)

Just looking at parallelism:
(A) have been priced to sell, and they are (priced to sell -> repeating info in first bit so redundant)
(B) are priced to sell, and they have (priced to sell -> nonsense when slotted back in)
(C) are priced to sell, and they do (sell- makes sense)
(D) are being priced to sell, and have (priced to sell -> again nonsensical)
(E) had been priced to sell, and they have (been priced to sell -> ditto)

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In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners [#permalink]

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New post 08 Apr 2013, 00:41
In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut prices; their wines have been priced to sell.
and they are.

(A) have been priced to sell, and they are
(B) are priced to sell, and they have
(C) are priced to sell, and they do
(D) are being priced to sell, and have
(E) had been priced to sell, and they have

Now, I know that C is the obvious answer.
However, what if choice A were reworded as "have been priced to sell, and they do". Will choice A be correct then ?

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Re: SC question:Basis of elimination [#permalink]

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New post 08 Apr 2013, 01:55
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"Have been priced to sell, and they do" will still be incorrect. ‘Have been priced’ means, they have been priced from quite some time. ‘Are priced’ means, they are priced at the moment, (after the prices have been slashed). The logic is that if they have been priced to sell from the past, why did they not then sell in the past, necessitating a price slash” It is clear that the wines are selling only now. So the use of present perfect tense ‘have been priced’ changes the intent of the clause.
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Re: SC question:Basis of elimination [#permalink]

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New post 08 Apr 2013, 10:54

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Re: SC question:Basis of elimination [#permalink]

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New post 09 Apr 2013, 05:14
daagh wrote:
"Have been priced to sell, and they do" will still be incorrect. ‘Have been priced’ means, they have been priced from quite some time. ‘Are priced’ means, they are priced at the moment, (after the prices have been slashed). The logic is that if they have been priced to sell from the past, why did they not then sell in the past, necessitating a price slash” It is clear that the wines are selling only now. So the use of present perfect tense ‘have been priced’ changes the intent of the clause.


Hi daagh,

Request you to please validate my reasoning on the question posted above.

In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut prices; their wines have been priced to sell.
and they do(sell).

I believe, that their wines have been priced to sell is correct usage of tense, since it shows the time frame of pricing the wines is same as that of cutting the prices. Obviously, Dealers must have cut prices in order to have a new discounted price that will cause the wines to sell. i.e Both actions must happen simultaneously.
However, the problem is with "do sell". Now, the phrase " do sell" shows that the action is happening at this moment. This is incorrect. The action must have started when the action of "pricing" started. i.e Cause -Effect must have started at the same time.

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Re: SC question:Basis of elimination [#permalink]

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New post 09 Apr 2013, 09:46
To answer your query, let ma ask you 1. to give a suitable verb that describes your reasoning. 2. Is that verb is applied in any of the choices here. 3 what verb you will use for a generalization that happened in the past or started in the past, continues today and is likely to do so in the future too. Let me give you some examples

The first example will be “ Messi has played well in the past, plays well now too and will do so in the future. Are we right in saying that Messy plays well;

The second example will be: The Sun rose in the east in the past; it rises in the east everyday and it will rise in the future too in the east. How can we describe such a phenomenon? Which is a better sentence?
The Sun has been rising in the east (or)
The Sun rises in the east
Apart from the nit-picking of the grammar issue here, I do believe that the modern concise writing style will take chocie C as the most appropriate.
Finally, isn't this Sentence Correction rather than Critical Reasoning?
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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners [#permalink]

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New post 12 Apr 2013, 00:47
Correct option is C
the italian vitener have cut prices
action of cutting prices happen sometime in past and the effect is still there ,the effect is now prices are priced to sell.
also the tenses should be parallel with each other when we are not repeating such as in C
'do' and 'are' both is in present form.
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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 27 Oct 2013, 19:31
what i'm still wondering is that in the second part of the sentence, "Their" refers to the Italian Vintners, so then subsequently the next pronoun "they" should also be referring to Italian Vitners?

can someone please help me understand what I'm missing?

With the above interpretation, the only answer that makes sense and does not use the "they" referent (which I argue could be interpreted to mean italian vintners" is choice D.

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 27 Oct 2013, 20:01
themichael wrote:
what i'm still wondering is that in the second part of the sentence, "Their" refers to the Italian Vintners, so then subsequently the next pronoun "they" should also be referring to Italian Vitners?

can someone please help me understand what I'm missing?

With the above interpretation, the only answer that makes sense and does not use the "they" referent (which I argue could be interpreted to mean italian vintners" is choice D.


This is a 1000 SC question,which is a unreliable source of practice, you may ignore the question without wasting more time over it

What you can remember is you only use possessive pronouns with possessive nouns.

and the pronoun will usually agree with the nearest noun (wine-they)
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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 27 Oct 2013, 20:08
dentobizz wrote:
themichael wrote:
what i'm still wondering is that in the second part of the sentence, "Their" refers to the Italian Vintners, so then subsequently the next pronoun "they" should also be referring to Italian Vitners?

can someone please help me understand what I'm missing?

With the above interpretation, the only answer that makes sense and does not use the "they" referent (which I argue could be interpreted to mean italian vintners" is choice D.


This is a 1000 SC question,which is a unreliable source of practice, you may ignore the question without wasting more time over it

What you can remember is you only use possessive pronouns with possessive nouns.

and the pronoun will usually agree with the nearest noun (wine-they)



Hi - this question is actually question #91 on page 688 of the OG13. That's why I am hoping to get some clarity on this potential ambiguity.

Regards.

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 28 Oct 2013, 01:36
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/og-sc-81-t1270.html
in-an-effort-to-reduce-their-inventories-italian-vintners-150552.html?fl=similar

The OG question has been discussed previously too. Pls. refer to the discussion links above.

Pls. remember that pronoun ambiguity is not a make or break issue on the gmat meaning that there will be several other errors that will make an option incorrect in addition to pronoun ambiguity. Gmat would never ask you to choose the correct option on the basis of pronoun ambiguity alone.
Here the issue with other options are: incorrect use of present perfect tense, wrong second verb and incorrect punctuation (comma).
'They' is correct since it represents wines (its closest noun) as well as makes logical sense.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you would like the POE details as well.
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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2013, 10:52
Choose POE to eliminate A,B,D,E.

A,D,E - are unnecessarily wordy due to use of been and being and incorrect tense usage.
B - are priced to sell, they have (seems incomplete...) is incorrect

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 31 Oct 2014, 18:01
egmat wrote:
KevinBrink wrote:
I agree with AdeelSilat, how on earth can wines sell themselves. So A can be the only correct answer. I know this is not OA however this questions is full of ****!


Hi KevinBrink,

In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut prices; their wines have been priced to sell, and they are.

This is an official question – OG13#91 – created by the creators of the GMAT. The quality of their questions is unparalleled. I guess, you are not able to understand the meaning of this problem, and that is why it is giving you a tough time. So let’s get started with meaning analysis.

Meaning Analysis:

Italian wine sellers have cut prices of their wines because they want to reduce their stock. They have priced their wine such so that they sell, and the wines actually sell because of this reduced price.

Error Analysis:

Now let’s look at the errors in the original sentence:
The first past of the underlined portion says the wines have been priced to sell. The second part says “they are”. So here we have ellipsis in play. Now, we can only make those words understood that have already appeared in the sentence in the same for. However, after “are” the verbs that can be used are “sold” or “selling”. However, none of these verb forms appear in the sentence anywhere. Hence, “are” is the incorrect helping verb.
Now, there can be a confusion regarding the usage of “sell”. “sell” means to “sell” something. When someone does the action of selling. There is another meaning of “sell” - to have a specific price; be offered for sale at the price indicated. For example: Leather boots sell for just $30.
This is how “sell” has been used in the second part of the underlined portion.

PoE:

(A) have been priced to sell, and they are: Incorrect for the reason stated above.

(B) are priced to sell, and they have: Incorrect. “have” should be followed by “sold” but this word is not present anywhere in the sentence.

(C) are priced to sell, and they do: Correct. Helping verb “do” stands for “sell”, the word that already exists in the sentence.

(D) are being priced to sell, and have: Incorrect. Same error as choice B.

(E) had been priced to sell, and they have: Incorrect.
i. Use of past perfect tense “had been priced” is incorrect because there is no other event in past tense.
ii. Same error as in choice B.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi Shraddha,

Thank you for this post.
I have observed that this type of sentences that are divided in 2 parts (one stating a fact and the other referring to the first, by using ellipsis, verb tenses, and parallelism) tend to appear quite often in the Gmat.

- Is the method stated by you the one we should always for this type of questions?
- Do you have more examples of such questions?

Thank you so much!
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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2015, 09:44
In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut prices; their wines have been priced to sell, and they are.

(A) have been priced to sell, and they are
(B) are priced to sell, and they have
(C) are priced to sell, and they do
(D) are being priced to sell, and have
(E) had been priced to sell, and they have

If you see or check how a sentence should end, then you can readily select option C as the answer since a sentence cannot end with are and have without necessary verb.

But if seen from the perspective of Tenses, I feel are is not correct.

Italian vintners have cut prices; .................Present perfect tense
are suddenly indicates simple present tense. I feel it should be something like
have been priced to sell and they do

If you feel that they are not priced from some time in past till now and are done only once.
then present prefect cannot be applicable but the same principle also applies on non underlined part of phrase
Italian vintners have cut prices also.

Please correct me where exactly I have gone wrong.

egmat, MartyMurray, VeritasPrepBrian, VeritasPrepKarishma anyone help?
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In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2016, 01:45
Hi I have the same question as nevernevergiveup. I just want to know more about auxiliary verb ellipsis. It is really hard for a non native speaker.
[1] Their wines are priced to sell and they ARE / DO?
[2] Their wines have been priced to sell and they HAVE / DO /ARE?
[3] Their wines had been priced to sell and they HAD / DID / WERE?
OG did not consider this problem.

I have read sentences such as:
I will go get a job and I will.
I love this job and I do.
So my answer for the above three sentences would be:
[1] Their wines ARE priced to sell and they ARE.
[2] Their wines have been priced to sell and they HAVE.
[3] Their wines had been priced to sell and they HAD.

Please add your comments. Thanks.

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut [#permalink]

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New post 11 Aug 2016, 06:36
egmat wrote:
KevinBrink wrote:
I agree with AdeelSilat, how on earth can wines sell themselves. So A can be the only correct answer. I know this is not OA however this questions is full of ****!


Hi KevinBrink,

In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut prices; their wines have been priced to sell, and they are.

This is an official question – OG13#91 – created by the creators of the GMAT. The quality of their questions is unparalleled. I guess, you are not able to understand the meaning of this problem, and that is why it is giving you a tough time. So let’s get started with meaning analysis.

Meaning Analysis:

Italian wine sellers have cut prices of their wines because they want to reduce their stock. They have priced their wine such so that they sell, and the wines actually sell because of this reduced price.

Error Analysis:

Now let’s look at the errors in the original sentence:
The first past of the underlined portion says the wines have been priced to sell. The second part says “they are”. So here we have ellipsis in play. Now, we can only make those words understood that have already appeared in the sentence in the same for. However, after “are” the verbs that can be used are “sold” or “selling”. However, none of these verb forms appear in the sentence anywhere. Hence, “are” is the incorrect helping verb.
Now, there can be a confusion regarding the usage of “sell”. “sell” means to “sell” something. When someone does the action of selling. There is another meaning of “sell” - to have a specific price; be offered for sale at the price indicated. For example: Leather boots sell for just $30.
This is how “sell” has been used in the second part of the underlined portion.

PoE:

(A) have been priced to sell, and they are: Incorrect for the reason stated above.

(B) are priced to sell, and they have: Incorrect. “have” should be followed by “sold” but this word is not present anywhere in the sentence.

(C) are priced to sell, and they do: Correct. Helping verb “do” stands for “sell”, the word that already exists in the sentence.

(D) are being priced to sell, and have: Incorrect. Same error as choice B.

(E) had been priced to sell, and they have: Incorrect.
i. Use of past perfect tense “had been priced” is incorrect because there is no other event in past tense.
ii. Same error as in choice B.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Awesome explanation indeed. But here, have they been used for wines?
If so then doesn´t it bring some awkwardness as they could represent the sellers as well and the meaning will differ in these two cases.

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Re: In an effort to reduce their inventories, Italian vintners have cut   [#permalink] 11 Aug 2016, 06:36

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