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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 13 Dec 2020, 17:13
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Can someone please help me understand my flaw in logic here:

"many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago" I understand the action of chiseling happened in the past that's why you're choosing it, but doesn't "were chiseled" also imply they're no longer around or that they're no longer chiseled?

If I point to chairs in my room and said the following:

"These chairs are made from plastic" ->They still exist in front of me and I'm stating a fact
"These chairs were made from plastic" -> They no longer exist as plastic


also doesn't "centuries ago" modify the "rock" instead of "chiseled"

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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 13 Dec 2020, 18:35
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sislam04
Can someone please help me understand my flaw in logic here:

"many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago" I understand the action of chiseling happened in the past that's why you're choosing it, but doesn't "were chiseled" also imply they're no longer around or that they're no longer chiseled?

If I point to chairs in my room and said the following:

"These chairs are made from plastic" ->They still exist in front of me and I'm stating a fact
"These chairs were made from plastic" -> They no longer exist as plastic


also doesn't "centuries ago" modify the "rock" instead of "chiseled"

GMATNinja daagh
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Hello, sislam04. I know you did not name me above, and I cannot speak for GMATNinja, but daagh will not be answering your call for help: there was a memorial in the forum for him a few weeks ago.

Since this question is fresh on my mind, I will say that centuries ago modifies the action of carving or chiseling the rock. The rock could be aeons old, for all we know. This is a case in which the modifier jumps back over the prepositional phrase. As for your sample sentences, you are right, in isolation, each one conveys just what you indicated. However, you left off the time marker at the end that would create a better analogue to the sentence at hand. We could not, for instance, write your first sentence with such information added:

These chairs are made from plastic in the 1970s.

Now, you could say that you melted down old plastic and used it to form a new chair, but even then, you would need to change the preposition from in to from:

These chairs are made from plastic from the 1970s.

I hope the point is made. If not, I would be happy to address any follow-up questions you may have.

Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 14 Dec 2020, 00:06
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sislam04
Can someone please help me understand my flaw in logic here:

"many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago" I understand the action of chiseling happened in the past that's why you're choosing it, but doesn't "were chiseled" also imply they're no longer around or that they're no longer chiseled?

If I point to chairs in my room and said the following:

"These chairs are made from plastic" ->They still exist in front of me and I'm stating a fact
"These chairs were made from plastic" -> They no longer exist as plastic


also doesn't "centuries ago" modify the "rock" instead of "chiseled"

GMATNinja daagh
Hello, sislam04. I know you did not name me above, and I cannot speak for GMATNinja, but daagh will not be answering your call for help: there was a memorial in the forum for him a few weeks ago.

Since this question is fresh on my mind, I will say that centuries ago modifies the action of carving or chiseling the rock. The rock could be aeons old, for all we know. This is a case in which the modifier jumps back over the prepositional phrase. As for your sample sentences, you are right, in isolation, each one conveys just what you indicated. However, you left off the time marker at the end that would create a better analogue to the sentence at hand. We could not, for instance, write your first sentence with such information added:

These chairs are made from plastic in the 1970s.

Now, you could say that you melted down old plastic and used it to form a new chair, but even then, you would need to change the preposition from in to from:

These chairs are made from plastic from the 1970s.

I hope the point is made. If not, I would be happy to address any follow-up questions you may have.

Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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Hi Andrew,

Upsetting to hear about his passing, ton of knowledge.

If you don’t mind I’d like to clarify a few more things. I usually overthink the simple past and I screw up and English isn’t my first language. So let me just be exact here:

“these chairs were made from plastic”
1) in the manufacturing process they were made from plastic material. Is it possible for these chairs to still exist or does the past tense exclude them from existing in the present?

And in a similar vein:

If I was present on those mountains and pointed to the structures and said
“Many of which are chiseled from stone...” > and didn’t have the time indicator for centuries, that would be correct right?

And lastly unrelated to the aforementioned.

In answer choice E the appositive phrase at the end is ambiguous because it describes the whole preceding clause but it can either refer to the mountains or the monasteries.

Best.

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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 14 Dec 2020, 08:45
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Hello again, sislam04. I will respond in-line below.
sislam04
Hi Andrew,

Upsetting to hear about his passing, ton of knowledge.

If you don’t mind I’d like to clarify a few more things. I usually overthink the simple past and I screw up and English isn’t my first language. So let me just be exact here:

“these chairs were made from plastic”
1) in the manufacturing process they were made from plastic material. Is it possible for these chairs to still exist or does the past tense exclude them from existing in the present?
Show more
Sure, the chairs can still exist. An understood you would be pointing to a few particular chairs, telling me, your audience, that the chairs I am looking upon were manufactured in the past. Is it wrong to say, "These chairs are made from plastic"? Not exactly, but I would expect a native speaker to use of instead of from. This sentence conveys something different from the earlier one, namely that you are commenting on a quality of the chairs in the present moment.

sislam04
And in a similar vein:

If I was present on those mountains and pointed to the structures and said
“Many of which are chiseled from stone...” > and didn’t have the time indicator for centuries, that would be correct right?
Show more
Of course. Leave off that extra information at the end, and there is no problem, just like the previous plastic chair example.

sislam04
And lastly unrelated to the aforementioned.

In answer choice E the appositive phrase at the end is ambiguous because it describes the whole preceding clause but it can either refer to the mountains or the monasteries.

Best.

Posted from my mobile device
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The context of the sentence steers the reader into the correct interpretation that monasteries, rather than mountainous regions, were chiseled from solid rock. Since mountains are composed of solid rock, it would not make sense to suggest that whole regions of them were chiseled from their contents. Anyway, some pronoun ambiguity is permissible on the GMAT™ in correct answers. (In terms of the strict grammar, yes, them is ambiguous.)

I hope that helps. Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 30 May 2021, 01:30
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daagh

1. Right: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF WHICH WERE only recently discovered.--

The question is whether the second part of this sentence is an IC or just a modifier clause. IMO, \it is an IC since we have a solid subject in 'many of which' and a solid verb in 'were'. The result is that this is rather a comma splice. In addition, the verb 'were' seems to be out of place here, since the first part is in the present tense and a present perfect such as 'have been' would have been better. However, tense may or may not a critical issue here. .

2. Right: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF THEM only recently discovered.

This seems to be correct since, the second part is a verbless phrase, simply modifying the touching noun 'particles'.

To extrapolate this to the issue at hand,

Show more



"some of which were"
its not an independent clause
its a dependant clause, so coma splice error cant apply here


check this question
https://gmatclub.com/forum/laos-has-a-l ... l#p2024352



daagh
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please explain
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 30 May 2021, 02:47
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I agree with your observation Shahalikhan.
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 11 Nov 2021, 07:53
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Just had a query about the option E. what is the verb in here?

many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago. Is it chiseled? If yes, is it logically correct? monasteries can't be doing this verb. Don't we need a verb here?
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 11 Nov 2021, 08:27
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Just had a query about the option E. what is the verb in here?

many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago. Is it chiseled? If yes, is it logically correct? monasteries can't be doing this verb. Don't we need a verb here?
Show more

Hello Soham68,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can resolve your doubt.

Here, "chiseled" is not an active verb; it is a past participle modifying the pronoun "them". As such, the use of "chiseled" is perfectly correct here, as it conveys that "them" - the monasteries - were chiseled by someone. The active verb is "are dotted", which acts upon the noun "regions".

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 12 Apr 2022, 03:00
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

Let's tackle this question, one thing at a time, and narrow down our options quickly so we know how to answer questions like this when they pop up on the GMAT! To begin, let's take a quick look at the question and highlight any major differences between the options in orange:

Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.

(A) Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.
(B) Chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with many hundreds of monasteries.
(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

After a quick glance over the options, there are a few things we can focus on:

1. Modifier Placement/Agreement
2. Verb Tense & Meaning: are dotted / are dotting ; chiseled / are chiseled
3. hundreds / many hundreds

Whenever you see an entire sentence underlined, it's a good sign that modifiers are one of the major problems! Let's make sure the modifier is placed next to its antecedent. To start, we need to ask ourselves the following question:

WHAT was chiseled out of solid rock centuries ago? --> Monasteries

Let's see how our options stack up:

(A) Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.
(B) Chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with many hundreds of monasteries.
(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

We can eliminate options A & B because the modifier is modifying "the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia" rather than the monasteries.

Now that we have it down to 3 options, let's tackle #2 on our list, which focuses mainly on verb tense/usage:

(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
This is INCORRECT because "are dotting" means that monasteries are still being built today, which isn't true.

(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
This is also INCORRECT because the present tense "are chiseled" doesn't work when talking about something that happened centuries ago!

(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
This is CORRECT because it's okay to say that Ethiopia is still dotted with monasteries, and it also clearly shows that they were "chiseled" in the past.


There you have it - option E is the correct choice! By focusing on common problems you find on the GMAT when the entire sentence is underlined, we were able to eliminate problematic options quickly and get to the correct one even quicker!


Don't study for the GMAT. Train for it.
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Dear EMPOWERgmatVerbal I have one doubt for D - The verb "are chiseled" can that not be used from a general fact pov ?
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 12 Apr 2022, 04:26
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

Let's tackle this question, one thing at a time, and narrow down our options quickly so we know how to answer questions like this when they pop up on the GMAT! To begin, let's take a quick look at the question and highlight any major differences between the options in orange:

Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.

(A) Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.
(B) Chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with many hundreds of monasteries.
(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

After a quick glance over the options, there are a few things we can focus on:

1. Modifier Placement/Agreement
2. Verb Tense & Meaning: are dotted / are dotting ; chiseled / are chiseled
3. hundreds / many hundreds

Whenever you see an entire sentence underlined, it's a good sign that modifiers are one of the major problems! Let's make sure the modifier is placed next to its antecedent. To start, we need to ask ourselves the following question:

WHAT was chiseled out of solid rock centuries ago? --> Monasteries

Let's see how our options stack up:

(A) Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.
(B) Chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with many hundreds of monasteries.
(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

We can eliminate options A & B because the modifier is modifying "the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia" rather than the monasteries.

Now that we have it down to 3 options, let's tackle #2 on our list, which focuses mainly on verb tense/usage:

(C) Hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, are dotting the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia.
This is INCORRECT because "are dotting" means that monasteries are still being built today, which isn't true.

(D) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of which are chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
This is also INCORRECT because the present tense "are chiseled" doesn't work when talking about something that happened centuries ago!

(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.
This is CORRECT because it's okay to say that Ethiopia is still dotted with monasteries, and it also clearly shows that they were "chiseled" in the past.


There you have it - option E is the correct choice! By focusing on common problems you find on the GMAT when the entire sentence is underlined, we were able to eliminate problematic options quickly and get to the correct one even quicker!


Don't study for the GMAT. Train for it.

Dear EMPOWERgmatVerbal I have one doubt for D - The verb "are chiseled" can that not be used from a general fact pov ?
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Hello KARISHMA315,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your question, verbs related to the formation or production of something refer to the act of making the thing, not to the thing's state of being; thus, in the simple present tense, these verbs refer to habitual actions.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 30 Aug 2022, 14:45
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.

(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

Chiseled is past participle / adjective right??
We can add "is" to chiseled and sentence makes sense
Now is it is past participle / adjective, then there will be no verb is the clause. However, we will need a verb for the sentence to be correct. In which cases is it ok for the part of sentence to be phrase and in which case it has to be clause???
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 30 Aug 2022, 14:46
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.

(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

Chiseled is past participle / adjective right??
We can add "is" to chiseled and sentence makes sense
Now is it is past participle / adjective, then there will be no verb is the clause. However, we will need a verb for the sentence to be correct. In which cases is it ok for the part of sentence to be phrase and in which case it has to be clause???
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 31 Aug 2022, 00:43
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Rickooreo


This is a tricky construction, but it shows up a fair amount in SC. We can start a noun modifier with a quantity term such as many/most/each before the main modifying phrase:

I wrote many poems, most of them bad.
We invested in three properties, each requiring extensive renovation.

Here's an official example I was just looking at:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/india-like-i ... 96089.html

As for clauses, we must follow the same rule as always. If we want a new clause, we need a connector--typically either a semicolon or a conjunction such as "and." We can't connect two independent clauses with a comma, as in "The regions are dotted with monasteries, many of them are chiseled." (But we do want ARE--not is--if the subject is MANY.)
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 31 Aug 2022, 08:22
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries.

(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

Chiseled is past participle / adjective right??
We can add "is" to chiseled and sentence makes sense
Now is it is past participle / adjective, then there will be no verb is the clause. However, we will need a verb for the sentence to be correct. In which cases is it ok for the part of sentence to be phrase and in which case it has to be clause???
Show more

Hello Rickooreo,

Hope you are doing good. I will be glad to help you with this one. :)

If we add the plural verb "are" before "chiseled," Choice E will have two independent clauses connected just by a comma. Is this structure correct? Not at all. So, we understand that the part after the comma is a noun modifier that modifies the preceding noun
"hundreds of monasteries." The use of this phrase is correct here because it presents the correct meaning, and the grammar is also correct.

You need to be mindful of the structure of the sentence to make that decision whether we need a clause or a phrase to present the intended logical meaning. The modifier that we see in Choice E can be classified as Noun + Noun Modifier. We wrote a detailed article on the same that is super popular. Here is the link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-noun-modifiers-the-most-versatile-modifier-137292.html

This article will surely help you understand such modifiers' structure and function. In the thread, you will also see many official questions that use this structure.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 02 Sep 2022, 00:26
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Rickooreo
(E) The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia are dotted with hundreds of monasteries, many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago.

Chiseled is past participle / adjective right??
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Correct.


In which cases is it ok for the part of sentence to be phrase and in which case it has to be clause???[/quote]

Well.. Above all, you need to make sure that the entire overall structure is a grammatically valid sentence. Accordingly, there needs to be a main clause—with a subject and verb—around which the sentence is built. (This basic grammatical foundation can also consist of two main clauses, hooked together by a conjunction such as and or but.)

Modifiers can be attached to the main framework.
• Some modifiers, such as the one built around "chiseled" (a participle) here, aren't whole clauses, not having their own subjects and verbs.
• Other modifiers, such as those introduced by a relative pronoun (e.g., which or that), are also clauses with subjects and verbs, but are still modifiers that need to be attached to a main clause to be properly grammatical—you can't start an entire sentence with the relative pronoun Which!

Knowing the differences between the two kinds of modifiers above will take a certain amount of exposure and practice—which will sear the different types into your longer-term functional memory—but this won't be an exceptionally laborious or high-volume memory task, as there aren't that many different kinds of these modifiers. Just make sure you understand how the modifiers in any given correct sentence work, and that you can recognize the same type of modifier going forward.
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 09 Jul 2023, 10:54
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Hi,

How is this not a case of -ed modifier?
"(many of them) chiseled from solid rock centuries ago" is modifying the subject of the main clause - "The mountainous regions of northern Ethiopia". Or at least, there's ambiguity.

What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance!
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Many of them chiseled from solid rock centuries ago, the mountainous 05 Oct 2023, 19:25
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Between D and E, there is a Tense issue in D
centuries ago. - time clue to use past
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