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Thanks for the post bb.

I know this is definitely THE CHANGE which the GMAT audience was looking for!

However, it comes with its own challenges, specifically for individuals who have practiced the regular way and are going to appear for GMAT in some time.

Whatever strategy an individual wants to prefer, he/she needs to ensure that they practice couple of mocs in that specific order and see if it really suites their side. If your date is close, I would suggest not to experiment as it can impact your score.

I would prefer one of the below strategy.

1. V >> Q >> IR >> AWA

2. Q >> V >> IR >> AWA



The reason for above two is your brain will still remain fresh (relatively) for Quant or Verbal as IR And AWA are not eating up the brain power at the beginning.

So, what choice are you going to prefer 1 or 2 or the regular one?

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Thanks bb.

I intend to take the test after July 11th, and take advantage of the new format, because I have observed that if I jump into solving the Quant section directly, without IR and AWA, I usually perform better, since I haven't spent my mind of IR. Quant is a challenge for me.

If I intend to take the test, in the following format: quant - verbal - IR - AWA...30 minutes before the test, I won't have access to any quizzes/notes, because we're asked to lock our belongings and sit idle for a few minutes before they call us for identity confirmation. Do you think - thinking of timing strategies, counting numbers backwards, thinking of general quant topics that are a challenge to me(these are some things I could think of immediately)...should be enough to keep my mind warmed up? Will look up other things too, but any insight from you would be valuable.

Quote:
While the algorithm that MGMAT and Veritas Prep use may not be the same as that of GMAT prep or Official GMAT, their scores are consistent and if you can spot yourself scoring higher from test to test, this approach will work.

What is the possibility that GMAC itself has changed its scoring algorithm altogether? :| Did it make any hints at this? I did read that they will be releasing a book in 2018, with advanced quant questions. So Quant being the real challenge for me, is it possible that they've made the questions tougher in both sections from July 11th onward? I understand that it's an adaptive test. Let's consider that they've made the test 20% tougher. What is the possibility of them considering, from July 11th onward, a 690 level question as a 580 level question, a 580 level question as a 460 level question, and so on. Please let me know if it is stupid on my part to even think of something like this.

If they haven't changed the scoring algorithm and difficulty level of the questions, then the efforts I put in with the resources I currently have should be enough for me to do well.

I am in a flow state now, taking CATs and reviewing and working on topics that need fine tuning, it will be ideal for me to take the test mid July. I am just hoping they don't make any changes to the scoring algorithm and difficulty level. :/
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I took an MGMAT CAT a few days ago to try one of the 2 options for section order. I selected the V-Q-IR-AWA order thinking that I can get a higher than usual V score than the original order.

I got lower scores in both V and Q. Note that this was the first time taking this CAT and I compared the results with another CAT I took (also first time).

From my performance and after looking back at the mistakes I did and how I generally "felt" during the exams. I concluded that my lower scores in both important sections came down to the following reasons:

1-Taking the V directly and without proper warm-up. I came across some difficult questions only after 20-25 mins from the start. It took me longer than usual to answer CR and even RC questions. While I didn't like taking the Verbal section right at the end of my previous CATs, taking the V straight away did not do me any favors. It was difficult getting into the rhythm of things and I felt quite tired after this section. This leads to my second point...

2-Even though I usually do better in the Quant section I felt that it was taking me longer to add sums, solve simple equations and visualize geometric shapes/diagrams. What struck me was that I NEVER had to take a Q section after a V section. This is true as all my previous CATs and GMAT attempts involved taking Q before V. I felt that this felt unnatural to me and that something was wrong. It's a funny feeling to get during the test. Also, I felt that while taking the V first, the skills and logic behind the V don't necessarily help you for Q. However, I feel that the Q "logic" and reasoning come in very helpful in a lot of CR questions (esp. strengthen, weaken and assumption type questions).

I will take another test in the other order. I am also planning to take GMATClub tests and try Q-V and V-Q order to gauge my results and how comfortable I am taking these tests.

I think for someone like me, who gets lower scores in V (30-35) than in Q (48-49) it is better to take the stronger section first. Get it out of the way and use it as a warmup for the weaker V section. Also it is more practical to warmup for the Q if you are indeed taking it first (like someone suggested). Try by listing prime numbers, squares and cubes. You could also prime factorize large numbers. You do not need a pen and paper for this as you could easily do it in your head. Anything helps really just as long as you use mental math skills.
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should be enough to keep my mind warmed up? Will look up other things too, but any insight from you would be valuable.
I am not sure yet. It will probably be different for diff folks. I know for me, I would have to be both time-constrained and challenged to really get to the "performance" section of my brain and sometimes it is a challenge.

Quote:
What is the possibility that GMAC itself has changed its scoring algorithm altogether? :| Did it make any hints at this?
No indication of any scoring changes have been made. The scoring algorithm is a pretty sensitive and ultra complex topic, and unless they really had to go there, I doubt they did.

Quote:
If they haven't changed the scoring algorithm and difficulty level of the questions, then the efforts I put in with the resources I currently have should be enough for me to do well.
I am in a flow state now, taking CATs and reviewing and working on topics that need fine tuning, it will be ideal for me to take the test mid July. I am just hoping they don't make any changes to the scoring algorithm and difficulty level. :/

I am pretty sure you are safe to rely on your current resources. Ultimately you are taking the test with all other test-takers and you are all relying on the same resources out there. Worst case, you can take the test "old-school" style, starting with AWA and IR ;-)
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This is interesting stuff! I will be taking my first MGMAT (tests updated to have a custom order) test this weekend. My plan is to do Q,V,IR, AWA.

The reasoning behind my order is as follows; easier to warm up (mental math); I prefer math over verbal ; given that high V score weighs a bit more, I should hit a peak performance during this section ; hoping to feel good about Q, which should give me a psychological boost.

Given that this is my very first full GMAT practice test, I could be wrong on all my assumptions! Anyhow, I look forward to reading a few follow ups from above. Feedback is crucial here :)

I will report how it went. Best of luck to all of us!
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Hi bb ,

I gave a Manhattan mock yesterday(Verbal then quant) and ended up with some improvement in my verbal score.

But my Quant score was reduced by two points, probably because I got one question of 300-500 level and 36 questions of 700+ level (Many were 750+ actually).

My concern is: Do you think I should practice with the same approach or try the other sequence also (Quant then Verbal).

I have to give my exam in another 30 days now, so I really don't want to waste my time on something not required. Please provide your inputs.

Thanks
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The other interesting observation/fact I noticed over the years, esp the pre-IR years, is that everyone was doing CAT's and skipping IR/AWA on their practice tests. Probably not realizing that this approach was actually providing them with lower practice test scores than they would have gotten at the test center (my challenge to them was to practice the whole test with IR and AWA to improve their stamina but now GMAC research seems to indicate that they were actually better off practicing without AWA - go figure!)

So far from feedback, the "cold" test seems to be a real deal and probably something to avoid until you are comfortable with the new section order.
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Hi bb ,

I gave a Manhattan mock yesterday(Verbal then quant) and ended up with some improvement in my verbal score.
But my Quant score was reduced by two points, probably because I got one question of 300-500 level and 36 questions of 700+ level (Many were 750+ actually).

My concern is: Do you think I should practice with the same approach or try the other sequence also (Quant then Verbal).
I have to give my exam in another 30 days now, so I really don't want to waste my time on something not required. Please provide your inputs.

Thanks

While I believe that moving the sections around in the new test order can give 10 and maybe even as much as 20 points to the final score, I also feel it is just as easy to lose those 10 and 20 points (that's what the research is telling us). Thus you definitely do not want to lose 20 points on the test. I think it is up to each test taker to evaluate where they stand in terms of risk of the loss and if this change/warm up concept is too much of a hassle, I would stick to the original order.

You still have some time to take a few tests in a several sequences to try it out and test it out. However, I would encourage to keep experimentation on the low side while everyone is still exploring and gathering hard evidence (until proven, it is only a theory):

My suggestion for most taking the test soon would be:
1. Take a test with normal flow.
2. In 2 days try to warm up and take the test in the new order (Q or V first)
3. Decide which worked better for you and stick to that plan.
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While I believe that moving the sections around in the new test order can give 10 and maybe even as much as 20 points to the final score, I also feel it is just as easy to lose those 10 and 20 points (that's what the research is telling us). Thus you definitely do not want to lose 20 points on the test. I think it is up to each test taker to evaluate where they stand in terms of risk of the loss and if this change/warm up concept is too much of a hassle, I would stick to the original order.

You still have some time to take a few tests in a several sequences to try it out and test it out. However, I would encourage to keep experimentation on the low side while everyone is still exploring and gathering hard evidence (until proven, it is only a theory):

My suggestion for most taking the test soon would be:
1. Take a test with normal flow.
2. In 2 days try to warm up and take the test in the new order (Q or V first)
3. Decide which worked better for you and stick to that plan.

Thank you. I actually gave the normal flow test last Sunday and then yesterday. I could see my verbal score got improved by 4 points just because of this difference.

So, I think I should try the same sequence 1 or 2 more times and see where am I standing. I am worried for the decrease in my Quant score by 2 points. May be its the so called Manhattan (Tough Quant).

The sad thing is I cannot do this experimentation on the official mocks before 31st July(I am not gonna wait until then). :cry:
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abhimahna
Hi bb ,

I gave a Manhattan mock yesterday(Verbal then quant) and ended up with some improvement in my verbal score.

But my Quant score was reduced by two points, probably because I got one question of 300-500 level and 36 questions of 700+ level (Many were 750+ actually).

My concern is: Do you think I should practice with the same approach or try the other sequence also (Quant then Verbal).

I have to give my exam in another 30 days now, so I really don't want to waste my time on something not required. Please provide your inputs.

Thanks


Hi abhimahna, considering you have been practicing with the old sequence of GMAT you have around 30 days for your exam, it would be worth doing some more experiments. One or two mocs are not sufficient to tell which sequence suites to you.

After couple more mocs, you will naturally feel comfortable with one format and that should reflect on your score as well. Hope this helps, wish you all the best for your prep.
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abhimahna

The sad thing is I cannot do this experimentation on the official mocks before 31st July(I am not gonna wait until then). :cry:

If MGMAT did their software update in a few days I am sure the official mocks could be done the same way - maybe if enough people complain about it they will speed it up. July 31st seems very late.. I plan on taking the test mid-August and this presents a dilemma on practice routines because their official test is not up to speed yet. Kind of annoying.
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abhimahna

The sad thing is I cannot do this experimentation on the official mocks before 31st July(I am not gonna wait until then). :cry:

If MGMAT did their software update in a few days I am sure the official mocks could be done the same way - maybe if enough people complain about it they will speed it up. July 31st seems very late.. I plan on taking the test mid-August and this presents a dilemma on practice routines because their official test is not up to speed yet. Kind of annoying.

Here's what you could do. I'm trying this on Sunday.

You could take a GMAT PREP CAT and skip through the AWA and IR. It is important that you don't look at any of the questions. You could also ask a friend to just click away. After the last question of the IR is skipped, YOU take over and take the test from Q just as normal and then take your 8 min break and do the V.

Once you are done with V section go back and "answer" the IR section. For this you have to write down your answers on a sheet of paper as you will be in review mode. Then immediately write the AWA essay.

This way you simulated the Q-V-IR-AWA order. Note that this doesn't work for the V-Q-IR-AWA.

This works because neither the IR nor AWA make up the 800 score. So this score will be made up of your Q and V sectional scores. You will not get an IR score (0 or 1) but at this stage of preparation you would be more interested in your 800 score. You can use this to gauge your test stamina for the IR and AWA sections.

I believe that this is offers a nice solution to the problem. I do agree that GMAC have disappointed in failing to update their software to include these changes. All other major test prep companies have already done so (MGMAT, Veritas and Kaplan) so why not GMAC?
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What is the possibility that GMAC itself has changed its scoring algorithm altogether? :| Did it make any hints at this? I did read that they will be releasing a book in 2018, with advanced quant questions. So Quant being the real challenge for me, is it possible that they've made the questions tougher in both sections from July 11th onward? I understand that it's an adaptive test. Let's consider that they've made the test 20% tougher. What is the possibility of them considering, from July 11th onward, a 690 level question as a 580 level question, a 580 level question as a 460 level question, and so on.
That's not really how it works. The GMAT doesn't need any more space at the high end of the scale to measure (let's say) something like an 810 or 850. 760 is the 99th percentile, and there is enough "headroom" above that. This is a test for people interested in management programs, not rocket scientists :)

Given that the GMAT doesn't need to create any further differentiation among test takers, the only impact of what you are suggesting would be to bring average scores down. Now, it is one of the core objectives of the GMAT to ensure that scores are comparable across the years (at the minimum, across 5 years or so). If they weren't, a test taker taking a "tougher" GMAT would be at a disadvantage: there would be others sending in applications with scores obtained earlier.

So you can rest assured that the GMAT hasn't changed that drastically, and the new OG they're planning (remember, it's still in just the planning stage) has nothing to do with the selection of content for the exam itself.
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Great post bb! And a much needed one.
I have planned to go for V-Q format, as I tend to give up on RC with an exhausted mind! Quant tends to wake up a sleepy soul, I believed. So this sequence should be helpful. I will be taking MGMATs soon with the updated formats.
Hope for the best!

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Will it help to Indian & Chinese test-takers who are generally non-natives for the last part of test i.e. Verbal?
It may increase the verbal score if taken early
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Will it help to Indian & Chinese test-takers who are generally non-natives for the last part of test i.e. Verbal?
It may increase the verbal score if taken early

Hello yogya82, Dont think that it will be limited to Indian or Chinese audience only, GMAT Verbal is not easy even for native speakers. But yes, there is an expectation that the verbal scores may rise (though it depends upon your performance on that day).

Considering India's and Chinese are strong in Quant, not sure if this means that average overall GMAT scores may rise :roll:
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Hi bb

It is a great detailed post and I like your analysis around this. While most of the test takers are taking verbal first because almost all of them, including me, have suffered from mental fatigue. There have been very few who have taken QVIA. It seems like more of a knee jerk phase where almost everyone is exploring VQIA.

I have taken GMAT Club quant tests in the past coming in cold and I think I managed it quite OK. It may vary from individual to individual, but it is definitely a tantalizing prospect to try Quant first.
But I also feel a lot of it will depend on the mental state that one is in, on the exam day. It has always been the case. Many of us prepared with the older format taking N number of tests only to find themselves fatigued by 3/4th of exam was over. A lot of analysis will surely flow from experts and other users who have actually tried various combinations. I, too, am scheduled to take some mock tests later in the week. I will also post my findings soon.
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